Billy Beck: Speaking Of Memorials…

From Billy Beck:

If you can watch this video without profound mortification, mounting to righteous outrage, then you don’t understand what’s going on or there is something else wrong with you.

Paging Mr. Greenwood….Mr. Greenwood, please report to the main podium.

45 responses to “Billy Beck: Speaking Of Memorials…

  1. Yeah, I saw this earlier this morning.
    It all comes down to disobedience to the “authority” of state actors. How the initial ruling could have even been considered and meted out is an outrage and it only leads to more outrageous behavior from the thugs with badges.

    Further evidence of the endarkenment that Beck speaks of.

    Keep pushing so that they continue to do this type of ridiculous reaction to our assertions of freedom. The more we push the more ridiculous they look. Eventually it should enrage enough people to cause a real outcry….then again, American Idol and DWTS may be more important.

    KPN3%

  2. The “man on the street” is probably somewhat familiar with the 2nd amendment and some of the ongoing battles regarding it. Not many people seem to be as exorcised about the first, at least beyond speech – freedom of assembly, here? If that couple dancing is not peaceable assembly, I’m not sure what is. Understandable that the congressthugs want to keep DC a gun-free zone; the costumed gang clearly had no fear of their nominal employers.

  3. JM JOHNSON

    Well, there you have it. Irony of ironies, it’s the day before Memorial Day as I write this. Men and women have paid the ultimate price to protect our God-given liberties. I was at church this morning with a bunch of clueless Lutherans and a clueless Lutheran pastor who have no idea that this kind of Fascistic, repressive, unconstitutional behavior is taking place all over Amerika. We sang the National Anthem, My Country ‘Tis of Thee, and The Battle Hymn of the Republic(the bile rose in my throat over this one). What I am saying is that my little podunk, blue-collar backwater is oblivious to the police-state encroachments that take place on a daily basis. How can any group of knowledgable, willing patriots hope to turn things around? I guarantee you, if some real patriot metes our some real justice for the police execution of Jose Guarena, they’ll be on the next episode of America’s Most Wanted or COPS, and the lapdog media will crucify him or her. I’m sorry. I have no more answers. And, I’m too damn old and disabled to do much of anything other than rant.

  4. Hollywood

    Got to say it, I’m mortified. The behavior of the dancers is so bad and so lacking in respect at the monument, of the others who are there. I agree with the poster who said the place “deserves a modicum of respect”. There freedom to be disruptive, does not trump my right not to be disrupted, visiting a national site like this. People used to be way more classy that this, seemingly from the youtube comments I’m not alone in this thought process.
    If this is the police brutality & outrage you have, you ain’t looking hard enough. I’m thinking more like Jose Guerena, shot on a stupid pointless drug (pot) raid.

    –hollywood

  5. That’s it. The last straw.

    Now it’s on you paper handing sons of bitches.

  6. Hey Hollywood-

    Getting body slammed for dancing? Arrested for KISSING? Give me a fucking break. It’s this kind of shit and people like you that put up with it, that lead to events like the execution of Guerena. I hope to God that they don’t come for you when you’re cutting your grass too early for someone’s taste and are “disturbing the peace”.

  7. ‘Hollywood’ is the kind of apathy that has brought this down on the USA, making more excuses for the ‘good guys in blue’ while anyone else is branded a nutcase or agitator. ‘Hollywood’ wouldn’t dare ever step out of line or do anything to draw attention, for fear of being labeled outside the mainstream of normal.
    The one good thing is that when the shit goes down, ‘Hollywood’ is too scared and dumb to react, therefore becoming an instant casualty. Keeps ’em out of the way of those that have work to do!

  8. Hollywood

    0321, you can disagree with me, but name calling is a little immature don’t you think. Also, don’t presume to know anything about me. I suspect he got “body slammed” as you say for resisting arrest, since I have no reason not to believe the video was edited, and the agitator is no worse for wear, I suspect it’s not quite what it was made out to be,

    Crustyrusty, as for mowing the grass, I suspect if I was so rude as to mow the grass in the middle of the night, and the police asked me to stop, I probably would. Again my freedom ends at your nose, or ears as the case may be.

    The are plenty of reasons to be outraged by bad cop behavior, I just don’t think this is it.

  9. FWIW, I’d walk in front of HW as he fired live ammo.

    And I’d be real happy to have him at my back.

    We disagree sometimes, too.

    Doesn’t change a single word above.

  10. Harry Steele

    According to “Hollywood” here, it is A-OKAY for the thugs with badges to UNLAWFULLY harass and arrest anyone for practicing their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS……. Enjoy those chains Hollywood…. may they rest lightly… The rest of us REAL AMERICANS have more important things to do than to come rescue the likes of you when the Jack-Booted thugs decide that YOU did something “Unlawful” even when that “law” is blatantly UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

  11. Adam Kokesh is a provocateur. This was all done to create a propaganda piece for Russia TV. He belongs to an organization called Ira

  12. Adam Kokesh is a provocateur. I’m all for standing up for our rights but this was all done to create a propaganda piece for Russia TV. He belongs to an organization called Iraq Vets Against the War. More info about this event can be found at http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2011/05/29/us-leftist-russia-tv-show-throws-protestpublicity-stunt-shut-down-jeffer

  13. Hollywood,
    my apologies for getting rude.
    At what point do you think someone deserves to be body slammed and it’s not OK? What if he’d gotten his skull cracked on that nice soft deck, do you think they would have cared? They COULD have herded the dancers out of there in a bit more orderly manner, but then again, maybe they just had no plans to be nice. Notice the attitude from the real young cop at the beginning, he’s all pumped up for some head banging, isn’t he?
    I see things like this just as I see rape, there is no such thing as only getting raped ‘a little”. No harm done there, it was just a little, ha ha!
    But the biggest issue at stake here, there was not one single law broken to justify what happened. The cops just decided to make up some law or ordinance that prohibited whatever they didn’t like. Is that the Amerikan way now? Sure looks like it. So if you wish to defend this kind of behavior from police, fine, but one day you may end up on the wrong side of the fence. Seen the video of the soccer game cops getting beat up, boy, I’ll bet they wished they’d been a little nicer too.

  14. tired dog

    Yep, there was the requisite shout of ‘stop resisting’ to justify a ‘resisting arrest’ felony…

  15. Hollywood

    0321, I try not to defend the indefensible. I’m just saying this is not the incident that would be my focus of my police brutality rage. Did the cops behave correctly, no, but I think the dancers came to agitate, and they got what they asked for, the police stooped to their level. The fact is the cops knew it was illegal to do (they could not or would not at that moment site chapter and verse), and gave them ample chance to stop the behavior. I totally agree there are plenty of example if police brutality.

    Not only is there a prohibition on ” demonstrations at the monument” (which with those t-shirts obviously was), but there was also case law, “http://dcist.com/2010/01/judge_rules_against_jefferson_memor.php”.

    So I guess, I ask myself why did all the RTC rallies work with local LEO. Really we could have just showed up with rifle and would have been within our right.

    @Harry I guess I have a little more reverence about this monument than “Real Americans”, and if you want to get upset, why not about something important like the lack of CCW at places like this.

  16. Harry Steele

    Reverence my ass, stop standing up ONLY for those who exercise THEIR RIGHTS in the way you approve of and throwing all others under the bus….

  17. Harry:

    Down a notch or two, would you?

    There’s been enough fratricide already.

    I promise we can all try to kill each other once we have killed everyone who is now trying to kill us all.

    But not until then.

    Deal?

  18. So, does anyone have that Al Bundy looking MFr’s address? I’d like to go and “arrest” him for dancing with his wife.

  19. TreeOfLiberty

    Perhaps, for the next round, the dancers will bring their own band, ready to punch up the rhythm to a new level.

  20. Harry Steele

    But I dont want to “kill” him…. just break his legs or sumfin……. I’ll leave his trigger finger alone so he can still take out the tyrants and such, promise…..

  21. I’m with Hollywood on this one.
    Personally, I’d body slam code pinkers just on principle. That principle being an affinity for not being played the fool.

    Anyway, regardless of how you may feel about my personal prejudice…Ask yourself; what if the smirking code pinkers were actually feeling each other up or fucking in the monument dedicated to the man who so brilliantly represented our ideals? It would certainly fit their mo. They are well known for manipulating video and narrative beyond the point of propaganda and their aims don’t comport in any way with the aims of Liberty…Neither do Russia Today’s for that matter.

    “There is no Pravda in Izvestia”. Truth leavened with useful lies is the oldest collectivist trick in the book and I’m surprised that so many Freefor are apparently falling for it even as Jose Guerena’s family daubs their tears. Obviously the real fascist vanguard is more adept at this game than many good honest folk here. We need to step up our ground game and see them for what they are and not what the collective they want us to think they are.

    Fire away brothers and sisters.
    It’s what their aims are after all.

  22. Ladies & Gentlemen: let me only point out that freedom doesn’t mean that everybody has to like anyone.

  23. Alan W. Mullenax

    Hmm. A conundrum.

    Do I, or do I not, support Leftists staging a disrespectful, albeit peaceful, demonstration in the Jefferson Monument?

    I know in my heart that that type of demonstration in the Jefferson Monument is disrespectful. It goes against everything I have been taught.

    Jefferson is without a doubt one of my most admired individuals in history.

    To be honest, my first impulse had I been there would have been to grab them by there collectivist necks and throw them from the place much like Jesus did the moneychangers in the temple.

    But there’s this little voice inside my head that tells me had Jefferson been there, he would just have smiled.

  24. You’re a better man than me Mr. Mullenax.

  25. Alan W.Mullenax

    Robert, I am not better than you or anybody else. I am however just as confused, fearful, and angry as you and everybody else.

  26. Jim Bravo

    I think what is to be noticed here is how we have fully transformed. At one time the law was based on reason, and enforced with reason, but failing that, then force. Officer friendly would chat with you and explain things, give you a warning.

    Now it is just force, pure unmasked force. No reason to be found. The cops can’t explain why you are in violation of some non-sense law. They can’t explain why it is a law. They don’t care, listen or be arrested!

    There probably are exceptions, but that is where we are moving. And make no mistake, it is the hallmark of a police state.

  27. If the State wasn’t so inclined to do what it does this demonstration would never have happened. Beck is right, how you choose to exercise your liberty is not dependent on what I think of it.

  28. Semper Fi,0321

    What’s a code pinker? More redneck slang for a communist hippie? Time to wake up, you’re pointing the finger at the wrong people there.
    Yes, they did this to draw attention to themselves. Yes, it may be inappropriate. But what about the laws passed by the judge that started all this. What’s worse, dancing? or pissing on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?
    Maybe body slamming code pinkers is the right way to express personal freedom in this country!

  29. Jimmy the Saint

    Stupid mundane, not recognizing the authori-tay.
    *shakes head*

  30. Eh, I read on Bing that Adam Kokesh is in the pay of the Russian Govt. to produce propoganda to make America look bad. Anybody know more about this, or if it is true? And what is the Israeli connection? Some commentors on youtube say this, but don’t elaborate.

  31. This illustrates the major problem with the idea of completely free speech, enforced at a national level, in a nation with the size and diversity of the USA: Speech reveals the nature of a person, and people with opposing natures do not live well together. Still, you can’t have a national government the size of ours preferring one type of person over another.

    I think, however, that there’s an issue of community freedom here as well – an individual may have the right to behave in an offensive manner, but a community should also have the right and power to say to the offending individual, “we don’t like that and you’re not going to do/say it in our town square. Go find a community of people you can find common ground with and quit provoking us” – backed up, if necessary, with an escort to the county line and a kick in the pants across it. Freedom of speech shouldn’t insulate assholes from the social consequences of being an asshole.

    Seems like there are enough examples of innocent people being killed and non-provocative citizens being hassled that we shouldn’t need to frame our discussions around an “Adam vs. The Man.”

  32. Who *owns* that memorial, Josh?

  33. Grenadier1

    I dont give a rats ass about these tree hugging pacifist douche nozzels. I just find it terribly ironic that people are arrested for dancing at JEFFERSONS memorial! Had the man been there he would have stood with the dancers and put the Crowns Hessians in their place.
    Blood of patriots and tyrants and all that good stuff.

  34. hollywood

    @Billy
    So the issue is, who owns the memorial. The question I assume leads to; if these dancers showed up at a private church and disturbed the service, they could be kicked out.

    But, if done on public land their rights are limitless, they could scream curses, piss on the statue and carry pornographic posters if they wished, because the agitators have limitless rights, but others there, there for the sites intended purpose have no rights. My children must be subjected to the whim of the few, because there can be no enforced community standard.

    I guess in the libertarian utopia there is no public lands, and this case would never be an issue, but we don’t live in that utopia. So it seems to me that the rules enforced about it’s “solemn atmosphere” seem to track with what the majority want. I just don’t know of any other reasonably fair way to make rules about public places.

    I’m assuming that you think there should be some rules for public places? I would love to hear that a reasonable rules is?

    Please don’t take this as a defense of “how” the police enforced the rules, but I also don’t rule out selective editing of the video either.

  35. “But, if done on public land their rights are limitless, they could scream curses, piss on the statue and carry pornographic posters if they wished, because the agitators have limitless rights…”

    Well, they weren’t doing that, so I’d like to know the principle on which they were physically attacked.

    Grenadier: good for you, sir. Principles are most valuable precisely when they’re hard.

  36. hollywood

    The principle is the “rule of law”. There is a law in place, to keep disruptive behavior out of the monument, it seems to be reasonable (via the youtube comments at least some of us think it is reasonable, much more reasonable then the law preventing CCW at the same place).
    “Physically Attacked” is your view of what occurred, since no injuries were sustained, I suggest that the Law Enforcement (yes that is what they are) showed constraint.

    We can be bullied by Government, no doubt about it, but we can also be bullied my those who have no sense of common decency and respect for those around them, which is where I put the “dancers”. A little like people who talk in the theater , but in a privately owned movie theater, it’s easy to have the management address the issue. Here the Gov. is the management.
    Again, I’m not saying the police addressed is perfectly, I’m just saying that they had to address it, they had to preserver the rights of those who where there for the sites intended purpose and not let the disruptive element spoil it for the majority.

    I would ask again, are rights limitless in these public spaces, would you forceable remove them for screaming obscenities?

  37. Because I don’t *own* it, I have no authority to do that.

    And neither do you or anyone else.

    Your dismissal of offense on grounds that no injuries were sustained is patently absurd in face of the evidence, and causes serious reflection on your judgment. If you can’t see that, then it is only common sense to wonder what you can see.

    “…they had to preserver the rights of those who where there for the sites intended purpose…”

    That’s nonsense: they closed the place down.

  38. hollywood

    So…..
    Since it’s a public space, no one has the authority to stop anyone from doing anything? Ya, I honestly don’t understand.

    Since, I don’t really take the “possibly” altered video as the only evidence, I do know that if they stopped when asked, this would not have escalated to this point. If they had not resisted, it would not have gone down like this.

    Closed for a short time, while they removed the offenders? How long 5 minutes, better that then let it go on for hours and no one being able to be at the monument without these shenanigans.

    I’m afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I’ll give you the last word.

  39. Who *owns* that memorial, Josh?

    Billy: I honestly don’t know. I’d guess that it’s public land, so the right answer is probably “all 300+ million of us.”

    Which is the problem. It’s impossible to get consensus from that many people on how a commonly owned thing should be used, or protected, or hell, whether it should even be owned or used at all. Whenever commons have to be regulated by majority rather than consensus, somebody is being robbed.

    There’s definitely an inappropriate-force issue in the video, assuming the video is an accurate representation of what happened, but this isn’t a clear-cut case of infringing on basic rights of speech and assembly. It doesn’t piss me off nearly as much as innocent people being shot to bits by thugs and incompetents who are never called to account.

  40. GlockGirl

    Medea Benjamin with her Marxist cronies playing the media for fools again. Sorry Billy, but you fell for their provocation.

    Did you not hear the Park Police ask if they had a permit? That was the key. With a permit they can stage any kind of protest, burn flags, carry their communist signs around, shout obscenities, and vocalize their contempt for this country. And the Park Police will protect their right to do so. With a permit. This Marxist cluster have desecrated our memorials with graffiti and trash everytime they have gathered to protest. It’s why the Vietnam Memorial Wall was protected by tens of thousands of patriots during a counter rally against these commies who had intended to start their protest at the Wall. I was there. I saw first hand the professionalism of the Park Police. And the Park Police are very familiar with these agitators as well.

    Here’s a thought. The Park Police are Americans. Can you understand how hard it would be to protect these creatans time after time, and then to see the park you are trying to protect get trashed and disrespected? I can. But now these little commie pucks are back, but they have no permit to excuse their behavior. Now they’re just a pack of hoodlums disturbing the peace. Having been to a few rallies where Medea has been present, I can assure you, their behavior was more than dancing. They were assuredly ruining the experience for every tourist there with calculated glee. I am sure the Park Police received many complaints from the tourists, and thus the question, “Do you have a permit?” and then the follow through with asking that their behavior stop and the subsequent police action.

    There are many cases of police brutality to make the case of abuse of power, but this ain’t one of ’em.

  41. “Did you not hear the Park Police ask if they had a permit?”

    {spit}

  42. Glockgirl,
    so as long as you beg of your masters for a permit, all is well?
    Screw you and your communist rant! I’ll side with the evil delinquents myself, they understand freedom better than you do. Semper Fidelis!

  43. ‘But there’s this little voice inside my head that tells me had Jefferson been there, he would just have smiled.”

    A reading of the history of Jefferson would indicate very little tolerance for such provocation.
    The libertarian rewrite of Jefferson combined with the deliberate misinterpretation of the Constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment by Progressive/leftists has degraded truth more than all the propaganda lies of the big left movements combined.
    Deliberate disturbance of the peace was punished far more brutally than the methods the police used to control these spoiled children to place them under arrest.
    Would it arguably been better if the citizens at the site punished these spoiled children? The modern Robert Peelian concept of the Police was created in part to lessen the brutality. Look up Peelian Principles of policing the 6th principle applies here. The police tried reason the spoiled children choose confrontation and conflict.
    They would have been served better has they gone limp when arrested. But they needed to make a propaganda video.

    The Communist/Socialist/Fascist calls the police an instrument of state oppression right up until it installs much worse than what it claimed to oppose.

    Was it Benjamin Franklin who said “Freedom is the right to make choices Liberty is the result of right choices.”?
    Billy, 0321 do you understand the difference?
    Can you apply it to this mess?
    What about the rights of others just to go to the memorial unmolested?
    Or are the rights of 0321 and his “evil delinquent” only ones more equal than the rest of ours?

  44. Anonymous

    Hollywood writes:

    The principle is the “rule of law”. […]

    John Hasnas has explained that the Rule of Law doesn’t exist. Any opinion you have on how this memorial should be managed is purely a political position, enforced at gunpoint on people who disagree with it.

    The memorial is a commons, and commons don’t work when owned by groups other than a family. Give this property back to the taxpayers by lottery, with individual chances proportional to last year’s tax payments.