WRSA State Of The Union Forum: Where We Are, How We Got Here, & Where We Are Going

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UPDATE 1500 EST 5 FEBRUARY 2013: Many thanks to our panelists and our audience. To accommodate folks, we are going to keep the comments going through tomorrow at least and the end of this week at the latest. Moderation will be as frequent as we can make it.

Please make sure to consider purchasing our participants’ books (if you haven’t already). You will find them all well worth your time and study.

Welcome!

I am deeply indebted to our panelists today, who have taken time from their busy lives to share their thoughts on America, circa 2013, with the WRSA readership. Comments are enabled through midnight tonight and will be moderated as quickly as possible during the interactive portion of this exercise, which will end at approximately 3 pm est today. Folks on East Coast time should remember that some of our panel is in different time zones.

They are (in utterly random order):

- David Codrea (DC): David is a Field Editor for GUNS Magazine, writes the National Gun Rights Examiner column and blogs at The War on Guns: Notes from the Resistance. He is a twenty-plus year veteran gun rights advocate. If he wanted to be successful, he’d be writing about Justin Bieber and Kim Kardashian.

- Mike Garand (MG) and Jack Lawson (JL) are former Special Operations unit combat veterans who were involved with rapid response Airborne and Heliborne Counter Insurgency Units, overseeing perimeter protection, training and providing bodyguard services in conflicts of Africa, Iraq and Afghanistan. They are the authors of “A Failure Of Civility”, a “how to” guide to protecting you, your family, your neighborhood, your community, and America in time of disaster and civil unrest.

Mike Garand holds a Bachelor of Arts Degree and a Master of Science Degree in Urban Studies with an emphasis on Criminal Justice. He has spent much of his life in the U.S. Military as a Marine and Special Forces Soldier and is retired from the U.S. Army Reserve. He is also a retired Detective from a major metropolitan police department. He has worked for years as a Contractor for the largest and most well known of the American private military companies, providing training and security services worldwide. He has seen service numerous times during the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mike is a member of a U.S. Army Special Forces Association chapter.

Jack Lawson served in the United States Air Force and was also a member of a Foreign Legion counter insurgency unit during an anti-communist guerilla war in Africa. He was trained by British Commonwealth SAS and Israeli commando instructors and took part in counter insurgency operations and commando raids on communist training camps in a number of African countries. While there he became a bodyguard for a farmer’s association in his off duty time. Jack is an Honorary Member of a U.S. Army Special Forces Association chapter and for seven years served on a metropolitan police department Review Board that judged Officer Involved Shootings and use of deadly force incidents. He was also a consultant to the United States Marine Corps on heliborne vertical envelopment and anti-terrorist tactics. He has authored two other books. “Slaver’s Wheel” is available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble and all major bookstores. “A Question of Time” is available on Kindle.

- T.L. Davis (TL) is the author of “The Constitutionalist” and publishes the “TL In Exile” liberty blog. He is a proud descendant of Kentucky pioneers.

- Claire Wolfe (CW) is a free-market anarchist author and columnist. She blogs at Backwoods Home Magazine, and is a contributor at SWAT Magazine. Some of her favored topics are gulching or homesteading, firearms, homeschooling, open source technology, and opposition to national ID and the surveillance state or nanny state. She is the author of “The Freedom Outlaw’s Handbook – 179 Things To Do ‘Til The Revolution“, “Don’t Shoot The Bastards (Yet)“, “The Bad Attitude Guide To Good Citizenship“, and “Think Free To Live Free“, among other classics.

Matt Bracken (MB) is a self-described freedom addict who loves ocean sailing above all for the pure freedom it often permits. He lives with his family in North Florida and longs for the wide blue ocean. Matt is a constitutional hardliner (and frequent WRSA contributor) who believes in the original intent of the founding fathers of our country, and is the author of the Enemies Foreign And Domestic trilogy, along with his latest novel, Castigo Cay. Matt was born in Baltimore, Maryland in 1957 and graduated from the University of Virginia in 1979 with a degree in Russian Studies. He was commissioned in the US Navy through the NROTC program at UVA, and then graduated from Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training class 105 in Coronado California. Matt served on east coast UDT and SEAL teams, taking a Naval Special Warfare detachment to Beirut in 1983. Matt left active duty after Lebanon, upon completion of his obligated military service, but he remained in an active reserve status through the remainder of the 1980s. Since then he has lived in Florida, Virginia, South Carolina, Guam, and California. In 1993, Matt finished building a 48-foot steel sailing cutter of his own design, on which he has done extensive ocean cruising, including a solo voyage 9,000 miles from Panama to Guam and two Panama Canal transits.

With intros out of the way, we’ll turn to the questions. For simplicity, I have taken each panelist’s initial response and placed it under each question, using their initials. From there, we’ll go to moderated comments between the panelists and the audience:

1) Where are the citizens of the United States today — not just in terms of guns, but all personal freedoms and their relationship with government at all levels?

DC: We are slaves. The advantage the poor bastards being driven with whips to build pyramids and pick cotton had over us is they at least knew they were slaves. Most of our countrymen operate under the illusion they are “free.” Our freedoms and comforts are what are tolerated and the restraints are what can be placed on us without rupturing the illusion and risking a rebellion.

TL: I think a majority, even if a thin one, sees the government as a threat to their freedoms and liberties. I think because of TSA they feel bullied a little bit and discouraged, but I don’t think they really know what to do about it.

CW: There are no more citizens.

We are, at best, subjects. At worst, we are enemies — and not enemies by our own choice, but by the choice of the state. The federal government chose to spy on us without warrants. They chose to decree their right to kill us or lock us up without due process. They chose to send militarized police to kick down our doors. They chose to destroy the Bill of Rights. They chose to enable and coddle the Wall Street looters who destroyed (and are continuing to destroy) the country’s economy. And now they’re choosing, once again, to push their same-old-same-old agenda to disarm us.

A “government of the people” doesn’t do any of that to citizens. Only to subjects or enemies.

At the same time, of course, the government choses to grant various boons — everything from food stamps to giving people official consent to relationships that are none of the government’s business in the first place.

So for the moment, I’d say the country is becoming more deeply divided between three factions: government and its cronies; pampered but vulnerable subjects; and an increasingly angry minority who see to the heart of all this.

2) How did we get there?

DC: We gave others power over ourselves and did not watch them. So they started abusing the trust, pretty much from Day One. Thing is, the clock really wasn’t reset at “0” after the War of the Rebellion–they had players back then who knew how to game the system. It’s always been that way.

TL: I think while there are a lot of historical avenues to this condition that go back as far as the Civil War, or War Between the States, it started to come to a head in the mid-90’s with Clinton and HW Bush, but the confrontation with fedgov was dulled by the over-reaching of Timothy McVeigh and as he was part of the resistance of the time distancing the militia orgs from him took a long toll.

In more recent times, however, was the passing of the Patriot Act and the economic collapse have led us to a point where the Constitution has been subverted consistently over a condensed period of time. First to keep us safe from terrorists that never seem to get the attention they deserve and then to “violate the free market to save it,” in George Bush’s words.

CW: Boy, how many volumes do you want to publish?

But if I had to give a simple summation, I’d say two things: 1) the normal human tendency to think everything is okay (until it’s seriously not) and 2) government schooling.

Very handy, being able to plant exactly what you want in the minds of the young and impressionable. “We’re the freest country in the world” and all that. “Your government is good and just and will always take care of you,” etc.

3) Why did citizens allow American government — be it local/state/national — to grow the way it has?

DC: Because they had farms to work, trades to ply, shops to tend and bellies to fill, and because the average moral person who doesn’t look to control anyone but himself finds the desire to tell others what to do alien. Society specializes–we can’t all be dentists and plumbers and engineers or administrators. So the specialists do it and we do our thing and it’s all supposed to work with checks and balances, except we come back to those with ambition who specialize in gaming the system and working it to their advantage– no individual can possibly keep tabs on it, and those we trust to monitor things have agendas of their own. Plus, most people just don’t give a damn about things that are outside their sphere.

TL: Fear. Also, so many things seem out of our reach. The only options seem to be to take it or die trying to resist it, so it grew and grew as we took every abuse they had to dish out. I think the fear of drug gangs put some people on the back seat, thinking the police needed the material and expanded powers to deal with the threat of drugs and gangs, but those things never seem to get addressed. I don’t remember the last time the government went after any of the national gangs, or even the local ones in inner cities.

CW: Wrong question. It’s a fallacy to say that citizens allowed it.

Of course, millions of people bear some fault — maybe a lot of fault. People wanted the goodies dangled before us. People believed that the federal government, being “the best in the world” (see government schooling, earlier answer) would never do anything seriously wrong. And of course, millions of people v*te based not on real knowledge, but on impressions.

But look at how many of the really cancerous parts of government grew in secret. How many spy agencies and evil programs existed for years before their deeds were uncovered? What power do any of us have over bureaucracies? How many people cast reasonably educated v*tes — merely to find that the people they voted for acted differently in office than they promised on the campaign trail?

I know that “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” But frankly, that’s insane.

People have personal lives. We have our own interests. And we SHOULD. Those things should be our first priorities. If the only way to prevent government abuse was really to spend our entire lives peering intently at governments and fighting, fighting, fighting every wrong that some sneaky, scabrous bastard in a vast class of sneaky, scabrous bastards might be planning … well, that would be ridiculous! How free would we actually be if we felt compelled to live like that? We would be slaves to the governing class even more than we are now, just in a different way.

The fact is that government, like any institution, serves its own interests. Centralized government will keep growing until it can’t grow any more. And citizens aren’t going to prevent that growth by wasting their entire lives believing that somehow, if everybody could just be more vigilant, government would become “good.”

The only way in which “we” really are responsible for the growth of government is in our failure to grok that any institution that functions by stealing our money and threatening us with violence could ever be “good.”

4) What’s next — for government leaders, government workers, private sector companies, and individual citizens?

DC: Beats the hell out of me. And I’m skeptical of anyone who is certain a scenario will unfold just like they’ve predicted. I’ve never met an oracle.

TL: For the large majority of these people it will be business as usual. The government will impose laws and everyone will figure out somehow to comply with them.

CW: Pain and struggle. Creativity. Outlaw networks developing and growing, online and off. Free markets developing alongside tightly controlled ones. Interesting times — in the sense of the Chinese curse.

5) When do these issues come to a head?

DC: I don’t think there will be one head–there will be tripwires/flashpoints for individuals. Everyone has different tolerance levels and different motivating factors. I see a bunch of little rivulets joining together to form a stream and then a torrent as they happen more or less simultaneously. I also think that the more common the catalyst, the quicker and more forcefully that will happen.

TL: I think it is when we find out a way to resist without our message being lost. When one action can can be identified by others as consistent with the overall goal of restoring the Constitution, or at least the rights recognized and codified by it.

CW: When Joe or Josie Average — or at least the more aware among the J. Average segment of the population — feels more pain than he or she is willing to bear.

I suspect the trigger will be economic. But certainly firearms issues will drive millions of otherwise complacent individuals away from any love of government. The current push to disarm us is laying the groundwork for broader, stronger resistance to government tyranny, in whatever form it comes.

And you never know what could serve as a trigger. The whole Arab world burst into flame when one obscure fruit vendor set himself on fire. Right now, the hacker world is on the verge of rounding on the government because one of their own — young, promising, brilliant Aaron Swartz — was driven to suicide by a maniacal federal prosecutor. There’s a lot of crossover between hackers and gun owners. Interesting alliances could develop, creating movements no one can now guess at.

Are you looking for a date? My crystal ball doesn’t give those. The world is too complex. But if I had to guess, late 2014 seems possible.

6) Who wins, and why?

DC: I don’t know. Define “win.” Do we restore the Articles of Confederation? Do we end up with fractured regional tyrannies? Warlords? Who is authorized to negotiate a peace on your behalf? What if I don’t agree? I’m reminded of the “Table of Damascus” scene from the movie “Lawrence of Arabia”.

TL: The American people ultimately will win over this tyrannical government. How many lives are lost and how far the government is willing to go to provide that final point of revulsion that loses the support of the people is the real question.

CW: Nobody. That’s my glib answer.

A more thoughtful answer was provided in 1942 by John Steinbeck in his short novel (and play) “The Moon is Down.” One of his characters, who was about to die, told his murderer:

“The people don’t like to be conquered, sir, and so they will not be. Free men cannot start a war, but once it is started, they can fight on in defeat. Herd men, followers of a leader, cannot do that, and so it is always the herd men who win battles and the free men who win wars. You will find that is so, sir.”

I think that about says it. If tyrannical government “wins” any inevitable coming confrontation, the suffering for all of us will be intense. We may face years, decades, of hardship, oppression, and death. But free people always prevail over those who believe in central control.

7) What are your top 3 “next steps” suggestions for readers?

DC: 1. Take care of Number One. Put your own oxygen mask on first. I’m neither smart nor prescient enough to come up with 2 and 3. If you’ve done 1, hopefully you’ll be as adaptable as possible for whatever arises.

TL: Prepare your finances and conditions for your families to go on without you. Prepare yourself to take the necessary steps to resist, i.e. physical conditioning, mental preparation. Look for a way to strike back at the government in a way that directly opposes the illegal laws they have passed so that the purpose, to any rational individual, cannot be denied.

CW: 1. I’ll bet this is pretty much what everybody else will say: buy guns, gold, silver, and food. Be ready for hard times, for catastrophes large and small.

2. Even more important, develop a mindset of independence, even if your circumstances make you vulnerable or physically dependent. Be flexible and clever.

3. If you have kids, either get them away from government schools or help them develop skepticism about what they’re told in those schools.

4. (Because I’m an anarchist and don’t have to stop at three just because somebody else says so :-) ) — never give up your guns. And don’t just sit around posturing and boasting about how you won’t give them up. Think about how you’ll resist. How you’ll protect your firearms. How you’ll make or get new ones if the old get stolen. How you’ll pass your guns down to children or grandchildren. How you’ll ensure your ammo supplies. Whether you’re willing to shoot any thug who tries to take your “liberty’s teeth.” How you’ll live in a world that treats you as a criminal when you know you’re really one of the good guys. And BE FLEXIBLE. BE CLEVER about that as about all other things.

5. (Yep, anarchist.) Understand that you have to grant other people their freedom if you want them to respect yours.

Thanks to the panelists for those initial comments; others will be jumping in as the day continues.

Let’s start the interaction with a question to our speakers and audience alike:

What is your best advice for newbies to the fight for freedom in America?

UPDATE 1155 EST 5 FEB 2013: Moderation is been lightened (I think), and I am now able to keep more real-time approvals going. Be patient with your editor :-) and our participants, who are doing this task on top of everything else they are doing today. Thanks for your readership as always.

346 responses to “WRSA State Of The Union Forum: Where We Are, How We Got Here, & Where We Are Going

  1. Should work now. Ain’t live stage work fun? :-)

  2. My response to the question: Get a group together, people you trust. Talk to them and get organized. But, not so much “run, shoot, communicate”. Understand where we are. Each person needs to understand their “line” and they need to understand the kind of fight we’re in. (For instance, is this a civil war? a revolution? Is this both?)- I personally believe it is both and there are more “lines”. There are so many brain washed (Ok, indoctrinated) Americans out there that finding people who aren’t going to see you as a threat is going to be a hard thing to do.

    We’re having meetings with locals in my area. We’re looking at resistance, we’re looking at “getting the word out” to resist, and we’re looking at supporting our local sheriff when the time comes – assuming he continues to support us.

    • I agree wholeheartedly with the small local group thing. Ive been working on the same and heres 3 basic things we came away from our first group meet with: 1. Get everyone caught up and on the same page with whats going on and where we are now, and get evryone educated on a basic level on the founding documents, founders etc and make sure everyone has a solid grasp of the long train of abuses. 2. Resistance- exhaust every legal means along with non compliance and begin distribution of the resistance message. 3. Get prepared physically and mentally- get your kit squared away, get right with God, and be ready to walk out the door and never come back any day now. Im no expert but theres my. 02

    • This comment made me think about something ‘new’ to me. It may be necessary to have one small group to defend at home and / or ‘get out of town’ – but they may not be the people you’d want to share your bunker or retreat with. Maybe not even the location – for, you know, whatever reasons. You may want to provide a safe compound that is primarily for family, e.g., but not have family close enough.

      I have a few friends I’d trust and like to have at my safe location, but they don’t live nearby. So I need to either manage to get out alone, or find a few local friends who would all help each other get out when necessary.

    • Everyone thinks they’ll have time to get to their safe location,or have their friends meet somewhere to form a resistance,I GOT NEWS FOR ALL OF YOU,they are going to do a surprise attack on you,using the foreign military,the police gangs you trust so well,WHO by the way have already stabed you in the back,and when this war is over there will be very few of you left,THEY PLAN TO KILL EVERYONE,..and when you get that through your head,then and only then will you have a fighting chance,this whole country was SOLD to china by the BANKERS last year,and they want the country “BUT THEY DON’T WANT YOU” this is going to be a bloodbath and there’s no other way to describe it,SO few will realize the real truth of whats going to happen,a great many patroits will be lost,OPEN your eyes WIDE,understand,they will throw everything they have at you…….things you never knew they had…………….

      • Ok.

        So what’s the next step that readers should take, having read your post?

        • concerned american,watch the old movie RED DAWN then muiliply that by a hundred and then you’ll have an idea whats about to happen,I can scream,get ready all day long,gold and silver won’t be worth anything for a hundred years,but bullets and beans will hold you over ,america is about to return to the 1850’s like it or not,think about that! then ask yourself what their life was like,and what you don’t have,if you live near the coast,don’t worry about it…………….

      • I don’t think we are as blind as you think. Most of us know which way this goes, but until someone does something to us, or something happens to spark us we are watching. Or, are we just supposed to go off and start popping people? If so, who, where, when?

      • Arizona; Many of us work with, in or for the government, or have spent time in there. I think we’ve much more awareness than you’re giving us credit for having.

        I do agree on one point… there’s a kind of strangeness to our lives today when it comes to China and Russia (one of the things I track is what those guys are doing). We (my group) firmly believes Communism has never died in Russia, and China and Russia are firmly entrenched in their beliefs that the United States must fall. And this ‘strangeness’ I mentioned is the current (and some past) administrations to give freedoms to those countries within our own borders – and some how to be in collusion with them in the fall of this great Country.

        I won’t discount the possibility that we will get invaded, or the UN might be used against us (using foreign troops) but I suspect we as a nation WILL rise up against them, as a whole. There will be some who go to the “other side” but as a whole, Americans will not stand for an external invasion.

        Our government understands this; and I think they won’t give into the temptation to allow it. They’d rather control us other ways.

      • butchcass223

        We owe we owe, its off to war we go. An planned invasion and a little bang bang in the US and the bankersters tell China to f*off. Obummer and his Moaist pals are the first ones they screw over. They dont want him either he is a tool to the end game.

        • China will not invade. Logistics would bankrupt them. Would our government betray us all and try to cover that shortfall?- maybe. But we are legion, and they are only a few million employees total, and that assumes all of them support that agenda, not ours, and that none of them decide to sit it out. It means that even those frail 60 year old secretaries have to go to war against their neighbors and grandkids. Agency employees, and local LEOs who want to side with Big Brother need to remember that they live among us, and will have no homes to go to and will endanger their families by their treason. Kids talk, so our kids know whose dad is a fed or a cop – and where they live.

          Over all, I’d say the ‘sale’ of the US to China won’t happen. It could only happen if we allow the new owners to move in, and we won’t. Can they buy corporate stocks and assets? THAT is something different. But we don’t have to accept any change in our government, don’t have to accept any change in our legal systems, and will not accept any diminishment of the Constitution nor of our natural, God-given rights – the Bill of Rights. So what are they going to do? They’re going to suck it up and go back to trying to run the world from Beijing is what. Big deal.

          • Or bring over 10 million girl-less pissed-off Chinese young men after basic and AIT, telling them to kill the men and the women are theirs.

            • Yeah. Funny. I thought this was a serious venue….

              • The last 04 with whom I discussed that scenario replied, “I’m pretty sure we don’t have that much ammunition.”

                Read up on what happens with societies that have too many unmarried men.

                Especially if their strategic enemy’s neighbors invite those young men into their countries as “border stabilization peacekeepers”.

                Then go read up on the PRC’s ties with Canada and Mexico.

                • So you’re serious? So was I. I really doubt China has the money to move that many men here, not to mention that we’d be killing them as they arrived unless they could dump them all on Malibu beach at one time. And you only need to drop the plane on approach to the landing strip to kill that entire load. They can’t ship them in containers by boat, so how do you envision they will get them all here at one time? Do you really think there isn’t a sub commander in the entire US Navy who wouldn’t sink those boats until he ran out of munitions or food, regardless of ‘orders’?

                  And really, if they come, what happens? We fight, we kill them, in the end it’s a guerrilla war on our turf, and they are bankrupted just like we are now from fighting that same kind of war in Afghanistan or were after VietNam. They win nothing. The further inland they go, the more their asses are exposed. The more of us they kill, the more will pick up guns. The Nazis nearly starved to death outside Moscow for that very reason – and that was before the Russians sprayed them all with water in mid-winter and froze them to the ground. What will they eat? We’d burn our crops before they got to them. You think they might steal from our grocery stores? What Teamster would make a delivery to any grocery within 50 miles of those guys? (Some of you may not like unions, but if you served I can guarantee that some of your teammates are union members today. Do you really think they all turned Commie on you?)

                  I don’t know about you, but I know how to make melee weapons from scrap in the woods and dumpsters, so if they by some wild stretch of imagination manage to confiscate all my guns before I can bury them, I’ll make weapons, kill one of them and steal his SKS or whatever they use now, and use that to get another for a friend, etc. It worked for Fidel, it’ll work for us.

                  And by the way, you give our women zero credit dude, and that is a mistake. Do you not think they will fight too, if for no reason other that to prevent that ‘take all the women’ thing? Do you think any American woman will tolerate being raped and kept as a ‘wife’ afterward without cutting his throat some night? I’ve known a lot of women over the years and I never met one that weak.

                  Could I be wrong? Sure, but so can you. And you won’t convince me to be afraid while I can still assess probabilities. I may change my mind, but it will happen when I see them coming, not because you say they will come – unless you want to admit to being part of the planning for that invasion. Even if I did change my mind to your thinking today, that has nothing to do whatsoever with the decision the Chinese government will make about whether or not they try to invade us. I think they will make the decision on practical items – like HOW to do this, and how much will it cost, and what would be the risks vs. the possible benefits.

                  So I suppose we can stop exchanging ideas now, and just wait to see. I’ve really got too much work to do getting ready for the future and finding a job now to be spending this much time thinking in print anyway. And just by the way, I’ll be fighting along side you (well, technically on the same side as you since we don’t know each other and it’s a big country) regardless of this little difference in our abilities to predict the future, when it comes to fighting for America.

      • This nation is so geographically large, foreign invaders would have an extremely hard time “killing everyone”. Logistics from China or Russia in large enough quantities to support the number of troops just to occupy this nation, let alone overtake us militarily, would be completely impossible one would think. This ain’t Hong Kong.

    • The proverbial “line in the sand” is a myth. It is based on a faulty understanding of when Lieutenant Colonel William Travis drew a line in the sand with his sword at the Alamo (Texas Revolution, 1836). You must keep in mind that the Alamo was literally a last stand; considering battlefield conditions, the Texians who chose to stay knew that realistically they were going to be killed by Santa Anna’s army. On a normal daily basis, we do not experience “last stands,” therefore, the line in the sand concept is inapplicable.

      What this also means is that those who oh-so-bravely thump their chest and declare that such-and-such bad thing is their personal “line in the sand,” simply just want to project the illusion to other people that they are somehow dedicated to the principles of Liberty; even those who sincerely wargame a variety of scenarios ahead of time fall victim to what is essentially an erroneous idea. There is no way to know for certain how you will act in a life or death situation ahead of time; the only way to know for certain is to experience it firsthand. The problem here, especially with those survivalists who “prep” for when the “SHTF,” is that what everyone in the Patriot Community is passively anticipating is the modern day equivalent of what happened on the Lexington Commons (American War for Independence, 1775).

      The sad truth of the matter is that this mythical notion of the “line in the sand” is used primarily as an excuse for inaction. A case in point is the typical fear about a “declaration of marital law.” Why have a condition of martial law when you have a surveillance police state apparatus? The self-trickery going on here is that the “line in the sand” (particularly as applied to a “declaration of martial law”) is set upon something that will not further the interests of the enemy rebel government, thereby pushing the responsibility for good people to act far into some… indeterminate future. How convenient, isn’t it? Notice all the focus on things like that instead on the responsibility to act now against a real and present threat, such as the police state. But that would place the necessity to act and risk incarceration (or worse) in the here and now for those who are able to secure their liberties, wouldn’t it? And we can’t have that now, can we?

      • Interesting, Salsa. Do you have a post developing this line? I’d link it in a heartbeat.

      • Nice point. This is not an 18th Century war between European gentlemen speaking the common language of the educated elite (Latin) who agree that killing leaders on either side is a bad idea, but having armies slaughter each other is a fine way to thin the herd. There won’t be Declarations of War/Martial Law, etc. , there will be facts (assets, behaviors) and intentions to be inferred, along with press releases declaring that everything is fine and getting better real-soon-now.

        I expect real and false-flag events that are intended to incite the easily incited to reveal & sacrifice themselves for little or no productive end beyond “live-fire target practice” and becoming poster-children to be used in polarization exercises.

  3. Great idea! No comments from Matt though …

    I would ask one question though – when is it time to either run to the hills or begin to fight (not in the metaphorical sense)?

    • Matt’s standing by and will jump in.

      METT-TC is the answer to your question – local conditions drive most, if not all.

      http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/mett-tc/

      http://www.uc.edu/armyrotc/ms2text/MSL_201_L04b_Intro_to_Troop_Leading_Procedures.pdf

    • Hugh – to my way of thinking you ‘run to the hills’ any time you think its appropriate – and at those times the earlier the better of course, because you want to avoid the tsunami of unpleasantness. You can always come back if you decide later that it was premature.

      Of course, its situational, so you may run earlier for some kinds of events than others that you see on the horizon. E.g. if you’re worrying about an economic collapse this year, you might want to take some vacation early and go plant your garden at your alternate location, and maybe even stock it up if you can cache or lock up your stuff.

      As for fighting, I think you’ll know when it is time. You’ll probably find yourself either needing to defend your self and family, or running to help someone who does need it. It doesn’t much matter who you would be fighting against, the situation will present itself and you’ll respond. Then you’re committed to it.

    • LET me jump in here and give you some advice,there will be no warning signs,unless your eyes are WIDE OPEN,DHS are placing their ammo supplies around the country NOW,anytime you go anywhere park in a location where you can get to your weapons if the wars going in the parking lot of the store,they will be rounding up VETERANS in places like wal-mart,stay away from large stores,unless they have a back door……ALWAYS CARRY A WEAPON ON YOU,AT ALL TIMES,be prepeared to use it,IF you live in a city move NOW,if you live in the country,and you see those little quad bikes coming down your road,THERE coming for you,there easy to spot,camo paint ,with soldiers in camo,usally 7 in a group,DON’T GO INTO A ROAD BLOCK,they’ll pull you out of you car and load you on a bus and no one will ever see you again,YOU CAN’T FIGHT IF THEY CAPTURE YOU THE FIRST DAY………………………….

  4. Peter, ALWAYS remember we are here in support………….!!
    If necessary, ‘Laos’ to your ‘Vietnam’.
    HABCAN/COMAFNOR

  5. Pete,
    What can I say but WOW. Fantastic group that you have put together here and my thanks goes out to each one of them for giving their time and dedication to this effort. All around from your daily postings to this specific event thank you.
    Now lets get past the philosophical and down to the brass tacks of resistance. My question is do those on the panel see a pathway to a real viable resistance? Do you see fertiliaty in national efforts or does this have to start at the most basic local level and build from there?

    • Grenadier 1,…..ITS already to late to talk to anyone at local,county or state level,the PLAN for a surprise attack is in place and nothing you can say to these morons will change anything,they have no control of anything NOW,do you understand? trust me they WILL OPEN FIRE when there ready,and their almost ready,MAKE SURE YOUR READY,it will be without warning!!!……………

  6. Ah just saw the question at the bottom. First advice? Like everything else start with the basics and evaluate what you can do. Get off the couch and PT. Get a good supply in place. Get a weapon and learn how to use it in the field (very different than a video game and/or on a known distance range). Then specialize in what you can do. Not everybody is fit enough to run through the woods with 18 year olds.

  7. Turn off your cable/dish TV inputs. Elvis was correct when he shot his TVs.
    – it reduces background “noise”, clears the mind from the incessant bombardment. Behaviours, memes, these things seep in, the old adage about being a product of your environment is true.
    – it frees up a lot of man-hours that were otherwise wasted. Talk to your family at mealtime instead of watching the tube. It’s easier to communicate with your new group too. Set up a meeting mid-week, let your kids play together and adults talk instead of being within their own little isolated, controllable cocoons. Prep tasks are a lot easier to schedule/complete as well.

    • I would add, limit your internet surfing. It can suck a lot of time and the bombardment of info can make it hard to see the forest for the trees.

  8. I would like to ask the panel if relocating to an area of the country with more like minded people should be a priority. (Mid-west?)
    NH seems to be “behind enemy lines” these days.

    • I don’t know if it should be priority, but if you can do it you should, just for more cover if nothing else.

  9. Is it too late to start a county “militia” organization?
    My Sheriff is pro-constitution and seems to be worth supporting.
    Would starting a “militia” with his blessing be a pro or con to the
    struggle?

    • Semper Fi, 0321

      Lotsa luck.
      I’m in NW Wyo., have been trying for years to get a few like minded folks together for tribe. nobody wants to see what’s happening around us. Denial and more useless spending from them all. Look after yourself and see what crawls out of the ruins later. That will be the basis for tribe. When the cell phones and electronic toys no longer work, people may listen, but not before.

      CA, thanks for this wonderful post!!!

      • You might want to look at Free State Wyoming. http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

        We have no political agenda, just working together for mutual support and encouragement. Lots of like minded people, but no real organization. No cats to herd.

        • Semper Fi, 0321

          ML,
          Hard to follow something when your website is outdated by several years. Ken needs to either keep up or close it down, nothing new in a long time. You lost me years ago, even quit going to shoots.
          And the blog’s the same, most of the folks don’t even live in Wyoming, yet started chewing on my ass from Houston or Kalif. WTF?

      • I hope you realize,they plan to KILL everyone in IDAHO,MONTANA,WYHOMING and any state they think much resistence will be there, their planning to GAS,BOMB, BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS most of the northern states,their not planning to lose,get ready ,were almost at zero hour…………………

      • SF0321, I’m an army combat vet and in NW Wyoming as well. Shoot me a message. g.r.merica (at) gmail dot com.

    • Semper Fi, 0321

      I’d like to add that most of the deputies are good ole local boys, but the sheriffs and police depts suck on the federal tit big time. Ours here follows the fibbies around like a lost puppy. They’ll tell you anything to get another vote, proceed with caution.

      • x2. trust, but verify. Remember that it goes both ways. You must be absolutely trustworthy if you want to be trusted.

        The “canary trap” is a still worthwhile bit of tradecraft that one can use to check for trustworthiness, but never forget ‘need to know.’ The silken trap may be millenia old, but still works too.

  10. Europe and the rest of the lands that were once her colonies have all slid into serious nanny statism, or worse. For the panelists:

    Hard number (10%, 50% whatever) – what’s the chance that U.S. 2023 has more freedom than U.S. 2013?

  11. Michael Downing

    Thanks Pete. My one comment would be to undertsand that everyone can resist on different levels. Not everyone is a “soldier” but every can resist in any way they can. Undertsand that and build your resitence locally accordingly. Those that support a resistence are in the end perhaps will be the ones who decide if efforts succeed or not. Cultivate that resistence on all levels.

  12. Grenadier1 — “Do you see fertiliaty in national efforts or does this have to start at the most basic local level and build from there?”

    Personally I see the most important action being local. And diverse. More difficult to predict, track, or halt. If serious resistance grows at a local level, someone (or someones) will be bound to step in to try to tie it all together and make it national. But since any such effort will either a) be herding cats or b) create a big target, I have real mixed thoughts about whether it would be helpful or harmful.

    I can also picture a freedom effort being global — but remaining so diffuse and diverse that central authorities will simply wear themselves out trying to swat it down.

    Just my $.02, though. No crystal ball.

    • CLaire,its to late for talking,OBAMA and HIS BANKER FRIENDS, SOLD america to the chinese last summer,this is going to be a shooting war and theres no way around it,all talking is a waste of time no one in government can stop it,or slow down whats about to happen,all that can be done at this stage is to GET READY,if you want to survive………..

  13. Buy commodities: Land, gold, guns, ammo, seeds, etc.

  14. Sorry gang, I was refreshing the wrong page, “Doh!”
    Is it too late to post my 7 question replies? Maybe I just better dive in and not make you go back.

    • Mr. Bracken, please provide your take on the original questions. Since reading your past posts, your opinion is appreciated greatly.
      Thank you in advance for your experience and input.

  15. Disciple of Night

    Get in the graces of the Almighty. Because, win or lose, none of us live forever, and in His grand scheme, none of this is more important than your soul.

  16. For newbies? Here’s what I wish someone had said to me 30 years ago: Don’t presume to teach in a classroom you’ve just entered. Don’t be a pushy evangelist. Now is the time to learn—you will find there is much maturing to be done, and many new minds to meet and learn from along the way. Never stop that process – I don’t know anyone I respect who brags they’ve arrived. There are no magic solutions. Politics will disappoint you, but sometimes the game needs to be played out of sheer survival. ULLA SELLA IN PUGNA IN TABERNA: Any chair in a bar fight, assuming you can’t get out of it. Don’t be a mere consumer –if you find something that resonates and passes the test of being an observation-based conclusion as opposed to mere opinion, that’s a pretty good indicator you’re dealing with rational thought, and, keeping that evangelist caveat in mind, do be a force multiplier and share information you conclude has value.

  17. Do you folks think that it’s time to stop writing letters? A lot of folks say “They ignore our letters!” but I tend to think if we stop writing they will think they “won” by default. Contacting the Reps/Senators is still viable (at least in making our voices heard in that venue) in my opinion. What does the panel think?

    • I wish more letters were written. I slap my forehead when I see “cold dead hands” chatroom warrior rhetoric from someone who won’t even send an email or pass along a link. There are what, 80+M gun owners in this country–can you imagine if just 1% of them flooded each member of Congress on a regular basis? They would overwhelm them. I keep coming back to Churchill’s admonition: “If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

      • Thanks! I’ll pass that on. I’ve been screaming at people to write twice a week now. Send a letter to all of them, at least a couple times a month!

        • Letters can be lost and emails deleted. If contacting those people is something you do, make a phone call. After Joe Manchin stepped on it re: 2A, he had to hire seven more staffers to handle our calls. They take notice of that.

          In Liberty,
          — KP

          • YOU ARE RIGHT KP, they took notice alright ,they decided to do a surprise attack,all the letters did was to make them realize the slaves were waking up and the jig was up,on them and their criminal friends………….the internet,woke up the slaves and the bankers sold america to the chinese,better to get a few more bucks,and then run with what they could steal,and not get hanged for treason…………………

    • Not if “stop writing letters” implies “stop complaining.” But if you want to move on to complaining in another way, yeah, maybe it’s time to do that. Here’s one retired colonel who thinks we’re past the letter stage:

      http://www.newyorkdailysun.com/only-rebellion-can-save-america

    • I think that if we all wrote, it would help. But so few Americans can either understand the mess or cope with it that I find most don’t even want to be active (write or call) at all. They will be surprised when they have to make choices due to events, but I don’t try to educate those. They can’t hear me with their heads stuck up ‘there’.

      Me, I’m kinda fed up with writing. I get such bogus responses, if any. So I’m focused on preparing, on strengthening like-minded friends and family, and pretty much ignoring the rest now. I don’t think anyone in D.C. or my statehouse is going to listen until their lives depend on it. But by then most of us will already be suffering from their follies and it may be too little too late. I try to tell them that, but their heads are ‘up there’ too.

      • rev. dave said “I get such bogus responses, if any.”

        I hear you there. I write very frequently and from those who actually respond the response I usually get is “thanks for taking the time to write, I’ll consider your opinions.” Most probably know me by name now and don’t even bother to respond any longer. I still write mainly for myself so that when things finally kick off I can say that I petitioned my government peaceably for a redress of grievances until the very end although I know that nothing will come out of my efforts.

        If far more would do the same however I think we could have an effect.

      • WE were in denver at a protest,a united states senator told us to screw off because he had a ticket,as he held his hand up like there was something in it,I realized at that point in time we had better get ready,their not afraid ,because they plan on going underground for the war and they don’t care about US………………………..

  18. “There’s a lot of crossover between hackers and gun owners. Interesting alliances could develop, creating movements no one can now guess at.”

    I’d say Claire is truly on to something there. Maybe I’m just slow on the uptake, but this is brilliant insight and not something I had given much thought to. As a soldier I tend to look to guns first. As the old saying goes, “if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like nail.” We need a whole toolbox, not just hammers. Or carpenters.

  19. Rule308 — Re: moving. Lots of people I know are tied to an area by family, job, etc. and just need to make the best of where they are. Me, though? If I lived in a seriously anti-freedom place I’d move. In a heartbeat.

    However, why does that have to mean a major dislocation? Living in a rural area, even in a statist state, might be all you need.

    Still … for those who are stuck someplace, these days, with the ‘Net, the whole world can be our “community.”

    • Claire, I am stuck in Collectivistafornia but in a fairly decent area (semi-rural on Central Coast) which is nothing like the more urban areas of the state. My dream has been to move to the “free states” since 2008 but that is just not feasible for at least 5 more years…I just hope we have that much time left.

      Do you have any particular or special advice for someone who is stuck behind enemy lines, more specifically in Kalifornia?

      • Redleg – Good to hear from you again. Lost contact a couple years back with Oathkeepers. I live here in Northern California. I’ve been here all my life and nobody is going to drive me away. It’s home and is worth fighting for. You’d be surprised at how many others feel the same way. Stay put and put up a fight. The enemy here are limp wristed weannies. Hammer them hard if the fighting starts, but don’t run. There’s no place to run to.

    • Claire both coasts will go down the first day,in the first hour,if you want to stay with your family fine,but they better live in the mountains or they’ll be on you the first day,this ain’t going to be a birthday party,they PLAN to take this country,BY FORCE, AND THERE GOING TO KILL EVERYONE THEY SEE……if you live on the coast or a big city your already done………………………………..

  20. It feels like there is a quickening happening right now. Obama’s second term was like the whistle going off at the start of the second half of the Superbowl.. You know it’s for all the marbles, now. What ever you brought, you better use it. I think the leftists feel this way, and are acting accordingly. Sandy Hook was one example, but I think there will be many more.

    Thwarting them is of course a very good thing. The fact that it appears that they can’t pass the AWB2 even through Harry Reid’s Senate must be infuriating to the true believers.

    But slowing them down, while important, isn’t nearly enough. The rachet effect of leftism is perfect. Like a zip-tie you can pull it tighter but you can’t loosen it. Our desires to go back to a time when the government lived within its limits won’t be fulfilled in the ordinary political process.

    The best plan I’ve seen is still Boston T. Party’s Free State Wyoming concept (which bears a lot of resemblance to the outcome of the plot of Unintended Consequences and the Middle America series). In other words secession.

    As Claire says in her introductory comments: if you want freedom for yourself you need to grant it to others. I don’t really see that we’re going to convince the Latino majority in California that they should organize as the Patriots of 1776 would have us. They have different traditions. I don’t want to impose my ideas on them, let them have their communal La Raza Aztlan, but let me go.

    Secession is a divorce of people who no longer have much in common. It seems unlikely at first, but then the USSR broke apart so quickly even the intelligence agencies were unprepared for it.

    So, start in one or two states. Or start with Dixie. Maybe it’s still going to take some cataclysmic event to make people see the possibility. AWB2 has probably created more talk of secession and a resurgence of nullification laws, which was the first step last time.

    Otherwise I think we just sit here prepping forever, and we’re out-waited by the libs, who eventually get it all. They are sitting on 21 point lead in the second half. We have to move the ball to have a chance of winning, they just have to manage the clock.

    I don’t know what form resistance takes in mixed states like Washington and Oregon. You do read a lot of novels that have a lot of ugly dirty war stuff happening in the states that are split fairly evenly.

    I think relocation has to be at the top of all of our agendas. I’m pretty sure the vet in New Jersey who just got charged with 3 felonies for 3 empty 30 round mags in his trunk wishes he had left that hell-hole for Wyoming or Utah or some other state that is more freedom oriented.

    • The 2A fight has left the lib’s with their foot on a mine. They have that sickening thought now while marching with caution, stalking their prey, silent and focused then CLICK!
      Now they are figuring how to get off it without blowing their legs off. The best we can do is keep the pressure on them, on all fronts, to ensure they do in fact blow off their legs. Write letters, make phone calls and keep responding on these blogs. But all the ammo, food, and gear you can afford so they continue to see opposition growing exponentially, while they stand there with their foot on that mine, wondering how they will get out of the mess. Make sure they only have one way out, the hard way. They started this.

    • I’m in Portland Oregon, which is fully-occupied Obama country. If a person is merely registered as a Democrat, they are suspected of being a reactionary and possibly a gun owner or closet R voter. The Socalist anti-racist/anti-White groups are big here, with insider political support. Surprised that we haven’t had Concealed Carry Permit addresses contacted by the Block Leaders for Public Safety Committee concerning their dangerous weapons.

      Idaho is looking pretty good, even Boise as a “Portland lite” urban area.

      • I live in SE PDX and while I’m laying in provisions for the uncertain future, I know in my heart that I won’t be able to do as much as I need to keep my family alive and together. This area is a swamp of welfare-dependent drones that will turn on me and mine as soon as their EBT cards go blank. Because I’m nearly 80 yrs old and kinda beat up, I won’t be able to run anywhere nor will I be much use to anyone who needs help. One of my neighbors has a “plan” to bug out to his brother’s place in southern Oregon but doesn’t have the faintest idea of what he’ll do about roadblocks. I think he’s screwed. Most of the others keep a wet finger up to see what direction the wind is blowing but don’t have a decent store of Beans, Bullets or Band-aids. I suspect there are others nearby who have much the same conditions to contend with. I wonder who they are and if we will be able to find each other in time to improve our individual and/or collective situations. As planned by the government, we’re afraid to trust anybody outside our own houses, yet we have to find someone we can trust and work with or we will all be picked up and hanged seperately. To that end I will take a chance and invite you to contact me at yancey_dv (at) msm.com. The government already knows everything about me so there’s no point in trying to be cute with some sort of code. I’ve watched your posts for a year or so now and I believe we’re like-minded.

  21. Grenadier1: The encouragement and information-sharing can be done nationally, but the ground you occupy is where physical efforts need to be focused. There IS no national unified effort, hence my link in the intro to the Arabs at Damascus.
    rule308: That entirely depends on your situation. A lot of the opinions I see suggest there is a “one size fits all” for everyone. There’s not. If you’re good where you are stay. If you’re not, leave—assuming your threat assessment reasonable concludes that is necessary. Otherwise, you may want to just scout around for a better place – but also keep in mind if you’re the new guy, don’t expect to be automatically embraced.
    Same answer goes for CuriousinWY—there is no way anyone not on the ground in your AO can answer your question about your sheriff. Have you asked him? That’s what you need to do. Same for anybody else with the same question.
    Michael Downing—EXACTLY.

  22. I echo all of the above on PT, weapons training, and prepping.
    I will add that – if you are a newbie to all of this – you need to make sure you understand how our government was designed to work so you can better understand how it has been perverted. Re-read the following: The Declaration of Independence, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, the Constitution, and any books on civics from fifty years ago you can find. Understand how our government is supposed to work vs how it really works. Understand ‘negative rights’ in the Bill of Rights and how they apply. Understand natural rights and how they apply. The more you understand what the Founding Fathers intended, the distribution of power not just federally, but to state and local levels, the wider your eyes are opened to how much power has been usurped by the fedgov from the governed. Know that you can look some enforcer in the eyes and very rightfully say “You do not have the power to do that. You may have the guns and materiel, but you do not have the moral authority.”

    Understand how our financial system works. Understand economies. Read Friedman, Hayek, von Mises, Sowell, Williams, Keyenes, and Marx. Understand the differences in philosophy and see where you come down. You don’t need to be a professor, just understand the big concepts. Thomas Sowell has a great economics primer book.

    Get your mind primed and get to your definition of “freedom.” Is it the status quo, except that you get to keep your guns? Is it the abolition of the state entirely? Do you keep your pension? Social Security? Medicare? What are you willing to live without? Know what you stand for and what you will fight for. Then start finding the like-minded. Just know that true freedom scares most Americans to death.

    • Interesting point about pensions, there. I will predict that there will be a big fight about pensions within the government not too far in the future.

      The courts have been letting big corporations skate on their contractual obligations to pay their pensioners because the companies had been skating on their pension funding obligations – using the money to justify bonuses instead – for decades and the funds are coming up short. So big business is being allowed to just walk away from funding pensions.

      But, all those millions and billions are supposed to be in some kind of managed bank account for those pensions, and aren’t. That has to piss off the bankers and financiers in a big way – seeing all that money they should have had to play with getting taken away.

      So I see a near term battle between corporate interests and bankers for the funding. Since bankers around the world are already making sure their tower office windows open so they can jump out when the global banking business self-destructs (notice I did not say global economy – because an ‘economy’ is NOT finance and corporate profits), I expect that once a few of them read my comment here they will start to eye all those pension funds slipping away and start calling up their pet congress-critters to force payments from the corporations.

      That will start a lobbying war. Most likely, all pensions will end up looted by banks and no longer funded by corporations, and we’ll all lose out.

      • Federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp, is lies like Federal Reserve Bank. Congress funds it, if it is funded. It’s only a little better than nothing, but is used as cover during BK/re-org to allow looting of otherwise good pension programs.

    • Excellent read on the foundational thoughts, ideas and philosophies that shaped and guided our founders in their work forging our new Republic: The 5,000 Year Leap by W.Cleon Skousen. Link to Amazon:

  23. My thoughts are: Human nature is unchanged and unchanging. This is why history seems to repeat itself. Reading Aesops fables shows we have been the same since at least 600 BC.

    There will always be thoes who want the free lunch, even Jesus said the poor will always be with us. It’s our job to find a way to help them with love and respect and leave their human dignity intact. I am not a wealthy person.

    Our current .gov has got to this point by stealing $$$ from thoes who have it, but worse, stealing dignity from thoes who don’t.

    Tractor on patriots.
    Phill

  24. I personally believe we will come to blows with the government at some point in the future. That said:

    To the late comers/newbies, establish your MINDSET.

    Read or reread The 5000 Year Leap to know where you came from and where it was intended for you to go and how. Most these days have no idea of the principles in this book.

    Once you’ve done that, find others close by and encourage the same. Even read and discuss the book together with your group for a short time.

    Once that mindset is established in your “team” begin working on other preparations, physical fitness, arms training, supplies, etc.

    As you start your initial team of say 5-7, at the same time, encourage others to start their own within your community. This can happen quickly and spread rapidly. Before you know it you have a community with basically the same mindset and at least the beginnings of getting itself prepared to respond as needed.

    Mindset is the key to all. Without that firm grounding you wander aimlessly and are easily defeated when hard times arise.

    My question to the panel:

    With my statement above in mind, what specifics could you offer to build on this scenario? Please be as specific as possible considering the space and time available to comment. Maybe suggested reading to more emphasize your specifics.

    • Lordchamp: I don’t have any further specifics to offer—we all have different parts in this and I don’t pretend to be an authority on small unit tactics—that’s where I take my own advice and shut up and learn. I do agree that mindset is a critical component for success in anything that involves will and skill. In terms of books, you touch on a more general observation I’ve had, that we’ve lost much of the younger generation to reading—one of the “successes” of modern education along with the diversion of electronic entertainment is that kids would much rather just plug into the X-Box than pick up and get lost in “Treasure Island.”

  25. archergarrett — Good question. Less than 1% chance of more freedom, I’d say. But you never know when a black swan will change everything.
    And to clarify: I’d say less than 1% chance the nation will have more political freedom. Much, much, much larger chance that individuals, communities, and perhaps states will have declared freedom closer to home.
    CuriousinWY — To me, at this moment, a militia is more likely to be a convenient target for both fed action and fed PR than a useful freedom tool. And I wouldn’t trust a sheriff unless I’d personally seen him lay everything on the line for real liberty (and not just for turf protection). But you’re in WY. That place is different. :-)

  26. robroysimmons

    Maybe in the thread highlight the responses by the panelists from the comments by the readers and questioners.

    My question, have we painted ourselves into a corner by reveling in being the “Black Rifle” fringe? It seems to me at least the black rifle adverts and culture are geared towards Spec Ops fan boys.

    • I wouldn’t consider the “Black Rifle” anything close to fringe, being that it’s been the most popular sporting rifle in the country for how many years… with what, like 4-5 million sold, and how many hundreds of millions of standard 30 rd mags sold in just the last few months. Three years worth of inventory sold in a day or week, that at least tells me people are paying attention.

      I’d say that put them (EBRs, mags) solidly into more the “common use” category, and thus staunchly protected under Heller.

      When I think of “fringe” I think of evil old ladies trying to tell the men and women, “Mr. and Mrs. America” of this country what we can keep in our homes. That’s fringe and dangerous thinking, which we are checking with this conversation.

  27. The first requirement for liberty and justice is a firm understanding, and daily practice of self ownership and self responsibility, in voluntary association with others for mutual benefit. The law of non-aggression, and the absolute recognition of the right to self defense for every human being, springs from and is dependent on that self ownership/responsibility.

    Without this foundation, no amount of “resistancer” or “revolution” will result in anything but more of what we’ve already got. When some people are given power over other people against their will, tyranny – slavery – is the inevitable result, regardless of the “intentions” or goals.

    The only rational, sustainable government is SELF government, in voluntary cooperation with others. Is it possible for this to become common or even universal? I wish I knew. So far, we’ve always been a small minority.

  28. alan w. mullenax

    This has to be one of the coolest, most significant things to come down the pike.

    Peter, kudos. Panelists, thank you for participating.

  29. I’d love to hear a couple of viewpoints on timetables, exactly how long do we have before the War begins on a large scale?

  30. People still believe a constitutional framework is present, when all evidence is to the contrary. As long as people operate under this illusion, no resistance will be sufficient. Everyone seems to be waiting for that mysterious and wholly personal “line in the sand.” What if that “line” never really appears? What if, instead, a deal is presented? “Do you want medical care, the right to “own” property, your wages, your pension? Hand over your firearms, and sign here…”

    I can appreciate the thought that freedom should win.

    • Iceni26AD, that’s why it’s incumbent on us to wake more up and get them to realize that and resent it. My whole schtick is trying to radicalize gun owners–I don’t try to win converts or waste my time arguing with antis–that’s a niche somebody else has to occupy– but I focus on getting gun owners who have already dipped their toes in the pool to swim out to deeper waters where they’re ready for the lessons at places like WRSA. I’m more of a bus driver than anything else, I drop them off where people who do know what they’re talking about in re preparations and tactics can impart what they know to people ready to hear it.

      • David said “My whole schtick is trying to radicalize gun owners.”

        Mission accomplished here, thanks for the wake up call!

      • David Codrea, thanks for being one of my “bus drivers”. This panel is awesome. Some of my favorite novelists, writers, and thinkers all in one place. Teach on, professors of liberty.

        • I’m learning more here than I’m spouting off. There’s a lot all of you who have years of experience in your particular ares of focus are teaching all of us, so it’s not just the pre-arranged panelists I’m paying attention to, although I’m taking away a lot of good stuff from them, too..

      • I appreciate the hard work you do on this, David. I read your blog and GRE articles daily. Many thanks.

  31. taareallitycheck — You wrote: “I tend to think if we stop writing they will think they “won” by default.”

    And I think you need to analyze why you think that. How can spending your time supplicating and begging people who have already decreed their complete disregard for rights and law be a useful tactic in the battle for freedom?

    The whole business if “all good citizens v*te” and “all good citizens politely voice their opinions” (to their masters) is a dodge. A distraction. A mis-direction. It’s designed to keep us busy and give us the illusion we’re “doing someting” — so they can go on “doing something” to us without serious resistance.

    I do understand the impulse to keep writing those letters, though. I did it myself, long past the point where I had any hope it would help.

    • Thank you Claire. I do not “supplicate” – my letters are more of the line of “Correct what you’re doing wrong, I’m an American, not a subject”. And I give them specific things they SHOULD be doing. I don’t beg, or ask. I tell. I spent a long, long time in the military. I know how to take orders, but I can give them now as a civilian to other civilians that I’ve “hired” to do my bidding.
      Now, to be clear – it is STILL an avenue to correcting problems, even if it doesn’t appear to be correcting issues. Why? Because I believe we have to use every single tool at our disposal and that includes running out the clock – telling them right up to the last second that we intend to resist stupid laws and rules, over reaching government hands.

      I realize that writing probably isn’t helping, but when you have a handful of canned letters to send and can do it at the click of a mouse button, what does it hurt? MAYBE they can look back on it and say “Damn, they TOLD US so….”

      • “I know how to take orders, but I can give them now as a civilian to other civilians that I’ve “hired” to do my bidding.”

        If writing letters makes you happy and you can do it without taking time from serious freedom activities, then go for it. David C. puts it beautifully when he compares it with spear rattling.

        However, how often do your “hirelings” obey your orders? And if they don’t obey, how impressive does your authority appear to them?

        • “However, how often do your “hirelings” obey your orders? And if they don’t obey, how impressive does your authority appear to them?”
          Well…. it’s time to rattle louder then…. :)

    • Yes, never beg. I never suggest supplicating:

      http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=386

      I look at letters kind of like Zulu warriors pounding their spears on their shields before a battle to create a massive, threatening sound that creates fear and doubts.

      And I do suggest “attaboys” for them what done good.

  32. From MG and JL:

    Q#1: Question # 1

    The average American is facing growing infringement from Federal, some State and some Local government on a vast array of issues. We are not only becoming a nation of ‘haves’ and ‘have not’s’ with a rapidly disappearing middle class… government bureaucrats and our elected officials have separated from the public into a ruling class above the law applied to the common citizen much like feudal monarchies.

    There are so many laws on the books that it is impossible for the average person to know all of them. Law enforcement, public officials and the judiciary don’t even know all of them.

    A government official or agency, at their whim, can cause severe problems for a person simply by finding one of these laws to use against you. Ignorance of the law isn’t accepted as a defense in the judicial system.

    Americans are suspicious and distrustful of their government… especially Federal government.

    The “Line in the Sand” has been drawn with proposed new gun laws. As in Matt Bracken’s books… the proposals are there just waiting for the hysteria of a congressional vote to pass them into law after the next big ‘massacre.’

    As soon as firearms are out of the hands of citizens, watch how any ‘niceties’ of government evaporate and dictatorial edicts will transform America into a Stalinist police state. We will have ‘freedom’ only in name.

    Americans must take the time to contest and confront this mis-use of power by government… they can no longer just sit on the side lines.

    • >> “Americans must take the time to contest and confront this mis-use of
      power by government… they can no longer just sit on the side lines.”<<
      Most effective means is "Jury Nullification" (Google it and study it!): the duty of a sworn juror is to try the "law" as well as the alleged offense. SCOTUS has ruled that it can not be made criminal to practice a right, and that anything that over reaches, or contradicts, the powers specifically enumerated in our Constitution, even if in the form of "law", is invalid from inception and doesn't count. Period. So, being registered to vote gets you in the "jury pool", then when you are actually to report and are empaneled, it might be cool to share with your fellow jurors some pre-printed copies of the actual laws that govern our right and duty as jurors to call "BS" when overzealous legislators, judges, and prosecutors get pushy. Discretion being the better part of valor, you would do well to keep your own counsel on this until you are actually empaneled, as judges and prosecutors absolutely, positively, really hate this stuff, nearly as much as we hate tyrants. (Sun Tzu smiles…)

  33. Some additional questions you guys can answer if you like:
    1. I’m expecting periods of blackouts, bank holidays, food shortages especially for cities or days or weeks when it gets to be the worst; any predictions on what to expect ?
    2. national health care seems to be the final linchpin to the govt owning the people, will obamacare achieve that ?
    3. my theory is its too late for america anyways as the immigrants over the past 40 years have brought and been allowed to keep their home country’s values(especially economic) and in 10 years Texas will go democrat and then the US is England-west. do you guys see any way that theory doesn’t prove out ?

    • Lee:
      1. Big riots if/when that happens. I lived through the LA riots and saw how they were confined. I would expect that to change if the situation becomes desperate enough. I’m in an area that if it spreads out to where I am, it will be diffused, as opposed to concentrated. That’s what my prep strategy anticipates.
      2.There are no benefits without costs. I don’t consider O’Care a done deal, because it depends on the system staying intact, and also on political fortunes–it is an illusion, and when it starts to manifest its true form, there will be backlash. Plus, a big financial blowup like you anticipate in your first observation would certainly have a major effect on this.
      3. You may be right.

      • thank you dcodrea, always good to hear thoughts on reality rather than the fantasyland cnn and cnbc are selling.

  34. I’m back. Just read the thread, can’t take the time now to go reply by reply. Just jumping in with some thoughts. I think we are on the cusp of a major reset, and politics (guns vs no guns, for example) will only be one dimension of the reset, although an important and integral one.

    That said, I think it’s imperative that we go full force with all we have to educate the reachable about the trap door (with the “O” logo welcome mat hiding it) that is beneath our feet. We are at a dangerous moment, when the wolf in sheep’s cloting smiles broadly and speaks of “public safety” and discusses “the plague of gun violence” non-stop 24/7. THis is a classic two-step between a govt making its grab for dictatorial power, and a compliant and cooperating MSM in full Quisling-Goebbels mode.

    So since they own the fleeting glances of the uninformed voters, and that is a lot of glances, we need to fight very effectively in the electronic battlespace where we live. And I do not mean chattering among the choir, but moving our messages out to teh reachable, and increasingly, that means reaching them on a screen with pictures or videos. They don’t read, folks, so we need to help them digest the history.

    THat’s why I’m busily crafting photomemes with history messages, from the Armenians a century ago to the CHinese today. But great images and videos do no good shared among us. We need to plant them on more fertile ground, and that will take some thining.

    My own instinct is to not fight the “small ball” on the Newtown lot, arguing small mas shootings vs Chicago or whatnot. That is the court where they win the RKBA debate no matter what. Uninformed voters are too easily swayed by honeyed claims of concern for “public safety” and “reasonable and common sense gun regulations.”

    We lose if we fight on that ground. John Lott is awesome, his stats prove it all, but it’s still the wrong court. We need to go on the offense, and play by Alinsky Rules, not our usual police Queensbury Rules. We know the end game of tyrants, it is 1-2-3 Extermination. We need to shout this in their faces at every chance. “Don’t genocide me, bro!” Explain to the dumb masses, “This is what they ALWAYS do, go for the guns, then the freedom.” People are not (all) stupid, and they understand history if they know it.

    So my argument is, “Yes, it’s sad that mass shooters sometimes kill by fives and tens. But dictators kill by tens of MILLIONS, and they always take away the guns first!” People will “get” that, if we don’t shy away from it.

    The other main “reachable” enemy is the Quisling traitor media. I say we put up a “Walter Durante Award” every week or month. Point out how the NYT and other MSM for a century always backed Lenin, Stalin, Castro etc. They always will sell out freedom, they are first an foremost international Marxists, in hiding. So I say, call them out. Hand out Goebbels Prizes, Quisling Awards, etc. Spread them around on social media, and try to get them out of our echo chamber.

    Finally, always ask these questions, anytime you can. First: “Why do you want to set me up for genocide? Why do you want to disarm me, like every tyrant? Why are you scapegoating me like the Jews in Germany?”

    The liberal will be aghast and in shock, and deny it, and call you crazy.

    Then you say you are either one of Lenin’s “useful idiots,” a naive utopian ignorant to history, or a secret Stalinst, one who understands the unspoken plans, but is not yet ready to announce the construction of the Americian Gulag, where they can deal with the bitter clingers.

    If they are intelligent enough to know the name, mention that Obama’s mentor and ghost-autobiographer William Ayers believes that ten percent of Americans will have to be liquidated to ensure the success of the leftist revolution. IOW, exterminate the bitter clingers.

    And all they need to do to set that train in process is bamboozle the uninformed dumb masses that gun safety is something we need in 2013. Disarm the bitter clingers, and the next stop is the Utopia Express. Except for the ten percent who have to be eliminated.

    In that climate, feeling like “salon Jews” debating in Berlin in 1930 about whether to stay or to go, would any sane person agree to be disarmed?
    Not only no, HELL NO! Our role now is to explain to all sides exactly what the table stakes are in this game of chicken. We must hold to the Constitution as our last line of defense. If we allow it to be superceded any more than it is, all will be lost. We are well along the “Hugo Chavez” path to the “fundamental transformation” of America…into a socialist hell.

    The Second Amendment might be Fort Sumter. A thousand fuses burning. Federal and state arrests and provocations and false jailings, all tests, probes, attempting to mold the next story to their liking. No question, we shall be portrayed in the media as “Tea Party Terrorists,” cont on it. Press on anyway. We can own the internet, and if they take it down, or take down Fox or talk radio, if they take out Rush or Glen, those will be signal events.

    But as long as the boys and girls down in the fusion centers remember that we all swore a solemn oath to uphold the Constitution, then we are all on the same team, and this anti-constitutional coup-in-progress will not proceed to the hot phase. But who knows? Concord or Fort Sumter or something entirely new could happen next week.

    One thing I know: we stick to the Constitution, and we stick to our guns, or all is lost. Sorry for going on like that.

    • Awesome!! Just what I needed to bring me calm. Thanks Matt. I will share this my friends and family.

    • Word. Re: Gun Bans and discussions, Information / Ideology.

      Abstract: They speak and hear ideology. We speak and hear information. When they grunt out 2700 pages of Obamacare, we get distracted to go “find out what’s in it.” When we offer the most obvious fact, they seek to discount the message, discredit the messenger, distract attention, and declare victory.

      “…it was plain that they had long ago degenerated into a distinct biological type, that verbal communication between us had broken down beyond repair and that we could exchange only bullets”
      AlSol, Gulag Archipelago , Volume 3, Tearing At The Chains.

      Disclaimer: I’m just trying to save space on comments, not divert traffic from this discussion.

    • There is a very powerful tool in all this, and perhaps it is the most powerful for its simplicity and ease. Call out the “Quisling traitor media.” They offer the most opportunity, every single day, with winning entries on an almost hourly basis.

      One question though…who gets the hazard duty pay?

    • Mr. Bracken….what year was Adolf Hitler Time Magazine’s ” Man of the Year “, 1937 ?

      DAN III

  35. c453967@rmqkr.net

    Ditch the broadcast/satellite/cable TV (saves money too). Educate yourself, I recommend Rothbard’s Conceived in Liberty to start, American history is fun reading. Local groups with people you know, beware (but not necessarily reject) newcomers. Too many people, with power and without, whose decisions could be the trigger or start the ball rolling to predict who/what/where/when.

    • We killed cable/satellite 4 years ago (saves money for the cruising kitty anyway). Read everything you can find, don’t throw it out because it’s a liberal outlet either. Lots of tiny nuggets of truth in there (they DO tell the truth of their agendas, guns and control of the population, you just have to DIG!)

  36. I’m thinking the best immediate course of action is what Mr. Bracken proposed yesterday…

    Mass public training events. The networks are already set up (Goruck groups and the like), the public spaces are there (soccer fields, baseball outfields, high school soccer fields) it’s just going to take some good old fashioned community’ organizin’ and massive cajones.

    I see no reason (in places where currently legal) to not have open long arm massive dry fire drills in public spaces. That could send a message, improve morale and get actual training done all in one. Of course, it will be frowned upon by the local stooges, let them frown. This would all be in full gear with standard and above loadouts, mags full in case they frown too hard.

    Karo ya maro. Do or die.

  37. “As soon as firearms are out of the hands of citizens, watch how any ‘niceties’ of government evaporate and dictatorial edicts will transform America into a Stalinist police state. We will have ‘freedom’ only in name.”

    This point cannot be made enough. When does soft tyrany turn hard? After they disarm the people. Every time. There will be plenty of volunteers for the Stasi, history teaches that for sure. Forget the military-industrial complex, beware the LE-industrial-political complex. Turning America into a police state is a booming industry.

    Ask any surviviors of a genocide from Armenia to today, did your oppressors treat you better, or worse, after they disarmed you? This is the last “polite” phase, while our new masters coax the dangerous old coots out of their dangerous guns. Once done, politeness will evaorate, and the old coot can be ordered onto a bus, or ordered to stay in his house, or anything else. Marched into deserts, or sent to Gulags: the govt will own your body.

    • Armed citizens of the United States are the last defense to tyranny around the world. I believe if you take that away, the US government would no longer try to be a moral or just government. They would not fear the accountability of the American people. From there Tyranny around the world would be allowed to spread like wildfire. There would be no “superpower” holding other nations to higher morals standards and no nation to bring the “slapdown” to evil ones (albeit sanctions or physical force). It would all end right there.
      We are the last lynchpin of defense against tyranny worldwide.

    • Matt,

      I believe we should also beware the praetorian class. There are those among the professional military and “LEO”s who consider themselves better than “mere civilians”. I know because I was once guilty of this very mindset. The insidiousness of this is that it means the .gov won’t have to rely on true believers in the security sector because the praetorian class will serve the regime in order to retain their “elite” status. Unfortunately it won’t be sharp-eyed marksmen and combat veterans on the Patriot side and gays, women and recruits from the FSA on the other side. There will be some VERY highly competent people on their side.

      • No doubt. A steady paycheck, great benefits and free ammo are all hard to beat. At least as long as they are paid, and the pay buys food. STU Teams will abound, and the lines will blur between official LE, dirty cops, inrormants, and death squads. Mexico is ahead of us for those who like lessons.

    • Disciple of Night

      Exactly. All you have to do is point to the nearest graveyard. Those who think genocide is impossible in this nation haven’t read comments coming from the left since Newtown. All that incident did was show how much anger and hatred reside just beneath the surface.

      Don’t worry about grammar, Matt. SEALs have many more important things than that.

      • “read comments coming from the left since Newtown”. Yeah, they do kind of want us all dead, don’t they? What a bunch of Stalinists.

  38. just waiting

    I’m one of the unfortunates currently trapped by circumstance behind enemy lines in NJ. Bet you didn’t know, but Jersey is an old Indian word, it means “land where all idiotic laws originate”.

    I wish I was eloquent (and courageous) enough to express my views from here behind enemy lines, but I’m not. Instead, I’m blessed to see my thoughts put into words but the panel and commentors here.
    Thanks to all for letting me know I’m not really alone after all.

  39. Here’s a question…If you’ve “got tribe” (HUGE extended family) but 99% are stuck in normalcy bias, how the heck do you get them to WAKE UP??? They ALL acknowledge we’re going to hell in a handbasket, hate what’s happened to the country, THRIVE on conflict, but still want to sit on their hands (it’s not time yet).

    • See SF0321’s comment just now.

      “Tribe” in a practical sense is someone you could call tonight at 2 am to help you move a roll of carpet.

      If you know what I mean.

    • Personally, Fred, I think reality will soon wake them up — and then they’ll be glad for all you’ve told them.

      Just hope at that point they don’t turn to you and expect you to carry them!

      And just in case … maybe lay in a few extra preps?

    • Fred, you won’t. They will have you committed first. You must do your preps in secret, low key, as if you were dealing with hystericals on the Titanic. “Yes dear, we must go for a walk on the main deck now.” If you tell them the truth, they will collapse with the vapors. Or call security. So you must save them in spite of their blissful naivete.

  40. PTs and SOPs – the switched on are already doing this.

    How about:
    Economic secession.
    Tribe building.
    Intel gathering.

    We can leverage technology in ways that have hardly been touched yet.

    • treeofliberty

      Farmers markets and flea markets. Open source googling amazing what you can find if you dig long enough. Btw how is the looking glass project going?

      • It’s been archived – working on training.
        Got ahead of myself – need to make people aware there’s a need for such a toolkit first.
        Trying new avenues – stay tuned.

  41. If you are trapped behind enemy lines, I’d consider moving. Burrow deep into your tribal homeland, so to speak. What does Davy Crocket have in common with Glen Beck, they both said, “Hell with you, I’m going to Texas. I left Cali for N Florida, can’t imagine living in SoCal now, much less when the power perhaps goes out.

    • I love SoCal. When the “lights go out” (most of LA’s power comes from Arizona) it will be…a target-rich environment. And I love prepping: tomorrow adding scope to M1a.

  42. robroysimmons

    I agree totally with Mr. Bracken’s strategy, but are the other panelists comfortable with a consistent message which includes the word “genocide?”

    • Rob, we have got to go, like right now, with our big guns. Ask the “salon Jews of 1930″ how the reasonable and incremental approach worked out? Better to disrupt their long plan and fight from a position of strength. When we are next debating the next gun sellout, (perhaps all handguns?) it will be too late do do anthying. Always fight from high ground, and genocide trumps Newtown small ball. When they screech, use it as a chance for a history lesson, and the question about “are you a useful idiot, or a secret Stalinist.” Make THEM fight off charges of slyly planning a genocide. Surely William Ayers understands all the same history? Debate them on “genocide: yes or no?” and we win. Debate them on Newtown vs Chicago, and they winn.

      WE must make the reachable voter see teh downside of disarmament, and fast. And that means lurid history lessons. Pin the genocides on socialists, usually. It’s their M.O. and they always disarm the people first. Always. Joe Sixpack will “get this” fast. So we need to push the debate to the “you are planning to genocide us, like all of the socialists who ever seized power did.” If a media figure excoriates you, announce you are giving that person a Duranty Award, for effective secret communist propaganda on the home front. Piers Morgan as Lord Haw Haw.

      • robroysimmons

        Mr. Bracken I am with you 200%, I just see that people who think themselves intellectuals just love to get sidetracked into the minutae to prove how smart they are. Thanks for your answer

      • The genocide meme isn’t as off the wall as some might think. Neither is the Registration–> Confiscation–> Extermination model. Apparently, last night on Hannity, of all people Ann Coulter was arguing this very thing.

        • See that? And where did Ann Coulter read 1. Registration 2. Confiscation 3. Extermination. On one of these websites. I didn’t invent it. But I put in on photomemes and repeat it constantly, as well as CA and others.

      • Mr. Bracken, I agree completely. JPFO did yeoman’s work outlining this progression, as have others, but genocide only happens to disarmed populations, and usually to populations which are split by culture or ethnicity. We are in no position to hedge our words, or to allow false civility restrain the debate.

        Victim disarmament is the gateway to tyranny, and the precursor to genocide. Let the enemies of freedom fight on our ground for a change. We have gotten where we are in part from an attempt to maintain amicable relations between two mutually exclusive philosophies and that has to stop. Call a tyrant a tyrant and let them try to deny it.

        • I agree. We need to force THEM to answer OUR charges, not the other way. How can they convince us, 100%, that tyranny will NOT rise in the USA in the next generation? And use the registration lists like all of the other tyrants before them? Put THEM on the defensive, with charges that THEY are slyly planning the next genocide of “bitter clingers,” using the exact same playbook as every time before? Put THEM on the defensive! Out Alinsky the would-be socialist tyrants. At this point, it’s Alinsky Rules vs Queensbury, and to win, you have to fight smarter and better. Don’t answer their charges, lay your own. Not fives and tens killed by madmen, but tens of MILLIONS killed by socialist dictators (counting national socialsists) who always, every time, first disarmed their people in the name of “public safety.”

          • A question I like to ask folks-
            “How many *SWISS* Jews went to the gas chambers?”

            then I say- “I have my guarantee against genocide. An armed populace!”

      • I’m coming to the game extremely late, because I was busy today, and forgot about this discussion. I agree with Matt on this. We certainly have to consider the PSYOP implications of what we do, in order to build rapport with people, rather than further alienating them. However, when you’re dealing with an avowed enemy sympathizer/Quisling/collaborator, you’re not going to change his mind, so don’t play nice anymore. Metaphorically, grab him by the throat and balls, and throw him through the plate glass mirror. If “genocide” makes people uncomfortable, good, that means they have to think. If they’re trying to deflect the conversation through minutiae, then you know you’re hitting close to the vitals.
        DOL,
        JM

    • It’s not a question of me being comfortable, it’s a question of is it truthful and appropriate. If I were trying to win over converts, I might not be, but I figure by the time people are ready for the radicalization process I engage in, being direct, blunt and candid is expected. Making that an issue to focus on would be derailing things in a direction I don’t intend to go.

      • robroysimmons

        I take it that is a no? So you won’t be using the word “genocide” in “Guns” or your blogs?

      • Yes, exactly. We must disrupt the “reasonable gun control” incremental path. The useful idiots are grinning like idiots, and the secret Stalinists are exchanging sly winks. It’s meant to be a steay roll out, death of a thousand cuts. The frogs need to all push the pot off the stove, and that means making waves that the chef did not anticipate.

    • I agree that the gun control=genocide argument falls on deaf ears with the people who still believe that their government wouldn’t do that. It’s not the first argument I’d use to persuade my maiden aunt or my next-door neighbor.

      But having written for Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership for seven years (including working on the genocide video “Innocents Betrayed”) I’m shiveringly aware that gun control=genocide may be all-too-valid an argument.

      We already live under a government that has declared its authority to kill us or lock us up without trial — and one that seems bent on disarming the innocent. So …

  43. Well… no one knows me from Adam, so I wasn’t invited. But I’ll toss in my copper plated half cent zinkie (with a production cost of two cents) anyway.

    Starting with the assumption that folks here tend to value freedom:

    We got where we are for pretty much the same reason we aren’t getting out. Out of an estimated polpulation of 315,000,000 fewer than half a million will cast votes for anything resembling a real freedom candidate. And if we do, there’s no guarantee (as has been noted) that such a candidate would even live up to his oath if elected. Out of any group supposedly with a common goal, approximately 7% will actively work towards that goal: 25,000. Spread out over 50 states, averaging 500 per.

    We got here because damned near no one gives a damn what the government does so long as they get their TV viewing record-breaking gladiatorial games and SNAP cards. And that’s why nothing is likely to change in what folks here would consider a positive direction.

    Of course, it’s worse, because those 25K don’t really have the same goals. Some are anarchists who hold aby position less extreme in disdain. Some are religiously motivated who value _their_ version of freedom and the Hell (literally) with anyone else. That might leave you with 12,000 who might try to work towards real freedom.

    So much for the estimated 30% who supported American independence in the 18th century. Or even the “3%”.

    But some states are better than others, right? Yeah, and I live in the “Live in chains and die liking it” state where sitting legislators can literally and explicitly call for the elimination of freedoms to discourage those who value freedom.

    (I’ll hear that there’s 60-70-80-100 million gun owners you can count on when TSHTF. Even assuming you can get 5% of them — or 3% — where the hell were they in ’34, ’68, 86, ’94… and so on [and that's just at the federal level]? “But the NRA will organize them”… Yep, probaly to kill constitutional carry. Again. Or to write a semi-auto ban. Again.)

    So what to do?

    Politically: nothing. You blew your chance(s). Repeatedly.

    You’re alone. Deal with it. We’ll just keep sliding the way we have been. No dramatic collapse, no SHTF. Just a slow fade to black.

    So gather your resources. Hide. Try to keep yourself and you family as comfortable as you can in the dismal “let’s fight global warming by reducing work and productivity” world to be.

    Cope. Don’t draw attention to yourself.

    Of course, there are those for whom all that is too late. Not enough of them to “organize”, and the Feds would just infiltrate and set them up if they did. And the cluelessly satisfied masses would cheer on as they watched teh “terrorists’ trials”.

    So what might those desperate, hopeless few do? I wasted too much of Claire’s blog space to bother reposting it here. So read it there…

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2013/01/30/enemies/#comment-23914

    http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2013/01/30/enemies/#comment-23973

    (Oh, heck: if you just want a little personal satisfaction, try this one, too: http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2013/02/04/celebrate-2/#comments )

    ..and remember that THAT is the optimistic version.

    Even if I still believed in happy endings, I see no sign of one here.

    • Your pessimism emanates from your post. The other contributors spell a dark picture but yours tends to be a “look what you’ve done, now live with it because it’s too late”. I’ve got family, I’m not going there.
      I disagree in a few areas. 1) There will be a dramatic collapse. They want chaos because that’s usually what evil thrives on. TPTB know the gig is up and their lies are out in the open for all to see despite its media arms efforts. They’re digitizing $4 billion a day. They can’t spend it fast enough. They’re probably surprised we’ve held on this long. Have you seen Argentina lately? And they’re on their 2nd collapse. Great example. 2) They can control as many of the events as they can but they can’t control them all. I’m still trying to find out of all is deliberate or incompetence (re: border, benghazi, f & f). 3) As with all marxist/communists throughout history, they’ll blow their wad too soon. They’ll fail. Will people suffer as always, no doubt. But for the sake of my family, it’s not going to be easy for them. Am I scared, you betcha. But what else is there?

      • If you’re not scared, you’re not paying attention. Sadly, it’s very easy to distract Kardashian Nation with a big shiny flat screen TV. BTW, teh essay I’m working on is called, “Alas, Brave New Babylon.” Short fiction from the future.

        • I am very relieved to see this from you.
          “If you’re not scared, you’re not paying attention.”
          I spend a lot of time paying attention to my breathing. I am learning to “embrace the suck,” as it were, and becoming at one with my adrenaline.
          Pointers on the finer skill of handling fear, if there is such a thing, would be very helpful.

          • Have an escape plan. I am partial to 25-30 foot fiberglass boats in the SE that are cheap and in poor condition. Move aboard in a DIY boatyard in FL until it’s ocean ready. Be ready to ditch the land for the sea, for a while. That is, if you don’t get seasick too badly. In that case, look at houseboats. A cheap houseboat can be coverted to diesel in any boatyard, and hide out in a million miles of creeks and rivers from TX to MD and even north, all the way into the middle of the Southland. Car travel routes don’t coincide with thousands of miles of inland waterways. I’m sure lots of folks have other great bug out ideas, but that’s one I have kept to myself for years, but I’d give it a shot. Houseboat. Diesel. Goodbye. Wait.

            • That is an incredibly awesome idea for some. That option could potentially protect a lot of people. A most excellent idea. My wheels are turning. There aren’t enough words to say it well enough…thank you.

            • Amen to that Mr. Bracken, and thanks to the whole symposium crew who at various times over the years have each lent me hope, clarity, and practical ideas to counter the suck.

              I’ve been in the thick of the divestment process for a while now…Simplifying life and reclaiming as much personal sovereignty as I can, while systematically delivering myself from as much of the machine as I am able…And every day finds me more able.

              Fortunately it’s a buyers market for affordable and capable used pocket cruisers in my neck of the Caribbean right now; Which is a blessing because the local parasitic bastards the majority deserves have really screwed the pooch.

              After beating my head against the great wall of bullshit pursuing their sick ass version of the ‘American Dream’™ for most of my life I grew to realize that the only way to be free is to go ahead and BE FREE.

        • That is a brilliant title. Can’t wait to read that short story.

      • “Your pessimism emanates from your post.”

        Wow. You noticed How perceptive of you.

        • Sorry. I guess I’m not ready for the blunt truth. Especially when loved ones have to be convinced still on my end. Makes preparations difficult when you’re the only one seeing what’s coming.
          Thanks.

          • Scott:

            You are not alone.

            Do what you know to be necessary.

            Those closest to you may thank you or hate you for it.

            But it is still necessary.

          • That is not a uique situation. Calling “Iceberg, dead ahead!” to an unbelieving bridge is typical. Those who can see far ahead must prepare accordingly, and even take care of the disbelieving until events take place to convince them.

          • Some cannot see. Those folks if asked gentle questions and allowed to mull things over, can change.

            Some WILL NOT see, from fear or because they cannot break out of their paradigm. Those are harder to reach.

    • Bear, I posted some of your comments at Liberty and Lead. I think the picture you paint is pretty accurate. It aligns with what Bob Owens said a couple of weeks ago.

      • If you’re talking about Owens’ post, “Just one example of how the government could lose a civil conflict” (http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/01/shock-the-system/), not really:

        1) He was talking about _organized_ activity (and some “lone wolves”).
        2) He seems to think it work (for “work” read: help restore freedom).

        Re:1- In my (hopefully only) pessimistic view, while some of the infrastructure targeting might be organized, most wouldn’t. And those reduced to acting in that fashion wouldn’t be doing it to restore freedom; they’re the hopeless/desperate who no longer think freedom can be restored. They wouldn’t be freedom fighters so much as blaze-of-glory nihilists.

        Re:2- It wouldn’t work. It would only be given (by the “authorities”), and accepted (by 314,988,000 people satisfied with the status quo), as “terrorism” justifying more limits on individual liberty. My hope is that the folks who adopt the tactics will try to distinguish between general infrastructure that keeps everyone eating, and the specific infrastructure supporting government activities. But that’s a thin hope.

        Because they won’t just be desperate and without hope. They’ll be angry. Not just at the government that screwed them, but at the people who let the government screw them (which includes themselves, which will make them angrier).

        The poverty threshold for a family of four in the US is $23,021 (US Census Bureau, 2011). The IRS is now estimating that the low-end “Bronze” Obamacare plan will cost a family of four a _minimum_ of $20,000. Do the math.

        Yeah, they’ll be angry.

  44. Ok… stepping on “tin foil” areas now…. in the past few months…we have lost a lot of people who either are second amendment supporters, or freedom supporters. The question is…. are we ALREADY at “war” and just haven’t grasped the fact yet? (Here’s a list):

    25 Members of SEAL Team 6, helicopter shot down/all killed, 8/6/2011 ***
    Andrew Breitbart, heart attack, 3/1/2012
    Christopher Lasseter (witness to Breitbart’s death), missing, date unknown **
    Michael Cormier (on autopsy team of Breitbart), arsenic poisoning, 4/20/2012 **
    Mark Craighead (of Crossbreed Holsters), heart attack, 8/24/2012
    Larry Dever (Sheriff of Cochise County, AZ – strong anti-illegal immigrant stance, supported AZ SB1070), single car accident, 9/19/2012
    Keith Ratliff (producer of the FPSRussia YouTube channel), shot in back of the head, 1/3/2013
    John Noveske, single car accident, 1/4/2013
    Aaron Swartz, suicide after being prosecuted for computer crimes, 1/11/2013 *
    Chris Kyle, shot by PTSD suffering vet, 2/2/2013
    Chad Littlefield (associated with Chris Kyle), shot by PTSD suffering vet, 2/2/2013 **

    and while not dead Mas Ayoob survived a recent helicopter crash on 1/26/2013.
    * Not known to be “right leaning” but believed to be “pro-freedom”
    ** Political leanings unknown, though related to right-leaning causes/people
    *** Political leanings unknown

    • taarealitycheck I just have no unique information to be able to comment with any kind of knowledge on any of this. My inclination is to ask how effective any and all of these names have been at creating vulnerabilities for the regime that would warrant such a drastic and risky response.

      • dcodrea; I believe Mr. Bracken and examine that list and come up with a response on a scale most of us might not want to believe. I think he has something in one of his articles, or in one of his books (I can’t recall the precise quotes now, or exact reference) but why “take out” the big names in talk radio, when the smaller, lesser known “movers and shakers” are shaking things up and “won’t be missed” as much.

        Might have been in one of his “Enemies” books that suggested something along these lines.

        Mr. Bracken can you perhaps examine the question and give a response?

        (Also, thanks to all those on the panel participating!!)

  45. As far as “dry fire rifle drills,” I think that’s a cool idea. I can’t attend public events, I get to wound up, and in today’s climate, I’d give them a l egal handle to grab me with. Incitement, or something. Jaywalking. As long as I stick to novels and essays and short fiction that I post freely, I should be good to go, right? First Amendment, and all that.

    Another “public space” idea I have is to start a movement to get 2A supporters to wear gun logo ball caps to the max in public. Half of us already have an old NRA, Winchester or Glock ball cap, right? And the rest of us can get them easily. Let’s “show our colors” with “gun gear” in public. And if you don’t have a cap on but see a fellow who does, greet him with a thumbs up and a hearty “stick to your guns” or whatever. If you both have caps, shake hands, and if nothing else, exchange the best websites for finding ways to defend freedom.

    I think would make an awesome statement if millions of us were walking around with Glock and COLT ball caps on, shaking hands, greeting, and perhaps mentioning an upcoming “Dry Fire Rifle Drill.”

  46. For the last 11 years, we have been engaged in the “nice” war…I agree 100% with Matt Bracken. Regardless of any imaginary “line which shall not be crossed”, once firearms are collected, there is no line which will not be crossed. Practice, practice, practice, grow your own food, get as independent as possible, even if it means relocation.

    • Yes to all of that. Better to suffer relocation now on your own terms, than later when the choice is a highway “Public Safety Checkpoint” up ahead, near where all of those buses are parked.

  47. Thanks for answering my previous question folks. Very much in line with my own thinking but sometimes folks need to hear it from the respected voices before it sinks in. So given the concensus that things would be best “locally grown” which gives me some ideas for tie ins with the “locally grown” produce movement by the way, how do we bootstrap that?
    I spoke with Concerned American about a logistics exercise and the problems that are associated with that. How do we get the community to put aside fantasies and begin to really grok the problems we are facing building true realistic resistance. That cuts across a wide scope, everything from safe houses, escape and evasion to alternative media and communications. Its a huge undertaking and I dont think we as a community REALLY have thought beyond the basics. I think the majority just expect that one day they will simply “know” that the flag has gone up and magic logistics farries will deliver them an intact intel network and Walmart-like supply chain.

    • I think “we” who are here as panelists have already found the niche where we can bring what we offer to maximum effect and maintain our enthusiasm for doing it–with overflowing plates, by the way–you should see what I’m responding to in real time that has nothing to do with this discussion. What you’re describing sounds very much like what I see being disseminated here on WRSA, but perhaps consolidating things under a “Realistic Resistance” banner with further categorizations and even a lesson plan would be a resource someone with a passion and talent for such things could put together and maintain. Typically, I volunteer the guy who suggested it in the first place…:-)

    • Set up a kickstarter (or whatever) for a Liberty project – test the crowdsource power available.
      Trade networks are ready to go via USPS and Bitcoin.
      Dropboxes for intel can be put into the Tor cloud.

      There are plenty of projects you can both do from your desk AND not go fulltime terr’ist.

      • Stay close to us. We don’t know what you know. Combining skills and talents is essential at this time. Attribution means nothing, only effective counter meme dissemination, ASAP. You can email me via my website and I hope we take it from there. We must all be our own Andrew Breitbart now, and not wait for instructions, but “ride to the sound of the guns.”

      • Yep, tor definitely should be more utilized as this moves forward.

    • Start little, start easy. Wearing our gun caps in public, for example. If we can’t start an easy movement like that on every gun board, we can forget about dry fire rifle drills. Let the ball caps, or another easy signal, show our grass roots strength. Remember when Glen Beck adn others put out the call to buy from ChikFilet on one certain day? Even the Quising MSM was forced to cover it.

    • Grenadier,
      What you speak of has been my dilemma for quite a while. I came to the conclusion that no one out there has a real plan for uniting and or logistics etc. So Ive taken it on myself to start in my ao. I believe this is the only way its ever gonna happen. Think leaderless resistance. Think small cells. Lets say everyone on here is working in their own lives to put together a close knit group of six or seven guys, preparing, training, educating, planning. Then lets
      say one person from each group starts networking with all the other people who represent their own groups. You get what Im saying? I b commo between all the groups and a basic set of sops not rules as i believe the groups should

      • Sorry wrong button. To finish i was going to say we need a way for everyone whos got a group to be able to communicate, brainstorm and be able to alert eachother in the event of something going down.

    • Begin to secede on your own: start a small cash business in your community, support other ones as much as you can, trade, barter, add value all over the place, and as you can, turn away from large scale entanglements. Check out Catherine Austin Fitts about local, small scale investing, also Google “slow food” & “slow money”. and just build your clan and community your own small, quiet, quality life.

  48. We are where we are because of these creatures: http://heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html

    The common denominator between the gun-grabbers, the moneychangers, the Hollywood and media control, our universities as Frankfurt Schule indoctrination centers, etcetera and so on is undeniable.
    Until this problem is recognized and effectively dealt with there can be no change.
    I can name the enemy; can you?

    • Okay, here come the Jew-haters,speaking in easy riddles. So, are you the “there was no holocaust” guy today, or the “Hitler didn’t finish the job” guy?

      Later, y’all.

      • Don’t worry Matt, during the bonus round, we’ll get to skim the dross like this. Man will be assessed by his heart and his actions. I should be dreading what’s coming but there are times I almost get giggly thinking about it. Is that wrong?

      • You aren’t getting off the hook that easy Matt.
        “Try this approach on your Fox News Republicans:

        Ask them if they can help to explain something to you – because you can’t seem to understand something and that you’re coming to them because you know that they probably know – because, after all, they watch Fox News….and they’re “Republicans”.

        Lay out the money system scam and then ask them what part of your world the money scammers aren’t manipulating.

        Ask them who made it legal for Foreign Nationals to hold political office in the US.

        Ask them if Fox News explained this to them.

        Ask them which US Senators hold a foreign passport and have SWORN AN OATH OF ALLEGIANCE to a FOREIGN NATION.

        Ask them who “isn’t lying”.

        Senator GunGrabber is a Foreign National. Can you guess what country she is a citizen of? The Mayors of both New York and Chicago are also Foreign Nationals. Can you guess what country they are citizens of? Most of the (s)elected officials who seek to disarm America are also either actual passport holding citizens of that foreign nation or are “eligible” for citizenship in that nation.”

      • I agree with Matt Bracken on this. Anybody who’s into group hatred by definition doesn’t respect individual rights. Anybody who doesn’t respect individual rights isn’t working for freedom. Eff ‘em.

        • We’re going to need get over some differences between ourselves. For example, I’ve got a new friend who I never thought I’d be friends with today (our paths never crossed) because he’s much older than I (maybe wiser due to age). He’s a Mormon and I’m a Catholic. Labels will mean nothing. We actually rag on each other for the laugh of it all. So what. Do I care about those differences when it comes to surviving this mess? No. It will be about good vs. evil. He’s helped me along and I’ve helped him. All the other stuff is distractions and used to divide. He wants to protect his family and I want to mine. It’s that simple in my eyes.

  49. I have a few points to make so please bear with me if I get long winded. #1 I end all of my posts with “It has already started they just don’t know it yet” and on one level I believe that to be true. Rebellion is a state of mind, not physicality and I think that enough people are in open rebellion,even without the use of arms, that this will only gather momentum.There is no life as usual when your mindset is that you are a rebel and are dedicated to the cause. #2 How do you know that it hasn’t started yet? Do you think the MSM is going to broadcast isolated attacks from around the country? Only if it could be used to frame us in a bad light.Google explosives or explosion and hit news. There are people getting swatted weekly for possessing and manufacturing explosives. A lot of them are leftists, so it seems they have plans on their side also. My final point is that events need to be organized regionally to bring people together. Networks are going to be one of the most important parts if anything does go down. Food, shelter, supplies etc. need to be networked into areas. Right now everyone is disparate and scattered. Without some type of unity we cause ourselves a serious hardship in the event that they make a push in a big and hard manner.

  50. Agreed, surround yourselves with like minded people. Don’t waste your time on drones. Build networks. People look at you funny after mentioning what you know to be true, then move on. I’ve got old friends that no longer deal with me out of my choice and/or theirs, but I have new ones that see what’s potentially coming.

  51. Carl Bear, I hear you. I am not optimistic. The big reset is coming when the worldwide Cisco sytem hiccups and chokes. 50 million EBT cards flashing ERROR, all of that downstream consequence. But even after that, it will be CRITICAL to still be armed. You will need guns to defend against bandits gangs, for sure, in that scenario. In the “FEMA feeding center” scenario they take your guns at table seven before being fed in that big tent over there, near that line of school buses. So in any case, you need to stick to your guns, no matter what, even if your sceario is somewhere on the Mad Max to Martial Law continuum. In no case do folks turn in their guns, and then live happier lives. But in many cases, disarmament is the first necessary step on the way to state genocide. So even in the short term it’s worth fighting every step of the way to keep your guns. If nothing else, you’ll need them for the EBT zombies pouring out of the cities like starving hornets. A starving man can and will walk for 100s of miles. So no matter what, in every scenario, it’s imperative to stick to your guns.

  52. More than combat MOS will be needed. Can anyone recommend training or books for intelligence gathering and processing?

    • You can get a bunch of them, including some old agency manuals, on http://www.scribd.com

    • For sure, three I can recommend stoutly: Resistance to Tyranny, Fernando Aguirre’s Modern Survival Manual, and the new one and the best I’ve seen, “An Absense of Civility” which is “how to defend your neighborhood and survive while a new Dark Ages descends.”

      • Matt, can you check that last one for me? My search could be bad. It’s not a “Failure of Civility” is it by Garand and Lawson?
        Thanks.

        • Sorry, that’s the one I meant. I’m going to write a glowing review for WRSA in the near future. it’s a MUST have.

          • I’ve got the two others in my shopping cart and have great positive reviews. More information to store in the Utah NSA data center I suppose once I click checkout.

            • A needle in a haystack can be found with modern technology.

              So where is the best place to hide a needle? In a pile of needles! (or nails, or sheetmetal, but you get the idea)

              Technology has it’s limits, and the job of the successful resistor is to find and exploit them. A database is only as good as the data in it, and the data are only useful when a person looks at them.

    • Appleseed is a good time and great for networking

    • Carl von Clausewitz

      Mark,

      The hacking / security community has done much with this as it applies to the Interwebs. Check out: http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=videos/derbycon2/mainlist#stable-talks

      There’s some really great information on doing web reconnaissance of networks, people, companies, etc, as well as instructional videos on how to change your appearance, off-grid comms, and other topics. Not all are techno centric.

      For those inclined, there’s a huge community within the same security community that will teach you how to pick locks, and basically break every type of physical or cyber security out there, generate intel, whatever.

  53. “What am I going to do when they come to my door?”
    THAT is the question everyone needs to ask themselves, BEFORE that time is here.

    That’s HOW it’s going to go down with many of us. A small group of them, 4 or 5, will come to your door – probably at an inopportune time, maybe when you are sleeping, and you will be accused of a crime that you didn’t even know you committed.

    They will NOT come down your street or road with a convoy of cattle cars and start loading everybody up, they know that will cause lead to fly.

    They will attack each of us individually.

    Individually. Remember that.

    Then, the media will spread the word about you and *fear will be the key* to further unsettle the herd.

    They will only need to arrest a few thousands of us and the rest of the herd will fall inline, sign anything, do anything, so they can go back to grazing comfortably, dumbly.

    Somebody above suggested the herd should get rid of their TEEVEE’s, ain’t gonna happen, otherwise it would have already happened. The TEEVEE is the panacea of the herd. The public schools have dumbed them down and the TEEVEE keeps them that way.

    So, what ARE you gonna do when they come to your door?

    Better figure it out now, cause they are coming.
    Sooner than you think.

    Me?
    I recognize no authority as no one has the right to dictate another.
    If anyone accosts me anywhere there will be hell to pay right on the spot.
    It’s really always been this way, but some have been trained to believe otherwise.
    Don’t think so? Pick up a paper.
    You’ll see instances everyday where people were accosted and were unprepared, and paid the ultimate price for their unpreparedness.

    Mano y mano, man qua man, individual vs individual.
    Not, us against them, or tribe vs tribe.

    You vs him.

    He will attack you.
    Will you defend yourself?
    Or will you do as they’ve trained you since the day you were born?

    Seeya on the otherside…..onward.

  54. ok, a BASIC question here, since we are discussing preparation…..
    I need to stock up on food, but what to get? do i go with the dehydrated 25 year shelf life foods that require WATER (which could be an issue) or should i stock up on canned goods. And what PARTICULAR items should i get–what provides the most nutrient for the cost?

    • I will respond. I’ve been a “survivalist” for a long, long time. Don’t go buy dehydrated survival foods. Spend your time, and your money examining your normal, daily fare. Every time you shop, buy a little extra, a few cans of this or that, throw in some beans, rice and other already-dehydrated (and CHEAPER-than-survival foods) and add that to your supplies. Water: you have small amounts in your house already, hot water tank, toilet tanks. Add some blue water barrels, rotate your stock every few months – we added a hot tub (450 gals of water to use NOW if necessary)…. there’s more, but this isn’t the place.

    • I’ve heard you don’t want dehydrated for that purpose alone and also the amount of salt and or other preservatives. Others may know. You probably want Freeze Dried. Dailybread is one I’ve heard of and they have different levels of calorie options along with number of months based on number in your herd. If you know you’ll rotate your stock, then canned goods might be your thing. Either way I think you’ll need water? Ask some folks from hurricane sandy.

    • Anonymous — I’ve addressed basic food supply for beginners here:

      http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/2012/10/19/preparedness-priorities-part-iii/

      First thing, especially if you don’t have a lot of money, is to gradually lay in supplies of ordinary grocery store foods. Then familiar, but storable, things like rice & beans. Only after you have a month orthree of those should you focus on things marketed as “storage foods.” But educate yourself well about them. Expecting them just to sit on a shelf for five, 10, or 25 years could result in some nasty surprises when you really need them.

      The question about nutrients has been dealt with at a number of sites around the ‘Net. Google is your friend.

      But much more important — especially for the first days, weeks, or month after any disaster — is what can you prepare? and what will you and your family eat?

      Familiar and easy are your friends.

  55. As to training. I’m no high speed operator but I can learn some things, this coyote isn’t so old his teeth are blunt. This recent letter by the 1000 plus SF men really gave me some hope. If they’re out there, teaching 10 rednecks in flyover country each, then the Elites and would be masters have one hell of a problem. An army of saber-toothed fleas is out there, just waiting to be created.
    Mosbey, Lizard and a few others do training and I’m going to try like hell to make it to one of their classes, but we need the others to step up and impart what they’ve learned, too.
    Teach us. We need the skills and confidence boost.

  56. When it starts, and when action takes place, what ways will there be to let others know some resistance type of action has taken place. For example, say a local man goes missing, but turns out he worked for TSA or something. Local papers just say it’s a mystery.

    How do we broadcast the news to other like minded folks without incriminating anyone? Would some sort of blog roll that is only to be commented on using TOR based tech be something feasible or is that too out there in the open?

    I think once action begins, it’s important for others to know.

  57. Carl von Clausewitz

    Gentlemen,

    Many of you have deep insight to the covert areas of government. What level of capability and room to maneuver do you feel the regime has, before they must come into the open to initiate violence? Understanding the capability of opfor forces is critical now. Once they initiate attacks fully in the open though, the game will change significantly, since we’ll be able to bring more assets to the defense.

    The government during 9/11, rendition programs and hell, sandy hook, seems to have serious limitations in it’s ability to operate covertly. Chalmers Johnson wrote about that in his book Nemesis on how CIA aircraft were tracked by tail-numbers. They cannot operate in secret conducting assassinations or what-have-you forever. What is the covert capability? 100 men, with CIA assets, and co-opted Mexican cartel joint forces? What do you think their depth is and their forces morale/ committment?

  58. Reblogged this on Truth, Lies and In Between and commented:
    Important gun conversation. Please check it out.

  59. What would your strategic plan be if you were “advising” the current regime how to implement it’s final push for their “utopian” dictatorship on Amerika? How do you see this geographically being implemented by militarized “Civilian Security Forces”?

    • 1. I’d tell ‘em, “Hey guys, just do exaaaaactly what you’re doing now. It’s working really, really well. All the people who count are with you 100%. And oh BTW don’t worry about those few malcontents. They’re just a bunch of toothless old white guys who’ll die off soon enough.” Then I’d watch as the big-gov utopians walked into the trap.

      2. Not sure I understand your question about “Civilian Security Forces”?

      • TSA,DHS,Brownshirts,Vipr,etc… How would you expand and deploy those assets strategically and geographically, if planning for a “clamp down” on civil liberties for some rapidly approaching “false flag”? What should we look for to idicate their plan has reached the point of final preparations for the “clamp down”? We know when the US Military will be patrolling the cities, it’s too late. Strategically, what would be the first indication of TPTB have decided the final push for their “Utopia”…

  60. I really like the idea recently floated about large, open meetups for (dry) training and networking – do it without regard to “OPSEC” and completely legal, with seminars, lectures, drills and food…

    • Jo – It may be ‘legal’, but have you not heard about FBI ‘Cointel’? You’ll be infiltrated immediately, everyone involved will be on a list by the weekend, and then some other infiltrators will start to agitate. Eventually at least the organizers or apparent leaders will be arrested on false charges which will be a) a result of entrapment, or b) outright lies that will take years to even try to disprove. They also start internal problems whenever they can.

      That’s not to say ‘don’t do this’, just a warning about what to expect. There are no good ways to ID these infiltrators either, and no effective ways to deal with them that are legal. If you ‘out’ one, you just end up with another. They will even blackmail people you trust if they can find something that will work on them. You may want to try to find a book called War At Home, by Brian Glick, for more information. I believe it’s still available online somewhere.

      • This is the kind of fear that keeps people hidding behind their couches listning for black helos.

        • Yes, some it does. Others who aren’t so afraid do, however, need to be aware of what is likely to happen. You are safer when you know what to expect. “Nuff said? Or need I reiterate: “just a warning about what to expect”?

  61. From Mike and Jack:

    2) How did we get there?

    Question # 2

    Have we come to current situation due to wearing blinders or just plain laziness?

    Maybe that’s some of it, but there’s another factor.

    Both of Mike and Jack have gone through extensive schooling on how the communists use Psychological Operations to win a conflict without the expense of one bullet.

    PsyOps… the communists, socialists, collectivists, or by whatever word you want to label them, are experts at this.
    Americans are bombarded daily by a leftist news media. The leftists have infiltrated and taken control of every new organization and are spewing the ‘news’ based on the “Goebbels Directive” …tell a lie enough times and people will begin to see it as the truth.

    The mind can’t accept the news as logic and it creates apathy to confront it. Add to that… ‘Political Correctness,’ which is “Tyranny with Politeness,” and Americans feel muzzled to confront this twisted news.

    We see the average American opposed and angered by this assault on our Constitutional rights constantly quoting the same news media outlets for fact that they know are spewing disinformation and lies daily on other issues.

    So why believe anything from these major ‘news’ sources? Why would an American believe ANYTHING from the same news media that wants to make Americans believe that HALF this country wants socialism (communism)?

    That’s bulls#!t and that’s PsyOps folks!

    As a simple comparison, why would you believe any one statement as being truthful from a person who you knew was a pathological liar?

    The saying goes that “Kids are the best psychologists” …they can see through the bulls#!t… and they do. For the most part, the youth of this country don’t accept what they’re being told as readily as we “adults.” That’s been our observation of young adults.

    Whatever you think of Nixon, his speechwriters coined the term of “The Silent Majority.” Americans must no longer be silent… we must become vocal to oppose these minority interests that appear to be the majority regardless of the cost.

  62. Ironwill, there is no “secret way to meet” or anything like that. I assume that every word I type to anybody, is searchable at will by the boys and girls down in the fusion centers. As long as they remember thair sworn oaths, no problem. OTOH, if the fusion centers turn into something like SNA intel centers, to develop arrests lists for “Consitution fanatics” who don’t understand what “fundamental transformation” means, then we’ll know when we look around and voices are missing. It must be a thorn in their side to hear Rush and Glen and Sean and Mark and Laura every day. On the Hugo Chavez plan, they need to be silenced.

    1. If they start gun confiscation raids, not just tests and probes but widesperead confiscation raids, war has been declared. (2A)

    2. If they knock the anti-statists off o the radio and internet waves, war has been declared. (1A)

    That’s how you will know. There may be other signal events, but those are two for sure.

  63. I don’t have much to add.

    There are some “preps” that, when you need them, it is too late, and there is no way to get them. PT is one of those things. Training is another.

    The most important “prep” one could hope to secure “ahead of time,” is peace with the Almighty God. There is ample opportunity to secure this now. There will come a time when it will be too late.

    Stand.
    Resist.

    Justin
    The blogger formerly known as “AP”.

  64. Re LFMayor: The basic role of SF is to train/organize local insurgents – and there are way more than 1000 out there…

  65. Carl von Clausewitz

    I’ll ask another question that transitions from my previous question. Do you feel (in your gut) the people in-the-know from the regime are operating from a strategic plan, OPORD style, to a specific end e.g. fascist totalitarianism, or Inverted totalitarianism? Or do you feel they are on the run, pulling every piece of debris between themselves and the people to try to save themselves?

    Also, Matt, I’d like your thoughts on my previous question that David responded to as well. Thanks so much!!!

    • Carl, I’m not sure which response you meant.

    • I will stick my nose into this, because I have given it considerable thought, and I think that the present situation is simply the result of Pournelle’s Iron Law in action. Everything going on right now is the result of various government apparatchiki simply trying to preserve the status quo. If you are perceived as an existential threat to the organization then the organization will treat you as an enemy. There is no grand strategy of oppression, it is much more like a biological reaction to infection. The organisms which make up government see us as ‘not-self’ and as a lethal threat to the existence of that governmental organism.

      • And thus government proves itself a lethal antagonist to individuals and their freedom.

        • To continue the biological analogy, to a tumor, white cells (among them neutrophils) are the enemy, but they have to be primed to function. What we are doing is analogous to inducing neutrophil priming. There is no doubt that the Federal government has dangerously metastasized.

        • Indeed, the government is a lethal threat and growing more so by the minute, but there is more to it than that. To put this another way, CA, the government is itself creating the enemy that they fear. Rather like Voldemort in the Harry Potter books, government, through each department’s desire to maintain and expand their power, is creating a force that can utterly destroy them. In well under 25 years, the present Federal Government of these united States will not exist in anything remotely approaching it’s present avatar. That is mathematically, economically and politically certain.

          The question is, what will replace it?

          Will we allow what once was the greatest civilization in known human existence to crumble into tribalism or feudalism, or will we rebuild on the strong foundations of the concepts of individual rights, of Life, Liberty, Property, of the right for each of us to pursue happiness?

          When I was younger, I watched Neil Armstrong step onto the surface of another world. I have never lost the sense of wonder I had that day, at the power of the minds of free men, at the infinite abundance of the universe, and I will never give up the dream of seeing what a truly self reliant and free America might be like. Let’s each live that dream and make it real!

      • So what is the fancy name for the phenomenon whereby since we are treated like an infection, we now think of the government as a cancer? What is that, other than the results of stupidity and elitism, and the law of unintended consequences?

      • This is key. Those that look for a conspiracy under every rock miss the point that it doesn’t take a conspiracy to make government dangerous and antithetical to liberty. It is the nature of government.

        The Founding Fathers knew this and warned us about it but people are willfully ignorant. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance but vigilance is WORK.

  66. Late to the party, sorry.
    There are three events which are pivotal: the establishment of the Federal Reserve and the 16th amendment, which two events allowed control of the credit of the USA and the money supply into the hands of a private cartel; and the establishment of state run state funded public education, whose primary function is to indoctrinate the young into nonresistance and compliance with government diktat.

    As regards what to do, Mr. Bracken’s recommendation of Martino’s “Resistance to Tyranny” is an excellent primer. “leaderless resistance” is a great tool to use in areas where FreeFor is a significant minority, and more overt training/organizing is better in more supportive areas.

    probably the most important piece is education and recruitment, as Martino put it the Overt Resistance. This ought to include both adult recruitment and the re-establishment of private tutoring and academies to teach children and adults alike the rich history of the Enlightenment and America. This serves several useful purposes. Such an educational program probably ought to have several layers.

  67. Reading, weighing, and learning. Thanks Pete for this opportunity to gauge the resolve and knowledge of this panel.

  68. I want give a big thank you to CA for hosting this and the panel for taking the time to answer. I know everybody is busy and appreciate you all taking the time to do it.

    • Thank you, CDP. And definitely thanks to CA and WRSA. I wasn’t sure how this was going to work, but seems to be doing pretty well.

      Thank you all. Wish the world were as wise as the folks here.

  69. I want to thank WSR, Dave, TL, and Clair for their gracious courage and sharing their convictions. It is in a word heartwarming. I say that because I am, and I believe many feel like we are wandering sometimes in a sea of tyranny, alone in many aspects.

    One thing no one commented on is how are we of Liberty are to coalesce into more than isolated people with the same concerns and principles? (Yes I see that it is the truth about how we are folks who want to live and let live.) I understand that is a monumental endeavor, and maybe it will only come about as events become dire.

    Guess what I’m asking is how solidarity develops in the context of our times and circumstances? Some insights into the dynamics could be helpful to seeing the way?

    I see the solidarity and purpose of the forces of tyranny united, insidious as it is. We of Liberty can not hope to match the resources our prosperity has been used to create. Such an incredible affront to our dignity and liberty in itself. Yet none the less, I believe no material things can ever supplant what lies in the hearts of people who cherish Liberty.
    How do we, of Liberty, make the leap of faith that brings us together in a fashion were our collective might becomes the force required to defeat the forces of darkness within our system of government.

    • My two cents:

      – Anyone who visits sites such as those run by the participants has already taken the leap of faith. Know that there are dozens like you within a half-tank’s drive of your residence. The trick is to find them.

      – Part of finding them is building your own strength and skills — most certainly not just in shooting.

      – The hardest part is being the first two dancers:

      http://sivers.org/ff

      Watch this video several times.

      Be leaders.

      Or early followers.

      Have courage.

      Know that you are right (while keeping space to accept being wrong, where the facts support that reality).

      Encourage others.

      Be kind.

      Yet at the same time harden your hearts.

      You will need both kindness and harsh toughness to prevail.

      Resist.

      No matter what.

      • With utmost respect, CA, ‘Faith’ has nothing to do with it. The only path that does not lead to a new dark age for humanity is a restoration of the ideals of the Enlightenment and that is *MY* goal. A good first step would be a restoration of limited government under the US constitution. Regardless of it’s shortcomings, and there are many, the power of the ideal of the Constitution is immense, and we must use it to win this battle. This is, as I have said many times before, first and foremost a war of ideas, and it is there that we will win this battle, and ultimately win the war. I, therefore, follow the only path that leads where I wish to go, regardless of how difficult it may be or the dangers that encroach upon that path. If I wish to think of myself as a free man, I must rise to defend what makes me so, and my resistance to tyranny is therefore purely logical. (My late Mother always said I should have been a lawyer…)

        If we do not win this battle in that war the dark ages that will come upon us will last longer than I am prepared to accept. I rise to defend the Light and resist the darkness because I value the Light, because I value what it is to be truly human, and because I *must* rise to defend the values I hold most dear. I cannot sit by and watch my values be destroyed. I will not surrender to barbarism and savagery, to collectivism or tribalism or progressivism, and I will not be governed by fear.

        Frightened? Only a fool would not be.

        But that does not mean that I will not resist the darkness to the limit of my ability. In every sphere of action.

      • Followup-

        (Computer crashed at just the wrong time.)

        I agree with the importance of following. None of these ideas are new; we are followers in the footsteps of others in that regard.
        In fact, with the exception of taking things on faith, i concur completely.

    • #1: STYG. Stick to your guns, no matter what. No second guesses from the next train to the Gulag.
      #2: Keep an eye out even for small things like ball caps and car stickers. Greet those brothers in liberty, like Roman Christians drawing “fish” grafitti.
      #3: don’t let small fear now overwhelm needed action. Now is when the Leviathan is trying to cow us into submission, don’t give them that unearned victory! We are already on every list, what’s left on that side? Nothing! RESIST OPENLY! Be brave, even when you don’t feel brave, if for no other reason than to encourage bravery in the others. There is a reeason why young officers went “over the top” with just a whistle and a pistol. To bee seen. At this point, even a coal mine canary is a hero. Glen Beck pointing his finger at Leviathan every day, love him or hate him, he as signed his name in BIG letters to the Constitution! And we all need to do the same. Be brave, if only to give an example of bravery to the young, the uninformed, and the wavering! This fight is not over. Sometimes, fights take a long time. How long did it take the Christians to expel the Moors from Spain? Centuries. Does that mean every early loss should have meant quitting the struggle? Every grave on the path to ultimate victory a waste?

      You know the answer.

  70. Very good exercise and idea!

  71. Any comments on the high level replacements in military leadership occuring under the current regime? Generals, Admirals, SF commanders, etc… being replaced one by one during the current administration? Coincidence? Is there any truth to the so-called “Litmus” test for military leaders about firing on American citizens?

    • Garrow seems credible but who knows until his source comes forward? I don’t get it, because if I had that kind of information, I’d feel not only honor-bound to come forward, but I’d feel that’s my best guarantee for safety–unless they’ve already gotten to him (assuming this is true in the first place). It’s been evident since David Hackworth’s time, and actually before that, but he’s the one who coined the term “perfumed princes,” that the very top brass has been placed there with political considerations in mind. It’s like, find a major urban police chief who isn’t a total tool. My only observation about the military would be to note that when unanticipated change happens, it seems to be colonels who lead it…the top guys need subordinates who know how to make things happen, and the ones who rise to rank based on ability rather than connections don’t always share in their agenda.

    • As David points out, the senior officer positions have been politicized for the most part for a long time. The real question is where the loyalties of the senior NCOs lie. Those are the men who will lead the troops. History teaches that most coups are organized by the sergeants and the colonels. If the sergeants back The Document, Freefor has a powerful ally.

      • Interestingly enough I just got a phone call 30 minutes ago from an actively serving Army buddy (E-7) who is counting down until retirement due to the climate change in the Army. He had just concluded a discussion with a Major he works with and was so shocked he had to call me right away to vent. The major knows my buddy is a strong 2A advocate and the major wanted to ask why “civilians” needed “assault rifles” (major’s words). My buddy gave him a crash course on the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment and he said the major got irate, started screaming and said, and I quote: “fuck the Constitution.”

        I’m sure glad I got out when I did because I couldn’t put up with that nonsense.

        • Majors have usually done a tour at the War College, and sometimes at the 5 sided puzzle palace. There, they either learn the political game and learn to like the stench, or learn the game and are revolted by it. Sounds like this Major is a prospective General!

          I may have to do a parody of Gilbert and Sullivan’s parody “I am the very model of a modern Major General…..”

          But seriously, this is actually a good thing. The OpFor is sorting out the sheep and the billygoats for us. We want the people who honor their oaths and can think; they can have the others. Remember the story of Gideon’s Band? Judges chapter 6 to 8. I won’t bore you with the details, but it is worth a read, even for the non-religious. Appears human nature has not changed much in over 3000 years.

        • As a currently serving senior NCO, I can sympathize with his situation. I have been debating whether to stay in or retire as I am very close to my 20. But it has become clear to me that I can no longer in good conscience stay in when I know where this is going. Thankfully I haven’t run into anyone like the MAJ, but I do get a sense that there are some like him even in my battalion. On the positive side, I know for a fact there are many, especially in the mid-grade NCO and junior officer ranks (although less so than the NCOs) that are ardent supporters of the Constitution and the 2A.

          The one group nobody has mentioned so far, however, is the third group, the clueless and/or undecided majority. This is true in society at large and is reflected in the military. My fear is that this group will simply follow orders if things go bad. Sure, some will wake up when that happens and make a choice for good or ill, but I believe the majority of them will just continue to do what they are told because they simply won’t know what else to do.

          • Plant whatever seeds you can, Chuck. They may sprout at surprising times in the future. Pass on whatever you can in terms of history and tradition. If the majority will follow the orders that they get, then it behooves the FreeFor to ensure that they get the right orders, and that the wrong orders are not given.

    • My personal opinion is that IF that is true (and I don’t doubt it much), it probably means they are afraid. The OathKeepers must have rattled some confidence, so rather than risk having entire branches or battalions decline the order, he’s hoping that if the order is pushed down, the grunts will obey. And some certainly will. But others may walk off and join the other team. Now, if you start to see large numbers of retirements from the top ranks, and maybe some funny and untimely deaths, then it’s probably a sign of a shake-up, and TPTB may pull the trigger early out of anxiety.

    • I see the “public kow-tow” as indicative. Like Hagel proclaiming loudly his sorrow and remorse for making an anti-homosexual wisecrack a dozen years ago. More to the point, General Stanley McCrystal, the next “homeland security czar,” making the public kow-tow saying that ordinary peasants have no need for semi-auto rifles, they should be left to the military. That is a statement that he would send his forces to confiscate them, if they are outlawed. IOW, he is an enemy of freedom. I don’t know about Garrow, or his “litmus test,” but it seems to me like McCrystal’s was clear enough for me to copy, loud and clear.

  72. I’d suggest everyone spend some time reading diaries and accounts from Civil and Rev Wars, here and elsewhere. They present incredibly vivid accounts of how communities, markets, networks function during real times of widespread unrest, and with low tech. We imagine total breakdown, but smart people can do amazing things to thrive with very little, and using great alternatives, with quick response times. Communication networks, alternative markets, substituted materials can all go a long way not only to making do, but actually becoming part of resistance. For example, there’s alot of talk about building firearms. Who are the machinists in your area? What are their capabilities? What about medical supplies. Who are the distributors in your area? That’s useful info not just for hard times, but to resist Obamacare and create better alternatives. There are often ways to get around the existing barriers by creative people.

    • Make our own firearms? What ever happened to smashing in a helmet and taking THAT enemy’s gun? Or just buy and bury some complete kits now, with spare parts and ammo.

      Get yourselves a bow and learn to use it. And get a recurve for crying out loud – or learn how to repair and tune your compound at home and without any practice time at the range. At least with a recurve you can have extra strings in your pocket and change them in about a minute. AND you can use it to hunt for meat when the sound of any gun would bring in a full platoon to find the source.

    • Yes, Amen, nothing is new under the sun! History rhymes, the patterns are visible to those who understand history.

      • Nothing new indeed. What we are in the middle of right now is the “perturbation” phase described in the “Theory of Dissipative Structures”. Greatly simplified, systems at inception account for and function consistent with all available data. As time passes, more data appears: some fits, some doesn’t, inducing stress, which is absorbed, up to a point. When the stress (non fitting data) becomes enough, the whole thing comes undone, and a new system forms, according to the available data… Now consider: when our Republic started, life moved at horse & buggy speed and the “doubling rate” of knowledge was measured in centuries. Today, life moves at nearly the speed of light, and doubling of knowledge is measured in months. Something (nearly everything?) has to give. The bad news is buggy whip makers are in for a rough time. The good news is that those who appreciate this process are at a huge advantage going forward… two examples of what’s to come: the Internet, and 3D printing. both contain seeds of a new reality barely dreamt of just a few years ago, and are barely a small scratch on a huge surface. Listen to God as you understand Him, and may your tribe increase…

        P.S. A huge thank you to all who have participated here, as well as in all your respective facets/niches in these truly interesting times.

        • When “something gives” this time, it weill be a grand supercycle event. Stay tuned for my next essay, “Alas, Brave New Babylon.” The imbalances are at historical levels, and the reset will involve great pain.

          • I agree, Mr. Bracken. We have had a century of economic distortions and manipulations, 150 years of political divergence (most of it in the last 70 years) and 100+ years of progressive social engineering inflicted upon what was supposed to be a minimalist Constitutional Republic with a free market. The bounceback from that will be the economic, political and social equivalent of a magnitude 10 earthquake.

  73. just waiting

    Unfortunately, I think that many of the things that we consider to be wrong in America are things that others see as right. What we call gov intrusion others see as protection of their comfortable lives. What we see as rights takings, they see as control of the unruly. What we see as freedom, they see as strife.
    MamaLiberty sums it up best by advocating self responsibility, something few today seem to want to consider. I’m an east coaster, where it seems no one is responsible for their own actions or the consequences. There is always someone willing to sue for you for any inconvenience you may suffer.

    Ben Franklin said something about giving up liberty for security, and those who would desrving neither. Today, I don’t think people seek security as much as they seek comfort. As long as their groce stores have food on the shelves and they go home to warm houses and can turn on their lights and tv with no thought, those folks are never going to willingly give that up.

  74. TheGreyWoman

    I like Matt’s idea of the ball caps. I’ll be passing that one on…
    Anyone know where I can get a small printing press? Paper is pretty low tech, I know how to make digital files, expose plates, etc. (BFA in printmaking). Posters in urban areas seem to get ideas/events successfully advertised. Pamplets and papers were a huge contribution of Franklin, prior to hostilities – he helped “wake up” the people. Newsletters & mailing lists for community-wide “groups”…

    • The “word out” idea… I’ve got this image of people like me (in the middle of the country) launching a lot of balloons with various messages to be found across the country. :)

      Also makes a stink when planes see high flying balloons and call ‘em in. lol

    • Yes, ballcaps, posters, pamphlets, photomemes on the internet, sharing articles, creating or sharing youtubes, everything. All of my essays, photomemes etc are intended to be shared as widely as possible.

      • Yep. And be sure to incorporate satire and pertinent snips of truth to illustrate the clowns’ absurdity and irrelevance at every opportunity. Humor is one of our most potent weapons.

  75. David, Claire and Matt – Thank you. As for many of the very informational posts by others – Thank you and keep the ideas coming.

  76. Thank you so much for this forum. I’ve learned a lot from all of you today. I’ve made a list of the books referenced. I’m a single woman and am doing all that I can to be ready. I’ve looked for a few years for a local group that is building a community with the future in mind without luck. Finally decided that I would act as if and trust that we will find each other in that day. You all give me great hope for America. The American spirit is alive and well in you and I’m proud of you! Thanks again for the terrific advice.

  77. One man in a thousand will stand up for what is right.

    Perhaps one man in a hundred will stand up for HIS rights.

    But at least one man in ten will stand and fight when he is wronged.
    We need to educate people on how they have been and are being wronged. Show them the hurt and you will see a different American.

  78. I will be back through the entire thread to close some loops. It will be a good resource, once it’s finished up. Like CA said, it’s important to be brave, to be the first dancers. We are already on all the lists we’ll need to be on, if it comes down to Social Network Analysis warfare. Now is the time to stand tall and brave, and draw the line in the sand over the 2A. That’s why our FF put it in the BOR, to serve as a firewall during times like these.

  79. If it ever comes down to it even the old guys can do something. I may not be able to keep up with the 18 year olds, but there are a lot of little and not so litter steps that can be taken to make life hell when needed

    http://media.portland.indymedia.org/media/2008/10/380525.pdf

    • Just because you can’t keep up with the young guys doesn’t mean you are not useful. Old guys have something young guys don’t. Knowledge and experience.

      • If I fall behind, just know that I’ll buy you time and there will be fewer of them on your tail. I’m getting older, but my plan has always to been to cost my enemy more to get me than they get when they do get me.

  80. This one is in your face and will get conversations going and is from Chris Kyle’s company:

    http://co-store.com/ProductDetails.aspx?tag=_1:48149_2:358147

    On the back:
    “Violence does solve problems”

    • One of my favorite Heinlein quotes:
      “Anyone who clings to the historically untrue and thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.”

      • Read an article the other day in which a retired Marine officer reduced all human interaction to either force or logic. Ironically, armed folks can force would be oppressors to use logic…

  81. The question of the day is “what is our path forward?” I’ve seen a few different lines of though on our current situation and the path forward.

    1) What will happen will happen. Don’t bother to write letters, don’t bother to vote. Political engadgement is not effective so don’t waste your time. Be prepared for the balloon to go up, but don’t try to either hasten or delay it. Black markets, system D, etc. would fit here.

    2) We need to actively fight to turn the country around. Join the NRA, write congress, vote the bastards out. Such actions seem nothing more than a delaying action, especially in light of the nation’s changing demographics. Does this path have any real chance of increasing freedom, or is the best outcome to maintain the status quo?

    2.5) To retain the moral high ground, we must go through all of the “necessary fails” (#2) before moving on to #3. The problem here is how do you know when you have lost? It is very easy to end up the boiling frog.

    3) The only path to freedom is through confrontation, be that violent confrontation or non-violent confrontation. This attitude is exemplified in Patrick Henry’s infamous speech: “But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? . . . Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace, but there is no peace. The war is actually begun!”

    Thoughts?

    • Join the NRA, and wear the hat everywhere, with a cocky smile.
      This is not time to be a “timid Berlin Jew,” leaning over and scrunching his coat up to hide the yellow Star of David. Wear it full size, front and back, and dare them to pull their Kristallnacht. Tell them, “Molon Labe, sucker. When ou feel froggy, jump.” Let THEM worry.

    • Rights not exercised are rights ignored. Speak up, and speak out. Like CA’s video above, get some followers and shake things up a bit. Demonstrations not only show those presently in authority that some of their wage slaves have seen the light, but they attract other potential allies.

      We may not be able to vote ourselves out of the mess we are in, but nobody will ever say that we failed to warn TPTB of what was coming. That alone is worth a lot, knowing that we have done what we can to warn people of what is coming. Also, this is a war of ideas, a war of memes, and you may be amazed at where and when the ideas you plant will sprout. And therein lies a way that we can muster strength.

      WRT “Old Thunderer”, recall also that he also reported to have said “The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery!”

  82. Psalm 91. National day of Prayer. say when. other than all the time.

  83. The Circumstance Of Contemporary America results from the corruption and looting Enabled by the political minions of The Powers That Be.

    Tens of Trillions of dollars LOOTED from US enabled by Congress, but schemed and stolen by TPTB. Look back to 2008 and the beginning of the HUGE Theft Bailouts all put on the back of the American Citizen. Treas Secy Paulson threatening “tanks in the streets” if the selected and favored banks were not “bailed-out”. The phony contract derivative being more effective than a neutron bomb at devastating The Nation. Look at the consolidation of banks and broker-houses. AIG setup to be the conduit and chump for the phony derivative settlements.

    IT All Goes Back To The Money….
    ALL the hell that is being prepared for US is to serve as subterfuge to allow the Looters to escape with all the money they have stolen and assure that America cannot rebuild or resurface for generations. The guy who says, “let’s burn the government building or loot the armory” is minion of TPTB and is fomenting destruction to hide/destroy forensic audit evidence which would prove where the money went and who had motivations to seek to create chaos.

    This ain’t only about Political Betrayal…
    Every attorney who chooses to practice Law understands the perversion of the system and their decision to support and thereby impose Fraud upon those they serve. Physicians understand the similar perversions of Allopathic Medicine and the Big Pharma direction American Medicine took in the 1930s. Big Pharma directs Medical Training and Practice, not to enable higher standards of health to the public. Accountants are similarly culpable. Look at the demise of Arthur Andersen due to their Enron Frauds and the resignation of Government Accounting Office head David Walker. Walker in 2008 decided to retire rather than participate further in the fraud the GAO perpetuates.

    Both houses of Congress are merely puppets and enablers for those who found the creative ways to Loot Our Treasury after they began Corporate Raiding in 1979. Look at those who perpetrated the Looting and advocated creation of mechanisms which enabled it like Junk Bonds, Derivatives, Insurance on Bonds, Insurance on Derivatives. All the Looting has Fraud, Malfeasance, and Betrayal of Fiduciary Duty at its core. (As it’s corp?)

    The only solution to FRAUD is to announce its Discovery and Prosecute the crimes. Failure to do so, under Common Law, means assent and acceptance of the Fraud.

    America has been Defrauded for decades and the issue is Restoration and Reformation. The gun issue is just a means TPTB minions hope to use to get the chaos they seek started….

  84. Pingback: Great discussion today with some of the Liberty movement’s great thinkers at WRSA | Ivy Mike Cafe

  85. Mr. Anonymouse

    Claire Wolfe said, “We may face years, decades, of hardship, oppression, and death. But free people always prevail over those who believe in central control.”

    Don’t you think, however, that technology is a game changer? When we have a true in-your-face surveillance state (though some would say that we have one today), doesn’t that change everything?

    • Tracers go both ways.
      We have plenty of untapped potential here on the Intertubes ourselves, which is just being left on the table.

    • Hell no! Who do you think runs all of that machinery? Humans, and they all took the same oath to defend the Constitution. Some of them might have been laughing and rolling their eyes when they swore the oath, but millions of other took it in deadly earnest. Deadly Earnest.

    • Mr. A. — Just popped in this evening for a final check before shutting down.

      Oh indeed. Technology is a game changer. But I still think it’s a game-changer that favors the young, smart, nimble, and technologically curious over the stodgy and bureaucratic. Look what Anonymous is doing. And even if thousands of individual hackers get busted or killed, more take their place …

  86. Pingback: The Great Pow-Wow | Battlefield USA

  87. I think we’re generally getting a little off target here folks. We are all leaning to fighting, but it may not be necessary as the evolving discussion had envisioned it. Let me explain my statement with some more or less connected thoughts, please. And read all of this – I could be wrong and I will consider anything you might have to say to disprove my thoughts.

    1) general civil disobedience to anti-gun laws may very well stop that effort. The states can none of the afford general enforcement because most are nearly bankrupt now due to the state of the economy. Even the feds do not have the manpower or money to search all the homes, confiscate all the guns, and arrest all gun owners. We can bury guns, ammo and magazines, we can refuse to register, we can simply decline to turn in anything do anything to support any of those agendas

    2) a 30 year old estimate on gun owners is 80 million. I saw one a few years ago that said 140 million gun owners in the US. If we assume that 2/3 of 314 million are adults, that means there are some 208 million adults. So there are either 1 in 3 or 2 out of 3 adults who are gun owners in this nation. Since the low estimate is 30 years old, I’ll go with 140 million. Assuming many of those are married, as are many of the non-owners, that is probably 2/3 to 3/4 of all households in the US that have guns

    3) the numbers are probably higher. Many of us lie about ownership if polled by stranger

    4) there is no way any state, or the US in general, can jail that many wage earners. Not only would the economy collapse completely due to all the jobs not being performed, but the incarceration and prosecution costs would be astronomical, not to mention all the families that would need assistance and SNAP, and all the homes that would get foreclosed, hurting the bankers behind the entire scheme anyway

    5) the feds are more likely to be concerned about our guns as an obstacle to population control in the event of some crisis than they are about just taking them for ‘general purposes’ of prepping for the NWO. Not that the reason matters much, but I don’t see them exactly spoiling for a fight with 140 million gunners – or even a tenth of us.

    6) the most likely (IMO, of course, as I’m not gifted with Prophecy) scenario for martial law or other fed offensives is some other kind of breakdown – a global collapse of banking, the announcement from the Saudis that all the wells are actually completely dry, a giant pandemic – something that will require some kind of ‘support and control’ measures, and which will provide plausible deniability to the gun-grab the NWO would absolutely need in order to take over

    7) once the crisis hits, all federal resources and most local ones will be busy as a dog with two dicks in places like NYC, Chicago and LA. Those big cities are where most all the welfare checks get sent and spent. With a 3-day supply of groceries in the stores, how long do you think it will be before those towns are on fire? Remember, the groceries will stop if there is a fuel shortage, or an inability to transfer payments, either way, so banking crisis, breakdown of commodities markets, crop failure, fuel shortage, pandemic – any of these and more can stop the supply of food

    8) with all available military, fed agency and local busy in the nearby cities, those of you in rural areas will be pretty much left on your own – unless you want to help fight the fight in the cities

    OK, I’m kind of out of gas at this point. If you see ‘faulty thinking’ here, please reply – but please think about my post first and stick to that. I don’t want to waste time discussing real planning with someone off in left field, but I’m open to someone pointing out that I’m missing something. But don’t get excited either – I’ve been watching the news since 1970 when the government shot my fellow students at Kent State, and you’re unlikely to tell me anything I don’t know. You might, but I bet 90% of you who comment won’t have any ‘news’ for me. OTOH, I’m always open to someone suggesting something I missed or hadn’t considered.

    Your turn….

    • Oops. That was supposed to be “…fed agencies and local cops will be busy….”. Moderator, can you fix that please? Sorry.

    • Reverend:

      Whether or not the new AWB gets passed, it is mathematically certain that there will be an economic collapse of some sort. When? Don’t know. How bad? Don’t know. When that happens, the regime will seek to preserve it’s base of support, which means large metropolitan areas.

      In order to do that they will need to do these things, in priority order:
      1) preserve the power grid;
      2) ensure delivery of water and disposal of sewage;
      3) maintain control of the media;
      4) ensure delivery of food.
      5) Ensure delivery of sufficient fuel to keep the OpFar mobile.

      #4 is where I think your assessment breaks down. TPTB undoubtedly have a plan to ensure food delivery to the cities, and to use food as a weapon against the ‘flyover bitter clingers.’ So your thought that the rural areas will be left alone are wishful thinking, at least those which produce food or oil.

      • I did ask for feedback Historian, and thanks. But I disagree. The food supply will be coming from the factory farms, they’ll secure those. But if you are remote, and on your own place, you’ll probably be safe. Based on your handle, I’m sure you’ve noticed that the more remote and rugged your terrain, the less likely Rome will commit the resources to go after you. You won’t be jailed – because even if they want to confiscate your supplies they can’t run your farm which means it’s a one time deal if they jail or kill you. And there isn’t enough manpower to ‘hold down’ the countryside not in the entire federal government. Remember some fed employees won’t play that game. So I still think that from a tactical point of view they will work on pacifying the cities. Maybe some ‘agency guy’ here can shed some light on our discussion?

        And oh how easy it will be to mess with that effort if need be – given that all those supplies are going to be moved on roads or rails out in the boonies.
        I don’t know about Chicago or other major cities, but the last time I looked at a map, there were 7 bridges and 2 tunnels providing ALL access to NYC that didn’t come from Long Island. THAT is a relatively easy supply line to cut. I think that most cities could be jammed up really well if the interstates became a ‘non-option’, and ‘jammed up’ will equal food shortages. Some stuff would spoil on its way in if they got delayed.

      • Semper Fi, 0321

        We’re looking at a multifaceted collapse, no matter what or how it happens. Gun control, racial (Zimmerman trial), economic collapse, another massive flu epidemic, drought and food shortages, power grid goes down, war in middle east, etc, etc. You get my point. Any one thing can trigger a series of issues that finally make it impossible for the nation to survive, whether accidental or deliberate. No matter how badly we want to wish this away, we have reached a point of unsustainability, and collapse is eminent.
        The first issue is survival of the individual and group. Take care of yourself first, get all the gear you need and LEARN to use it. Some of you are still in denial on how bad it can get, or that not everyone in the family is on board with the issues at hand. Prepare to defend yourself from friends and family who will panic when TSHTF. Just as a drowning man will drag you down, trying to claw his way over your head to use you as a bouyancy device, or rat you off to buy favoritism from authorities.
        Time to harden yourselves, no matter what, it’s not gonna be easy. And the world’s full of cowards who look for the weak fish to prey on first. Don’t be a guppy.

    • “8) with all available military, fed agency and local busy in the nearby cities, those of you in rural areas will be pretty much left on your own – unless you want to help fight the fight in the cities”

      Rural folks job = deny and interdict OPFOR logs before it reaches the cities thereby forcing them to begin consuming resources that the populace needs (fuel, food, etc.) thereby generating anti-OPFOR sentiment. It also increases the requirement for him to secure his logs and trains thereby sapping combat power and increasing his OPTEMPO to an almost unsustainable level. ;)

  88. Gigi – I’m the same as you – single Mom of 2 young girls and very VERY concerned about what is to come – stuck in California due to custody and without a tribe. Concerned that joining local militia will only make me a target. Feel very trapped.

    • Remember, your mind is the weapon.

      Try attending some local Tea Party meetings, or find a C4L meeting, or see if the local shooting range has an open house day.

  89. But Matt, are you going to answer the seven questions the others answered? Or did you already and i can’t find them.

  90. Great thread, made it to the end! Hope lots of wavering patriots read it.

  91. Well, I’m late to the party as usual, but if any of the SME’s are still around, maybe you can give me some input on a random thought I had while reading some of the comments here;
    Regarding the “Looting” in regards to the financial status of this country, what if it’s all just about a big heist?
    The one thing that has always been completely unfathomable to me is “why” TPTB would want to go to such ends to grab so much control- maybe I’m still to normal, but it just doesn’t make any sense.
    Well, what if the reason they want so much control and chaos (controlled chaos?) is to cover them while they escape with the loot?
    Kind of like the old “Die Hard” movies- no matter what it seems like is going on at first, it’s always about a heist.

    Could it all really be that simple?
    Or am I just way off my rocker?

    BTW, we ought to have more REAL discussions like this one.
    A big thanks to WRSA and all the other folk that participated.

  92. I didn’t know about this event, or I’d have tried to get in early. Here are some comments.
    Regarding flyers and such-like: the easiest way to make them is use current technology: Xerox, laser or inkjet printer. If those are unavailable, older methods such as mimeograph, hectograph, gelatin, etc. can be pressed into service. Printing presses are more complex, but if you have one, you’re well on your way to preparing all kinds of leaflets and flyers.
    Regarding organizing people, find an issue that serves as something to organize around. Locally, there’s a group forming around getting concealed carry permits. Once the group is organized around one issue, it’s possible to find other issues that can be used to expand the group. That’s my plan for the CCW group. Look for something that’s important locally and use it as the focal point for organizing.
    One of the things “they” will try to do is keep information about “acts of resistance” from spreading. If you don’t know what’s going on elsewhere, you will be caught by surprise. The Soviets used to suppress information about disasters, leading the Russian people to think that disasters didn’t happen. Recall the incident in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago, when a woman hid in a closet and shot an intruder when he opened the closet door (she shot him 5 times and he still walked out and drove away; so why do I need a large magazine?). It took 2 days before that incident reached the “front page” of AOL, and it never did show up in either of my local papers. Suppressing information like that is one way of keeping people from being aware of what’s going on. So we need means for getting the word out when things happen. Checkpoints, unusual military or police operations, etc. Communicating these things lets people know how close to the boiling point the situation is.

  93. Late to the party (aren’t we all?) but a few comments:
    1. Faith, family, church, prayer, bible, declaration, constitution, bill of rights. Make sure your foundation is in order.
    2. Beans, bullets, band-aids – keep on preppin’! Sake stock of where your are, your strengths and weaknesses.
    3. Raise a ruckus! Keep writing, calling, e-mailing – not just politicians, either. I’ve let everybody in NY know why I won’t do business with them anymore. If MN passes their ban, the same goes for sportsmans guide.
    4. Teach, recruit, edify. I had a co-worker who was excited about doubling his money on some guns/ammo. Told him there’d be no more if we didn’t tell congress to stop. Somehow the light clicked on and he actually got off his duff and called his senators and congressman.
    5. I got out of the city a decade ago, and after 4 years of considerable effort I’m comfortable with arms and ammo. Still have stuff to cache, repairs to make, things to build upon.

    Thanks to all for your input, much to consider here.

    Scott B.

  94. Time for what? time to tell their congresscritters what they think? time to wear a Gadsden T-shirt? or a ball cap? Or put a JPFO sticker on their vehicle? Every little bit helps; resistance is geometrically cumulative.

  95. Mr. Martino:

    Wanted to take a moment to tell you what a good resource your book is. Thank you. When is the expanded twenty volume set going to be issued?

  96. Pingback: WRSA State Of The Union Forum: Where We Are, How We Got Here, & Where We Are Going | Western Rifle Shooters Association | Fighting For Liberty

  97. Thanks, one and all for a most enlightening exchange.

  98. hey guys (generic) all your points are well taken but I think one needs to be highlighted. The fight for liberty is an epoch thing, not a 4 year thing or a 20 year thing. So while we are all thinking on the offensive, we must realize that we the people are a perishable item. The first goal is to live on. So we need to plot our way forward and survive over offensive operations, or defensive as the case may be. So as we plan to cause and effect things, we should more forcefully plan to fight our way out of things we didn’t start but must finish. Remember, there are three ways to win a fight. 1.- The most costly- head to head. 2. – the best way- have the insurrectionists in charge that we have now, forfeit the fight, and the more likely in between, fight, have the insurrectionists not be able to keep their head in the fight. This does a couple things, it forces them to light up all their criminal links, time and time again for us to recognize, identify, and deal with. The more we can get their head out of the fight… the more we can get their head out of the fight. This will allow us to take back the constitution, one item at a time. Run the OODA loop on them, do not let them run it on us. Also remember, there are only two ways to beat a loop. Deny the fight, which we can’t but which the insurrectionists are trying to force us to do weaselfuly (new word). Or alter the dimensions of the loop, which we can do easy. So do not only pay attention to the light, but also the dark, and pay closest attention to the shadows in between.

  99. I have been in such a bad mood this evening. I have not even got a chance to read the thread and comments yet. What set me off was some major hatred I was reading against our military (re Ron Paul/Chris Kyle tweet.). There are so many wolves among us as well as delusional, utopian fools. I look forward to reading what everyone has to say tomorrow.

  100. It really is ALWAYS about the money. Who arranged the circumstances to Loot our Treasury?

    Derivatives are a pseudo-contract. Neither party pays money, performs service, assigns property to fund the contract. Yet, like bonds which never were insured before the 90s; the clever fraudsters on Wall St saw the ability to defraud AIG, the worlds biggest special risk carrier as means of attaining funding. Had Paulson sought to mitigate the contrived emergency, a moratorium on derivative settlements could have been declared and contracts examined to determine which ones were valid; IE someone paid money commensurate with the risk that other party would not perform.

    Yet, derivatives were the neutron bomb of financial fraud instruments. The pigeon in this drop was our US Treasury, except ALL PARTIES to the confidence game KNEW the fix was in and it was All About Looting Trillions from Treasury and Enabling General Motors takeover and ousting Hank Greenberg from AIG where he had not been a derivative enthusiast.

    Who wound up with the assets of all the contrived failures of legendary brokerage houses like Merrill-Lynch which folded in a matter of hours and were essentially awarded to bitter competitors for no rational reason? Goldman-Sachs could just as easily been taken down except for their insider network that since 2010 appointments in Greece & Italy are proven to Run The World…

    How about that secret vote on x-mas eve 1913 that enacted The Federal Reserve Act? 3 senators meeting in the senate cloakroom, declaring a quorum and voting aye for the most financially damaging action in our history? Control over all our money given to men who pledged no assets to acquire the power and assuredness of fabulous wealth the empowerment would/could bring…

    The same crewe, almost like mardi-gras revelers, means to have their way with US and abscond cleanly with all the wealth. Probably they’re going to leave the pensions alone, because pigs always get slaughtered. Even the American People might just figure out what is up if they try to get the last nickel from our pockets.

    The real fight is in NOT Tearing Down America, rather organizing neighborhoods and precincts to all resort to Constitutional Means to protect The Nation during the chaos TPTB mean to foment, rather than going hot to revenge our outrage at being plundered. Our Constitution protects US All at local levels and there need be no battleground amongst US.

    The Nation has been BANKRUPTED and Driven To Ruin by those entrusted to serve the public in stewardship. Instead of Stewards of Fiduciary Responsibility our political and business/professional leaders have conducted their affairs as did the Cornish Scuttlers who lured merchant vessels to wreck on their rocky shoals and then pillaged ship and murdered survivors to claim “salvage rights” under Law Of The Sea…

    Our Federal Representatives and Senators have spent US into ruin and Enabled Looting on scale that will prohibit recovery or renewal.

    If we resort to armed conflict without presenting warrants for arrest of culpable parties to this ruin, we will effectively allow these persons, most anyway, to escape and make off with all they Looted and Robbed.

    We have our God-Given Rights.
    What we need to pursue and manifest is Recovery and Restoration of Our Nation and prosecution of those who committed Treason and breach of Fiduciary Duty implied and implicit to their Oath Of Office.

  101. Reading this after the fact. Obviously.

    It seems obvious to me there is going to be a ‘reset’ It’s going to be a violent blood reset.

    But we, liberty lovers, need a plan to fill the vacuum after the reset. Assuming we win.

    So who has the plan?

  102. .Wow.No time to read this all but here’s a suggestion I hope hasn’t been covered yet.
    You feel like you’re bring pushed and pushed (fair enough) but your only response seems to be “I’m going to draw a line and if he steps over that line then WHAM”.
    Bad strategy. You need to start pushing back and force the gestapo to reveal themselves in all their ugly glory.
    1. Deface ALL federal branding you can get your hands on. A simple red nazi swastika via spray paint gets the message across. This is (relatively) low risk, and being caught doing it dosen’t exactly carry the death penalty.
    2. Get your printer fired up and obtain some glossy stickyback print sheets. Whip up some “Militia Country” stickers of the appropriate size and alter your county signs to read “You are now entering -Militia country-” rather than “sticksville, Idaho” (for example). Better yet, use heavy duty glue and poster material like the stuff used for concert posters. It’s bloody hard to get off and the remaining residue makes a good base for the next poster. Access the site by ATVs if possible to avoid CCTV or witness accounts.
    For every patriot on the net there are probably ten out there who have little to no idea that they’re not alone. Change that perception and you’ll see a BIG difference in community attitudes.

    • For every patriot on the ‘net there are probably ten out there who have little to no idea that they’re not alone. Change that perception and you’ll see a BIG difference in community attitudes.

      Bingo.

      • CA, I agree. In fact there may be even more than ten. I have tried to reach out to a few people but fear seems to grip them, they lock up and when they finally come out of shock, they start running and dodging like I’m shooting at them. And my wife has monitored me and she says I am not coming on strong. This is a real problem.

        The few I have managed to stay in close to semi-close contact with, have their heads down and are one step away from digging hidden bunkers and disappearing. To say their paranoid is an understatement.

        Some how we have got to break through the paranoia and get Patriots to come out of the basement. I like Mr. Bracken’s idea about the ball cap and t-shirts. And I am moving in that direction now.

        I am also seriously considering getting a booth at the next gun show and passing flyers, leaflets, pamphlets, anything I can get with the message on it. Which leads to my question: Do any of you guys have any of these available that I could print out at my own expense? Would any of you all have a problem with me printing out post you have done on your websites and handing them out? I will give full credit to the authors.

        Also is there a place where I could buy their books in bulk, at my expense and sell them? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

        CA, like the video you put up yesterday, I am a follower trying to stir other followers to come out and stand. It goes back to something my Grandpa and Dad used to tell us boys all the time. “We are not great men, we are common men. But when you find a great man, make sure you are found standing next to him.” In the past year and half I have found a lot of great men and women in the Patriot/Liberty movements.

        Isolation is death, no man can stand alone for very long.

        When men and women find out they are not alone, I believe they will step out on to the Green.

        • I see the genesis of a powerful idea here: A one-stop resource center where people could download pamphlets, flyers, posters, etc. to print out and make copies of. There are a host of such docs already out there, but not consolidated in one place, plus it lends itself to new ideas being produced. I’m thinking a Scribd account could be used to host the docs. Is anyone aware if such an online resource already exists so we wouldn’t have to reinvent the wheel?

          • Great synthesis, David.

            Crude but workable suggestion: I put up a post called “Propaganda Resources”, everybody sends links for that post to the wrsa@hushmail.com box, and I add them to the post. The post then will reside in the left margin of WRSA.

            There are a dozen better plans, I am sure, but this one can start today.

            Improvements?

  103. I thought I’d add in a couple of thoughts this morning.

    1) We (the folks at my site) track things through open source news and information services. We are seeing a drastic increase in “flash mobs”, small riots which aren’t making the new cycle. We THINK (not sure) but these are organized by someone (OWS maybe?) to keep folks off guard.

    2) North Korea, Iran… two serious problems are looming and we as a country as essentially IGNORING this – to what end? I don’t know but I suspect that somehow this administration is complicit in reducing our military and nuclear arsenal, de-funding important important programs (Naval power, Missile Defense, etc), all the while Russia and China are working diligently on their military strength. (Build ups there are noticeable)

    3) Our government is spending more money than they take in, and they KNOW it. They KNOW this will crash us. Why in the world would our own government do this? It only makes sense if you happen to have a “Progressive” mindset I guess. Apparently the current occupant of the Oval Office sees “Progress” as reversing anything we’ve come to believe in as America. He see “Amerika” when he is finished. When he says, “Fundamental change in America” he MEANS “fundamental change in AMERICANS”. All of us, a new 1984ish, Groupthink, Big-Brother-is-Watching-You mind set. This is what they want for the USA. Not freedoms.

    4) The attacks on guns, the Second Amendment have been carefully thought out (Obviously if DiFi had been “working for a year” on that bill before Sandy Hook they have a belief of change they can make given the correct impetus, in this case, the murders of little children). As so many here have said before, I’ll say it again, do NOT give up your guns. No matter what, RESIST. Even if you hide them, bury them, move them, or have to use them. Once they disarm us, it’s a short step to incarceration and extermination for those that won’t go to “Re-Education Camp”.

    5) To those who somehow believe that the “Jews” and “Banks” are “at fault”… I’m sorry, but seriously, just go back to playing your video games. If anything those “theories” are put out there to make you SOUND like lunatics and keep everyone on every side laughing about it (and you). Our greatest issue isn’t the DPRK, Jews, Banks, or any other conspiracy theory you can imagine. It’s the current Administration trying to ban guns, or force registration on us. ONCE we LOSE the ability to defend ourselves, we are lost as a people and a nation. The day they start gun confiscation, the United States will no longer exist and the Constitution will be null and void – and THAT is their MAIN GOAL. It’s the goal we must stop.

    6) I personally don’t see an immediate-in-our-future “battle” or “shooting war”. Oh, it’s coming, but not in the next few months. The psychology of Americans today precludes MOST of us from standing up and fighting back. Most turn tail and run. (Some of us won’t, some have seen death and/or destruction up close and personal and most military people over the age of 35 or so actually believe in that oath they took. I have a few decades on that group – I took that oath at least six times and it has never expired. It won’t expire. I’ll expire before I ignore that oath). But Americans in general are inculcated into a “safety” mindset. They can call 911. They can run. They can hide. They don’t have to carry a gun, shoot anyone, and they don’t think anyone else should protect themselves either. This attitude permeates society and even some in the military themselves believe it and think civilians should be disarmed. (I know, I work on an installation and speak with military personnel every day). Make no mistake, something will pull that one twig out of the log jam soon and we will have a flood coming down the river. It’s coming, just not in the next few weeks.

    7) Folks here have said “Train”. Yes. Exercise, lose a few extra pounds, get in shape, learn to walk fast, learn to carry some equipment (get a backpack and hike through a park for a few miles, start slowly). Carry a walking stick (since most can’t carry a battle rifle, use the stick to make sure you’re used to carrying a weapon, even get a sling on it and carry it that way sometimes… seriously). Learn some “night moves”. Learn hand signals. READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON. Find a ham radio operator in your area and “get your ham license”. They will teach you things about radios. Know about your cell phone and Opsec, Comsec, and how to make sure that phone isn’t turned on when you don’t want to be overheard….Learn about “dead drops” and even “One time Pads”. I won’t elaborate on any of that, you take the time to look it up. Do your “preps”. Food, water, shelter. Know how to obtain each in your area, and lay in a store. Be prepared to bug in, and be prepared to bug out. And watch, listen and pass on what you know to others.

    We’re in for tough times. We will make it though… Remember what Franklin said, “We must hang together, or surely we will hang separately.”

  104. Great discussion, Inspiring, humbling, and educational. Thanks to the Panel especially. To all the rest, if you take nothing else away for this meeting of the minds, take and keep this: “YOU ARE NOT ALONE!”

    Montani Semper Liberi.

  105. Really, that was the purpose? I thought it was an attempt to show him as a bozo who’d never shouldered a shotgun before. My guess is that the Secret Service was standing off-camera laughing up their shirt sleeves.

  106. Reblogged this on Reality Check and commented:
    Western Rifle Shooter’s Association panel from Tuesday morning/afternoon. David Codrea, Mike Garand, Jack Lawson, T.L. Davis, Claire Wolfe, Matt Bracken were panel participants. Recommended read

  107. Hey guys, here’s an opportunity for us. 10 million gun owner march in DC on 05/25/2013. Check it out. Sounds like a crazy good opportunity to link up and make a statement to the powers that be. http://ivymikecafe.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/10-million-gun-owner-march-05252013-in-dc/

  108. Ted Lindblad III

    I too appreciate all which is being said here and the provided format. Allow me to PLEASE strongly encourage each and every one of you to invest the 3 hours (make the time) it will take to watch these two videos, on:

    God, Guns and Liberty, by Mike Hoggard

    Part 1: http://www.watchmanvideobroadcast.com/video/wvb121223_god-guns-liberty-01.html

    Part 2: http://www.watchmanvideobroadcast.com/video/wvb121230_god-guns-liberty-02.html

    This is some of the finest teaching I have found on the interwebs. The knowledge presented within used to be common knowledge. The Bible (the Word of God) used to be common knowledge. The single most imperative issue facing the Liberty Movement exists in asking ourselves (each one to him/her self) who’s side are we truly on, God or satan’s? This is a question so fundamental to what we all see happening around us, to ignore it is to miss ALL else (no matter how close to correct individual “facts of reality” may be) and ultimately to lose all we ever were or could be, because we are missing the “why” of things which be. We are HERE because Amerika no longer understands or regards the Bible as the ultimate Truth which it is. We believe “science” and “scientists” (who MUST know better that we (they have degrees from universities after all) could they too be TPTB?) which has produced the most elaborate hoax in the history of mankind… evolution. Creation sans Creator. Reality sans accountability. Yes, it all starts here. It is how the progressives have progressed and are progressing at ever faster rates. We have been duped on an existential level. Don’t be! 2 Peter 3: start to finish (KJV).

    I beg believers and non-believers alike to watch and begin to understand this battle at its most basic level. See you on the literal battlefield of Good versus evil, and (I pray) on the Other Side. Know for sure which side you are on… 1 John 5:13 (KJV). God our Creator put a stop to His creation once before with water. The fossil record (in reality) bears witness to this absolute fact. He will do it again this time with fire, in His time, which seems to grow late to this believer.

    Peace and Blessings
    and as CA says;
    Stand and RESIST (evil)
    be kind, but harden your hearts (with Truth)
    T3

    • Interesting. I liked the first video, and started the second. About 10 minutes in it just stopped, and now the page will load but not the video.

      I also had trouble linking to two pages from my USA Carry newsletter today. One of them was about Obama’s lawyers admitting the Hawaii birth certificate was a fake. The other was about some Bruce Willis quote. Never did get either of them, and the search function for that site wasn’t working either.

      My theory is DDOS attacks on pro-gun websites, since it appears the gun control agenda is losing steam really quickly in the face of concerted pro-gun opposition. They’re losing ground so quickly that the CT legislature is considering trying to jam through about 50 various anti-gun proposals on an ‘emergency’ basis. And these videos do a good job of justifying self-defense and weapons with Scripture, so this site would be a priority to hit for DDOS hacking.

  109. Outstanding contributions from all panelists and participants! My heartfelt thanks to all, and especially to CA and WRSA for the venue. We know the enemy has his plans. Time is short. Our job is to resist and to counter by all means available. If you haven’t started yet, now is the time. Take some ideas from this exchange and implement them in your local community. Network with others locally, regionally and beyond. Show the leviathan that we intend to win! Yesterday is the past (history): May we learn from it. Today is the present – the first day of the rest of our lives: May we embrace it. Tomorrow is the future: May we make it ours and our children’s in liberty.

  110. Our overall problem is we are attempting to do no less than rebuild our civilization in enemy territory, complete with an obstensively enemy population that has no concept of Freedom beyond it being a slogan. Certainly, we are subject to an enemy government that has an obstensive following with the aforementioned portion of the American people.

    It’s why I advocated for years we needed a demonstration town won via recall election using the examples of the GIs of Athens TN of 1946 and with our principles instituted, then used as an example. Also, we would have actual territory. That advocacy has been systematically stymied and blocked by the ignorant and gov operatives.

    There will NOT be a peaceful resolution to this, the enemy will choke off any such efforts or use ringers in the movement to derail them.

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  113. I got in here at the last minute this evening, and couldn’t leave until I read everyone’s posts…. outstanding!

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