Secession: On Dunces, Cowards, And Courage


Read.

Compare this mainstream scoffing.

Now consider deeply Tom Baugh’s recent comment:

A million now? Nice.

A long time ago, the USMC sent me to the Xerox sales school in Leesburg as part of the training for recruiting duty. One of the interesting tidbits was that Bell/ATT did a study on customer satisfaction, and found that for every person who will lodge a complaint about a product or service, another nine or so people are equally unsatisfied but don’t bother telling the vendor about it (politeness, too busy, found something else already, et c., or in some cases, fear).

So, it is reasonable to assume that as many as ten million people are dissatisfied enough to consider the secession issue to one degree or another. Even a conservative (pun intended) estimate might be between two to four million people.

Still a small number overall, but here is the fun part. How many people do those two to four million people touch? And one level away, those people? This could grow exponentially in unexpected ways. And each time this bubble touches a “connector” the number takes a huge leap. Or become solidified as the bubble comes at them from different sides.

Recommended action item of the day: find the connectors around you in meatspace. These are the people who seem to know everyone, such as the owner of the feed store where people hang out all day. Then, help this secession bubble (and other related bubbles often discussed on these sites) touch them. In essence, become the connector for all the connectors you know.

Remember, in the case of this “product”, secession itself doesn’t even have to happen to have a throttling effect on government excesses. The mere thought of it in the public space is a powerful disincentive as it shows that there is a limit, however ill-defined, to what will be deemed as acceptable. Secession, as with jury nullification, was worth so much to stamp out that it took generations of propaganda and flag pledging to choke these ideas out, and looky looky how fast this one is coming back.

But if it does happen, well, then, bonus…

And don’t forget, “Oh, Mr. Connector, have you heard about jury nullification?”

Tom

To be clear, I do not believe that there is a snowball’s chance that Leviathan will recant and grant subsidiarity to American citizens.

More’s the better.

The more Leviathan and its priest-class squeezes Joe Sixpack and Mary Goodmom, the more Joe and Mary become susceptible to reason, as opposed to their long-standing statist indoctrination and habit.

Reason-based questions such as:

Who owns you?

Who owns your children?

Who owns your property?

Why do you think others claim ownership over you, your children, and your property?

What is this thing called “society”, and what impact does it have on you?

If others do claim ownership or control over you, your children, and/or your property, is that claim legitimate, or is it simply based on force?

Must you obey the law? Every law? If not some, how do you decide which to obey and which to defy?

What promises have been made to you by these people who claim power over you?

Are they keeping those promises?

How do these people get their money to do what they say they are doing?

What did the Founders mean mean they approved this language from the Declaration of Independence?

…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security…

Insert more questions in comments.

The objective is not to turn Joe and Mary into fire-breathing, tyrant-slaying revolutionaries today.

The goal instead is to expand the number of people are calling Bravo Sierra on a corrupt and collapsing social order.

Secession from tyranny begins within each individual.

And the significance of the White House petitions?

More and more people are making that first transition into a broader world.

Help drive those transitions.

Be a Connector.

Resist.

73 responses to “Secession: On Dunces, Cowards, And Courage

  1. Michael Downing

    My wife brought up the petitions on secesion the other night and said my 17 year old son had brought the subject up with her. Up to that point I had not mentioned the petitions nor the fact that I signed the one for NC immediately after Randy posted it. I asked her if it had been a subject in school and what Nate had to say about it. She said that Nate made it known that his father thought that there was something deeply wrong in the direction the country was going and that he was sure his father would not only support secession but fight for it if it meant setting things right. I told them both that I had indeed signed the petition and I believed that secession was going to happen by choice or by inevitablity after the collpase comes. Looks like my son knows his father pretty well. I remember the day a coupel years ago when he asked me what would happen if they ever came for our guns. I told him that I would make a stand and I would never let them take them willingly. He smiled and said you will not stand alone.

    Glenn Beck and all the bothers are wrong. The War between the States settled nothing. It just proved that sometimes tryanny wins and gets to interpret history as they wish. But sometimes the deeds of tyrannts can be undone and next time history may be told differently. Remember the line from Braveheart…
    ” I shall tell you of William Wallace. Historians from England will say I am a liar, but history is written by those who have hanged heroes.”

    • Another Anon

      I am not sure I want succession but I am not sure I can have my view of the union either so I am waiting . I still have some time and so do we all I think.

      That being said, you should ask the Weavers how well that defensive individualist stuff works. If it comes to confiscation or whatever , FreeFor has to take the fight home to the enemy and his own or be picked off one by one. Build a network now while you can and if enough people do this, if OpFor gets stupid and tries something they’ll will leave well enough alone or at least can pay a hideous price.

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        Another Anon/19Nov12@14:44,

        “I am not sure I want succession but I am not sure I can have my view of the union either so I am waiting.”

        That’s roughly what Claire Wolfe wrote, AA, & as you’ve seen you have a lot of company, including me. The rest of your comment’s dead on. The ‘happy medium’ (imo) is to follow that old & still wise saying ‘hope for the best while preparing for the worst’ as such gives you options either way.

        Cassandra (of Troy)

    • Obviously, the gov won’t allow secession, they can’t lose the tax revenue. Equally obvious is the fact that this country is coming apart along fairly historical lines. Break up might be better than a war, but either way , the “revolution” will be grassroots cultural rather than voting a savior into office to fix things. There are no political players on our side.

    • Amen, MD. Amen. And thanks to CA for the good sense to see that our first job is to “Help drive those transitions.” …However that may be done. When it comes to action, it seems to me our first roadblock is the compulsion to over-think everything. My God, there’s a lot of that going on with this question of secession – at the moment far more than is sufficient to choke it off entirely. Maybe that should change.

  2. Glenn Beck, to put it nicely, is a moron. He admitted on his show that he only started reading books and magazines five years ago.

    It was particularly reprehensible for him to hijack the Tea Party movement with his idiotic 9/12 movement and recast it as .. a homage to MLK. Really? *THAT* is what’s wrong with America? Not enough worship of MLK’s corpse?

    This could almost lead one to believe he is a paid disruption agent, because before and without him the Tea Party had on it’s own come up with the most effective mass-movement critiquing the liberal state that anyone has seen in a few generations. It was focused almost completely on fiscal issues, tax issues, and high level cultural issues like immigration. Beck confused all that with his retarded faux-spiritualism. (The man is a born-again Mormon, need I say more?)

    A pox on Glenn Beck. If I meet him I’m going to bitch slap him and challenge him to a duel. He’s scum.

    • alan w. mullenax

      Thank you Jackson. That’s a fair perspective and one that I will consider.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “It was particularly reprehensible for him to hijack the Tea Party movement with his idiotic 9/12 movement and recast it as .. a homage to MLK. Really? *THAT* is what’s wrong with America? Not enough worship of MLK’s corpse?”

      Yeah. I do wish people would remember that the famous speech was called “I Have A *Dream*”. King never said that any of the United Colors of Benetton stuff was ever actually going to happen, just that he hoped it would be possible some day.

      Reality is not the dream. Instead, it is as Lee Kuan Yew, former Prime Minister of Singapore, said: “In multiracial societies, you don’t vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion.”

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        Jimmy the Saint/19Nov12@15:18,

        I thought a lot of MLK for quite awhile, still like that speech, good thoughts. But then his rep went to his head culminating in his claim that “America is the most violent country on Earth”, which was an interesting statement considering the well publicized plight of multi-millions behind the Iron & Bamboo Curtains as well as those languishing down in Cuba that he kinda ‘overlooked’. Then he started making asinine noises about guns being a scourge in America/causing violence in the ‘bleck cuhmmunehteh’/similar claptrap, & downplaying/excusing black violence while emphasizing the ‘white’ version. That seems to be the pattern w/ people & nations.

        Pity.

        Cassandra (of Troy)

    • Semper Fi, 0321

      Glen Beck isn’t the moron, it’s the people who look to him as an authority figure. He’s just another TV personality who feeds the masses the kind of shit they want to ingest.
      The Josef Goebbels School of Broadcasting has paved the way in which today’s media operates, the masses refuse to acknowledge that they are being fed state sponsored garbage. ‘Fair and balanced’ truly is a diet choice.

    • Someone had to say it… Glad you did! That was one of the most accurate comments I’ve read in quit a while. Hell you even get bonus points for “Best Line of the day” — “If I meet him I’m going to bitch slap him and challenge him to a duel”. … Ha Ha

  3. Just because you’re a yellow coward, Aesop,doesn’t mean everyone else is one. Since you lack the intestinal fortitude to even encourage those who at the least, will speak up in a tyrants face, I imagine your masters over at Huffpo are eagerly awaiting your report. Fifth column much?

    • alan w. mullenax

      Uh huh.

    • Aesop – I have made many seemingly useless gestures of resistance in my life to try to stick my finger in the eye of those who would see Liberty crushed under the boot of tyranny. I have attended armed Restore the Constitution rallies and PATCONS. I continue to send emails to my so called representatives even if they fall on deaf ears. I have taken part in presenting emergency preparation seminars and work with local food banks and speak up for Liberty publicly at these events and in my daily interaction with people. We have prepared our tribe and built a network and continue to do so.
      I have nothing to hide and have used my real name for quite sometime on line and in all my communications. I have done nothing illegal and believe that sedition is protected by the constitution and in fact is called for by the declaration when as a people we have suffered too long under the fist of tyranny.
      Do I believe that signing a petition on the DC website will resolve anything. Absolutely not. But if it rubs those in power wrong and causes them the slightest irritation at all then it is well worth the effort. To those who think it makes the signers a target all I can say if you are not a target already you must be living in a bubble or you just visit these sites to piss and moan.
      I have made my opinion clear for some time now and I do believe the people will either embrace secession by choice prior to the coming collapse or by necessity after the collapse comes. I for one am just glad that it is no longer in the shadows and even if spoken about with disgust at least it is being discussed. If at first you don’t secede; try, try again…

  4. This weekend I will visit the outdoor range I shoot at sometimes. On my way home I will stop off at a little cemetary a few miles from there. I will find the grave of my Great great grandfather veteran of the 4th Ga infantry ’62 to ’65 until his capture outside of Petersburg. I will say a little prayer for him and leave him a little sip of Scotch. I will ask him to watch over me and mine. I do not think that I will physically follow in his footsteps through the fields and forests of Virginia and Penn, I do however feel that I will be following his spirit.

  5. Funny, I started to do what Tom just suggested the other day, without even knowing I had done it. Funny how that works.

  6. As I’ve posted several times, I know of no one that is working on secession in a serious way that is hunkering down in a “compound” in some remote location.

    The South Carolina Nullification Committee met and we’ll have the results of that in a couple of weeks. Our nullification is the first of several steps enroute to secession.

    I shouldn’t have to do this, but apparently there are a number of historically challenged that post here. The American Patriots worked on the secession from Britain for well over 20 years before they generated the results they wanted. Below is one example of actions they took that were well beyond civil disobedience and signing petitions, which they did as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasp%C3%A9e_Affair

    • Josey Montana

      Pat, not only did it take (more than) twenty years, they built on a history of de facto independence current United States persons do not have nor wish.

      The historic American nation, with adoptees, first has to see itself as a bloc with its own interests separate from the United States persons that feed off it.

      Then and only then can secession — or better restoration — take place.

      Right now, you have a “red” United States at war with itself, internecine combat putting civil war reenactor Southerns against SAR/DAR Yankees let alone the loud minority of militant non-Christians against everyone else.

      We must solidify that common identity before any forward progress can be made politically. Some of the fringe on our side is going to have to talk itself back down to reality; our core must stop sleep walking through life; and we’ve all got to realize “The Left” mainly hates us because they know damned well they and their immigrant grandpappies neither earned nor deserved the great gift of living with the Americans.

      Until that time — circular firing squad and the alien among us will rise higher and higher. Women and children shall lead us.

      Just sayin.

    • Norwegian Max Manus and one associate sank the 9000 ton German liner, SS Donau, in January 1945.

      While I don’t personally own limpet mines, there could be some that do or will own them.

      The first rule is never say never.

  7. outlawpatriot

    Yeah Pat, we’re all historically challenged.

    Good thing we got you.

    Back to one of my original questions. What is the process by which South Carolina is going to secede? The entire process please. And I want you to leave out your state legislature voting for such a thing. Won’t happen. South Carolina has more than it’s share of of individuals on the federal tit. No fucking way that will ever happen.

    I’m open to the concept. Please explain it to me.

  8. Uh, is anyone else seeing what I am seeing? In this and previous posts, Sean, oughtsix, Alan, Pat Hines, Russ, Sandman, Rhodes, AP, me, and a half-dozen or so other similar personalities (on this and their own sites) are taking stands on the same side of an issue, with opinions ranging from “nominally supportive with exceptions” through “goofy, but we can use it”, to “HELL YEAH!”?

    (if I’ve misinterpreted someone, my apologies, and no offense if I’ve omitted anyone but the list makes the point as it is.)

    I’m hearing double-click acks all over this “net” and related backchannels.

    This alone should be sending OpFor into a WTF Fred G. Sanford moment. I’m sure they’ve noticed given some of the traffic patterns seen. Damage control is trying to keep up, even derailing initiatives previously in-progress. This one is definitely inside the loop and is affecting priorities.

    CPX Foxtrot showed that coordinated yet decentralized action along a narrow axis, despite OpFor action, was theoretically possible as an abstract concept. Here is a live-fire confirmation, gentlemen.

    Tom

    • “Living in their heads, rent free,” as a good man once put it.

      Thanks, to M VDB.

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        oughtsix/20Nov12@00:24,

        That line came from Limbaugh (who likely stole it from someone else) & was later appropriated by Glenn Beck.

        Cassandra (of Troy)

        • I got it from Mike Vanderbeough, to whom I am forever indebted for leading me… here. A good man of towering courage, fortitude, insight, perseverance and honesty, and, by far, one of the best writers in this or any other venue.

          Gainsay me to your peril. I live by the feud.

          (Not you, personally, Cass. That last was directed to persons hereabouts who know full well who they are….)

    • That is progress but there is still a problem.
      Now what?
      Yes we are all talking and more or less agreeing that while this exercise is mostly symbolic it is getting the topic into mainstream conversation.
      So now that there are cracks in the wall how do we expand them to a point of explotation?

      • ^ THIS

      • I deal with failure mechanisms for a living, most often in steels.

        Sometimes, stresses can cause a surface crack to occur, and, having relieved the tension in the material, no further damage occurs. The stress is relieved

        Most often though, especially in the case of environment/chemically induced stress corrosion cracking, a crack is the culmination of many microscopic microfissures spread throughout the base material. Most often, the stresses that initiate a crack (or cracks) are enough to eventually propagate them into catastrophic failure.

        This is the case with us- and this entity known as the US. There is little we can do to change, speed up, or slow the course of things. The stresses and microfissures are already in place. The outcome is simple physics and math. What cannot fly will fall.

        Knowing what is coming, we prepare to thrive afterwards. This theme is being circulated far and wide, and not just through this corner of the blogosphere.

        It’s a long game, really.

        AP

        • I disagree with this AP.
          I think there are things that can be done I am just unsure what those things are at the moment. It may be that this petition act is not the action that induces the cascading response. It may be the next action or the one following it. Somewhere along this line of actions and reactions there will be a point that things drop out quickly. This has the ball moving but there has to be more to nudge it along. I ask that we think on it and see if we can determine the next action.
          Memes can be started by very small groups and if they have an addictive quality they will spread very quickly. That spread can be facilitated by modern social networks and sooner than soon even mainstream soccer moms are doing stupid dances or parlor tricks. If they are extreamly popular they inspire one-upmanship and the next thing you know we have a wildfire. Look at how Occupy achieved household name status.

        • Cassandra (of Troy)

          Arctic Patriot/20Nov12@13:06,

          Good analogy, AP, but the questions are what kind of failure those stresses will cause & what the results will be.

          “It’s a long game, really.”

          Unless someone/something makes it a short one which, as you know, has historical precedent.

          Cassandra (of Troy)

      • Like freeze/thaw, it may be slow but the result is certain… meanwhile, keep adding gravel to the gears…

    • alan w. mullenax

      Tom, make no mistake. I believe secession to be absolutely the dumbest fucking idea of the moment. I am a strict constituionalist and I love this country, it’s flag, it’s history and it’s culture despite all the warts. It’s my country, I served it for a significant portion of my life and I have nothing but contempt for those that would attempt to bring it down and/or divide it up.

      I challenge Hines only because he has so often slammed my Constitution, blaming it for all the present ills. And I question his motives. Fuck Pat Hines.

      Are we clear?

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        alan w. mullenax/20Nov12@15:02,

        “F*** Pat Hines.”

        You sure about that, awm? Didn’t get the impression you went that way but that’s your biz, just remember to take the appropriate precautions, wash thoroughly afterward, & get regular medical checkups. The way things are these days one needs to be careful, so be responsible & wear a ‘raincoat’ when you play.

        The above health recommendation was presented as a public service by the undersigned & neither condones nor condemns the carnal activities of consenting adults. Thank you for your attention.

        Cassandra (of Troy)
        MSc/P.H.

    • Cassandra (of Troy)

      Tom Baugh/19Nov12@18:00,

      If this thing starts showing the potential for ‘negative’ socio-political re-alignment that CCW reform/the ‘Castle Doctrine’/’Stand Your Ground’ laws spawned for the 2A & the Imperium response stays true to form, expect the same tactics used against pro-2A proponents (‘spontaneous’ mass shootings, foiled/successful ‘violent militia’ plots, etc.) to be repeated & amplified w/ the addtn of the racial angle.

      Should that fail, escalation up to/including attacks on/’assassinations’ of local/state/national Imperium functionaries (the Emperor also) & LE are very likely to follow w/ even more emphasis on color & political affiliation (including homeschoolers, preppers, similar ‘anti-social reactionaries’) combined w/ a concerted push for invocation of ‘temporary emergency’ measures (gun bans, NDAA, NDPA, etc.) ‘to combat this threat to Our Democracy’. And when that point’s reached, if not well before then, we’ll find out whether or not Americans have the guts to use the hardware they’ve bought/training they’ve received to fight back against dictatorship.

      Right now I’m not all that confident that they would w/o a concurrent military revolt against the Imperium/its allies as a ‘call to arms’.

      Cassandra (of Troy)

  9. Even Great fires start from small sparks.
    I don’t know if the petitions, or talk will do anything, but then it might.
    All I know is where I stand. They are violating the Constitution, and stole the last election. Stalin was right “It is not who votes that counts, it is who counts the vote.” I know some of the areas in Cleveland did not vote 100% for Obama. I know people who live there and voted for Romney.
    We are taking another little step toward confrontation with the petitions, and that is the right direction to be moving.
    I know where I will stand. I will do the right thing, because it is right, no matter what some communist scum in Washington D.C. says.

  10. Is it just me or does it seem like someone pee’ed in Aesop’s Post toasties as a child — and now he is systematically trying to do the same to all 7,052,999,999 left in the world? Go figure…

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  12. Hey Aesop, do you have a plan or merely criticisms for everyone else’s? What’s that saying again? Oh yeah, “Lead, follow, or get out of the way”. Pick one Aesop. Hang your plan out there for everyone else to shoot holes in for once.

    • alan w. mullenax

      Uh huh.

    • Aesop…”and blogs like this draw federal agents and fucktards like a movie theatre skylight, from miles around.”

      Then stay away, dope! If its that dangerous, stay away.
      Good grief.
      We’re supposed to think youre smart?

    • Colorado Pete

      Yep.
      Wish I had more $.

    • You must have constipation too, cuz you’ve surely been holding that back! Sorry to break it to you, but I think that all made great sense…at least in principle. In detail, each person has to figure out his own best way to reach other people, local or otherwise. Some may find it in political Parties, some might find it business, in Church, at the Bingo hall, whatever.

      Do we gotta wait another month for something that good?

    • alan w. mullenax

      And now you diminish God.

      God was integral to the establishment of this country. It is through Him that we have come as far as we have. Our trials are a result of us forgetting that fact.

      Keep on wise man.

    • Are you, honestly, doing ANY of that? You know, other than post? No man alive could possibly fulfill all/half those criteria, except in a comments thread.

      Ye gads, but we’re unworthy.

      Ya know, I’ve been trying, and I’m not alone, to get you to temper your tirades with just a little humility, in order that they might be better received. The reason for this is that, sometimes, you write something useful. But where is the utility in something inaccessible due to its effrontery?

      Oh, yes, I know… if we were half your intellectual equals, and sincere, your condescending, dismissive, bitter and arrogant manner wouldn’t matter… your shattering insights would destroy our insipid delusions and reduce us to acolytes.

      You’d make a good tyrant.

      • So no mistake… the above is addressed to Aesop.

      • Um, not so long ago, most Americans did most of this stuff just to stay alive. They were serious, hard individuals; mostly grown up by 12 years of age. Unfortunately, most of the stuff most present day folks spend time and energy on are merely slowing down the herd. If we really intend to reboot this show, we will need to get way serious and quit wasting our lives on 99% of the crap that many live for these days (think TV, in particular.) Or maybe I’m crazy…time will tell…

        • Semper Fi, 0321

          Great point. Most of these folks won’t get it either. Heads too far up Glen Becks ass.
          I’ve lived places that didn’t have TV 30 yrs ago, electricity 50 yrs ago, all you have to do it practice how your grandparents lived in the rural areas, and you got it made. It’s not that hard to do, pull your head away from the TV, stop worshiping electronic toys, they’ll kill you in the end anyway. Counting on your laptop to save you, or regurgitate info when there’s no more electricity really makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it? Learn how people lived in the 1930’s and practice turning off the electric shit once in awhile.
          Then work on your military skills in the same way.
          And if nothing happens, what have you lost? Learning some new skills?

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        Aesop/21Nov12@13:07,

        While I agree that the secession petitions are largely something whose practical effect’ll be zilch, I approve of them as a ‘fair warning’ to the Imperium/its allies about the level of opposition to their intentions for this country & that said opposition’s willing to make such a declaration publicly just like the Founders Satisfies my definition of honorable behavior in that it places the onus on the Imperium/its allies should its next step be martial which just might cause an open general revolt.

        If the petitions get only derision from the Imperium/its allies no harm’s done, if they cause the Imperium/its allies actual discomfort w/o a violent response again no harm’s done, but should the petitions make the Imperium/its allies get physical, then imo the forms of honor have been observed & whatever happens afterward is the fault of the party that initiated violence. Time will tell whether the effort’s frivolously fruitless or genuinely serious, either way it doesn’t necessarily mean that the participants will be diverted from more concrete endeavors.

        Regarding the hostile response to your suggestions for productive activities, it’s puzzling as parts are what’s been repeatedly proposed by others as smart things to do to prepare for what may well turn out to be a politico-economic s***storm. The comments about your tone have some validity imo, your tendency to attack instead of engage is rather offensive & to preclude accusations of hypocrisy I fully admit that I also do that from time to time but I’m trying to restrain the urge & have (I hope) made some progress. You need to ease up, Aesop, I know that you’re well aware that many of the comments on this/similar sites are what Michael Downing characterized as “chest bumping testosterone pumping rhetoric” & so shouldn’t set you off w/ the recent jazz about Cal/those from there being one example.

        You, me, JtS, & others in the P.D.R.C. know much of that stuff’s (imo) simple BS which at minimum warrants the written equivalent of a head shake & at maximum a guffaw, the 32oz ball-peen shots to the forehead you regularly respond w/ are excessive & make you look just as bad as the utterer. I’ve seen your output & it shows that you can do better, Aesop, so remember Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 & leave the reflexive vitriol to others.

        Or not, a**hole.
        ;~>

        Cassandra (of Troy)

        • Don’t plead to “subtlety.” First of all, you’re not very subtle.

          Beyond that, though, you miss the point. The point is NOT whether, “Kill everyone, and let God sort them out,” is any sort of brilliant plan, in either principle or detail.

          The point is what IS a brilliant plan, and how does one go about getting one. You offer absolutely nothing of substance on this beyond, “Keep doing what got us here in the first place.” Sorry, but that plan is as foolish as the one you’re knocking. And really, as I already noted, even more foolish insofar as it doesn’t even IMAGINE the ultimate goal. IOW it’s a foolish goal designed to be implemented by foolish means.

          Were I not so subtle myself, I could think of some flaming ways to describe both that plan and its devisor.

      • alan w. mullenax

        Uh huh.

  13. Ah, a Ping back from the “outlaw” rooting for truffles where none can be found.

  14. Aesop-

    There is a term than Glen Beck uses, and because he uses it, I hate to. I do not like Glen Beck. Not one little bit.

    The concept is called “Overton window”. Four years ago, the “Overton window” was nowhere near open talk of secession. Now it is on national media. It does not matter how nonsensical, rational, realistic, or plausible it is. Not one bit. The point is that a gigantic shift is occuring, at least among one part of the population. The other portion of the population is going the other direction.

    I have said for a long time that an Obama victory would be the best possible thing for “our side”, however defined. No, I did not vote for him. You would not have had secession petitions, discussions, and dreams and conversations with a Romney win.

    As the window shifts, it drags other things along with it. People. Opinions. What is “possible”. What is forever impossible. This is not going to end anywhere pleasant. I pray that I might shoulder my part faithfully.

    Secession-talk is a symptom or indicator of something going on at a deeper level in society.

    Of course secession is impossible right now; perhaps forever. Any secession right now would be instantly crushed through the shutoff of senior benefits, SS, entitlements, and through agancies such as the DOT, DOA, DOE, etc. No guns necessary. Kill entitlements, and immediately the dependent class burns the seceeding states’ cities to the ground.

    It is movement. Notice that I did not say “progress”. Movement. People who would have shrugged their shoulders and smiled at politics a few years back can be heard saying things that were unspeakable four-six years ago.

    It is a long game, I think.

    AP

    • Michael Downing

      A long game indeed, AP. Many will do the right thing just because it is right and those same people do it everyday because it is right not because there is somone watching or because there is a reward to do so. The reward is inherent in doing the right thing no matter what the outcome.

      As I said secession is being openly discussed and that is a good thing. I signed that petition for that reason. Many are becoming aware that the divide amongst us is just too great to ever be bridged. The road will be long and hard but we must travel it well…

      James 1:2

      Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,

      John 16:33

      “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.”

    • No Aesop. Emotion is not at play here. Where did that come from?

      How many people signed secession petitions ten years ago?

      We have the same numbers on American Idol; little increase. We’re somewhere around a million times increase on the secession bit.

      Not that I think this will lead to secession, as I said before.

  15. There always seems to be a lot of chest bumping testosterone pumping rhetoric that surfaces between so called members of the Patriot community over disagreements in methods, timing, actions or inaction. I have seen too often civil discourse disappear and name calling transition into feuds between individuals with others then picking sides. At times it seems to me that the enemies of Liberty have little to fear from such an unorganized group but perhaps in the end that can be as much of an advantage as a disadvantage as long as we remember one thing…

    James 4: 7-11

    7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

    8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

    9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

    10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

    11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

    That is all I have to say and will take leave of this discussion such as it is…

    • Colorado Pete

      Yup.
      When I joined Project Appleseed, I was told, “The first rule is, check your ego at the door. It’s not about you, it’s about the mission.”

      Too many thin skins and big egos out there, along with demands for ideological purity over commonality of purpose. Not to mention great lack of maturity.

      None of us are perfect, none of us has the one brilliant idea. Either we set aside petty differences, act like grown-ups, and all pull our oars in the same direction, or we go over the falls.

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        Colorado Pete/21Nov12@12:38,

        An accurate assessment of the situation w/ a succinct recommendation for remediation. Keep that up & pretty soon you’ll be accused of being a bossy jerk, CP, which I know will cause deep distress due to your obvious emotional fragility. You’re gonna have to either buck up or shut up, CP, that’s just the way it is whether you like it or not.

        Cassandra (of Troy)

  16. There will be no grey area.You either are or are not.There is no argument once it goes from cold to hot.There will be no ROEs from either side.Forget all politics,it is useless and has been.There was no choice.It is all a lie.Period.If the recent “election” has not hammered that home you are either seriously deluded or beyond hope.Respond in rebuttal to that statement and you prove it.History,that was then this is now.Face it.It is here.No govt.or nation state has ever amassed such power and not used it against the very people who voted and paid for it.You are witness to it.It is useless to discuss it any further.There is no “law”.Constitutionaly,secession is done through each individual states government.It is useless to poke the tyrant in the eye at this stage.It may make one “feel good”,yay.Vote for the 3rd party candidate to “feel good”,yay.My team won!yay.My team lost,cry.Make a “statement”.All useless.They laugh at you.They have spat in your face repeatedly.It started once before the same way.Obviously there was a bad outcome,thats why we are here.History again dead and putrid.There is not a way to “discourse”out of this.Patriots,put aside your egos and pettiness.Provacateurs will surely out themselves.Soon you will not be arguing and taking offense from those that matter.At our level we train,we prepare.We watch and wait.Do not fall into the snare of this or that cult or static mindset.Build your family,strengthen it and recognize the benefit of minor differences.Those with no resolve or honor will be known quickly enough.The world as we knew it has left,let it go.Do what you can with what you have every day where you are. The founding documents are timeless,they will one day be fully restored if it is Gods will.I pray we will all live to see it.I mean to offend no one personally with this post,but if you are so be it.I will leave with this,read and reread Patrick Henrys speech in its entirety,until you understand.

  17. Cassandra (of Troy)

    Here’s some more scoffing.:

    James Madison, Rick Perry Quash Secesh Talk
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/james_madison_rick_perry_quash_secesh_talk.html

    The Secession Obsession
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/11/the_secession_obsession.html

    Interesting how similar the Right & Left’s opinions & verbiage are about this occurrence, kinda like what happens when ‘those gun people’ ‘get uppity’ & demand that promises made be kept. Nobody likes a peasant who won’t stay in its place.

    At last, BIPARTISANSHIP!

    Cassandra (of Troy)

    • Rarely do you see a single sentence with so much that is wrong, and so much corrosive mischief. I am speechless.

      • “I’m trying to see a downside to that.”

        Lemme help, then. The claim was plainly that there is a correlation between what a whole bunch of people say, and the truth of the matter. In your words, “They’re probably correct in their appraisal.”

        That’s pure “consensus as truth” bullshit. According to you, the Earth was probably flat when every person alive believed that it was. No wonder you like the idea of voting so much, as if Democracy is the way to free ourselves of Democracy.

        • alan w. mullenax

          uh huh.

        • Stick a fork in Aesop, he’s done to turn!

          Skewered. Spitted.

          Brilliant, Mon. le Grunt de Monte Cristo, and the inestimable JK.

          Just to pile on, since when do the best ideas come from the multitude?
          Is not all of human innovation the sum of the genius of but a comparatively few individuals?

    • Cassandra (of Troy)

      Aesop/22Nov12@22:27,

      Note that such is the opinion of most of the Right’s ‘leadership’ about pro-2A people & was/is reflected by the Lee Atwater Doctrine,:

      “Sit down, Shut up, & vote Republican, you have nowhere else to go”.

      The above was related to me by the late Neal Knox in a phone conversation, that was the point where my exit from the Republicrat party began & the designation of Prince George Bush 1st as the heir to Ronaldus Maximus Reagan completed the separation. Since then, the divide’s gone well beyond the A.U. range & is rapidly approaching parsec courtesy of such as Hannity, Kristol, Barnes, Krauthammer, & similar pseudo-conservatives. I have this strange antipathy to being shat upon then told I should be grateful for the attention, a personality defect no doubt.

      Cassandra (of Troy)

  18. Cassandra (of Troy)

    The Imperium Ministry of Public Information/N.E. Division takes note of restiveness among the serfs.:

    With Stickers, a Petition and Even a Middle Name, Secession Fever Hits Texas
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/24/us/politics/with-stickers-a-petition-and-even-a-middle-name-secession-fever-hits-texas.html?hp&_r=o
    (From Vox Day)

    Then there’s this take on secession.:

    Secession – Distraction or Trap?
    http://www.henrymakow.com/secession-talk-is-a-hoax.html
    (From a commenter at Vox Day’s site)

    AHA, Ye are EXPOSED ye NWO/corporatist tools!

    Cassandra (of Troy)