The Bad Times

Velociman discusses one of the many taboo fronts in the polygonal battlespace.

Have you thought through things at least as far as he has?

Even if his 10-15 year timeframe is skewed badly….

41 responses to “The Bad Times

  1. Ginunngagap

    Good thoughts, as far as they go. He did not consider the changing demographics in all this equation. It will not be our children that want to put us in the peat bog, because we didn’t have any children. It will be the children of the mestizos, and the Somalis, and the !Kung tribesmen, and the wonderful Hmong, who will look at the astronomically high taxes they have to pay to support these old gringos. At some point in the not too distant future, this wonderful tapestry of diversity will simply vote us to death.

    But hey, if you spend your whole life volunteering at your local Unitarian church, maybe the tribesmen will see how wonderfully compassionate you were, and they’ll spare you. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

  2. Yeah, thought it through a long time ago and wrote about it more than a year ago:

  3. LOL, I’ve got a suggestion for you about this topic that will pay you two dividends people.
    Get yourself to an Appleseed event: Learn to shoot and hear the history of the Dangerous Old Men. Ask any red hat instructor about it.

  4. Class warfare talk. We are all humans created in the image and likeness of God. That is more than enough to unite every human being. The problem is, people need to see that they are, in fact, made in the image and likeness of God. That goal is not accomplished by joking about “Soylent green.” We’re like people starving to death in a lifeboat, and some are starting to halfway “joke” about killing and eating the others. It’s very poor judgment at best, and socially devastating at worst.

    “There are cultures which manifest a unique veneration and great love for the elderly: far from being outcasts from the family or merely tolerated as a useless burden, they continue to be present and to take an active and responsible part in family life, though having to respect the autonomy of the new family; above all they carry out the important mission of being a witness to the past and a source of wisdom for the young and for the future.” -John Paul II, in “Familiaris Consortio.”

    • I seem to recall times in the Bible when God was angry at the generations who lost their way and then someone had to set things right. Usually started with the rending of garments and ended with a lot of violence. Then it was wash (in the blood), rinse (in the water), and repeat (because people forgot again).

      I do agree with you on that whole likeness of God and positive possibilities thing. However, that does require a singular focus on what God wants.

      “God, are we there yet?”

      “Well, my child, there’s another crossroad ahead. Which way would you like to go?”

      “I want to go…”

      (Yeah, already starting off with a wrong answer.)

      “…I mean…God, where do You think we should go?”

      (Glimmer of hope). Maybe things will be different this time.

      • That’s true. Rending garments, (sometimes chopping up corpses and sending the bits to other villages) is usually how it started. The thing is, the violent reactions were usually precipitated by sudden outrages.

        It was the gradual tyrannies that took God’s intervention to undo. Like the unusual “campaign” promise made by the newly-minted King Rehoboam: “My father laid on you a heavy yoke; I will make it even heavier. My father scourged you with whips; I will scourge you with scorpions.”

        God intervened when Rehoboam was about to lay the smackdown on Israel with two of Israel’s own tribes, telling them to take the Tienanmen tank route. Non-compliance: “This is what the LORD says: Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, every one of you, for this is my doing.’” That’s the kind of deep-rooted stuff that can’t be won with violence. Only by non-compliance. And God’s intervention.

    • “We are all humans created in the image and likeness of God. That is more than enough to unite every human being.”

      That’s the sort of nonsense that created this situation in the first place. Didn’t
      Einstein say something about that sort of thinking?

      That we are all human beings – that similarity is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT. It is the differences that divide us that matter right now, and those most certainly exist, and can not be hand-waved out of existence.

      • Rollory, I don’t know what the scientist said about religion. I do know that he would invite guests into his house to tell him about the Catholic idea of the real presence in the Eucharist. He was intrigued by the philosophical concept of a substance without accidents.

        The differences that divide us do not justify surrendering that which makes us the same: our human nature. That which orients our actions according to one standard. If there is no one moral standard according to which all men should live? Well, then there is no moral standard at all, and everyone can do what he wants, morally speaking. In such a world, everything would derive its “justice” (in such a world, “justice” goes in quotation marks) merely by which individual clump of matter can physically overpower any other clump of matter. “Meaning” also has no place in such a world.

      • As to what kind of thinking got us to this place in the first place? I’m going to go with “The idea that some men have the right to initiate aggression against other individuals.” Pretty well encompasses it, I think.

      • We are all humans created in the image and likeness of God. That is more than enough to unite every human being.

        When a horde of black children is jeering, joking, and taking pictures and video as they stomp you to death, then tell me of our “common humanity.” Or tell it to your god.

        I’m going to go with “The idea that some men have the right to initiate aggression against other individuals.” Pretty well encompasses it, I think.

        Ah, of course. More watery libertarian horseshit. How could it be otherwise?


    Brass: You are morally correct. But, keep in mind that GenX, GenY, etc. are now products of an amoral, Godless American public education system that has no use for cultural and historical norms and precedents you have described. Sure, there may be small communities of American ethnics and the devoutly religious who will shelter their elderly. In my little county here in the southwest corner of the Peoples Democratic Socialist Republic of Oregon, the average age is 61. We outnumber these young hyenas. Life is indeed a vale of tears.

    • JM, oh, I have no illusions about the nature of the majority of Gen X and Y. Or the people who left them to be raised by wolves. I don’t doubt what will happen. I’m warning people against participating, thinking that somehow, slaughtering the elderly will repair the torn social fabric. Physical violence is acceptable to stop actual and direct physical violations of your rights. Snuffing recipients of Socialist Security is not an example of moral physical violence to stop a direct physical violation of your rights.

      We did not come to this place by means of overt physical violence on the part of our oppressors, and we will not regain our freedom by mean of overt physical violence. If there are enough people to restore freedom by violence, it isn’t necessary to use violence. If there aren’t enough people to restore freedom by violence, they will be crushed.

      The man who simply stood in front of that tank in Tienanmen Square accomplished more than ten thousand furious, armed Chinese students could have ever accomplished.

    • watch what you say about gen X mister. It might just be me that drags your wrinkly ass out of the wringer some day soon. Or it might be my 4 daughters, because that’s how I (and their grandfather) have taught them. There are plenty of us Gen X that “dig it”, to quote your hipster, beatnik generation members that helped lead us into this fine mess.
      Our enemy are the progressives, the sellout and those that think they are our betters without merit.

  6. Brass and Johnson are correct and hence LF mayors point should be well taken…..REALLY!

  7. Alan W. Mullenax

    Make no mistake. I want my money back. My money. My money only.

    Anybody who wants to lump me in with people who think they’re entitled to other people’s money, good luck with that.

    I run faster, shoot better, and am generally smarter than they are.

    come on sonny. can’t wait.

  8. Alan,

    This is the deal: your money is gone. It’s been poured into the trough and eaten already. The money you paid in? “Your money,” as you call it? It was already paid out years and years ago. You can’t steal from innocent people to make up for what has been stolen from you. It’s not just.

    • The Bernank can print all the “money” you demand. The value/buying power of the currency is gone; and worse, more borrowed based on the future value of the payments of the scheme. This is Sovereign Debt supported by SSI payroll deductions. Ponzi banking/gov’t benefits is a crime that falls hardest on those who can’t invest elsewhere because their surpluses were grabbed by decree over their working lives. It would be more effective to spend the future time you have making things/situations of value rather than demanding a refund of assets that don’t exist or are secured in far-away lands by evil banksters.

      I’m a Gen X 1968 baby. My mom told me about people glaring at her in 1969 and whispering about how too many babies will wreck the world (ZPG). “Psst, don’t you know about The Pill?” Those were the 1946 Boomers who were handed the world and told that they deserve it and more, with no effort. It didn’t exactly turn out that way, and many learned some odd lessons in a far-away Indo-China place with French pastry, but LOTS of them back home learned in liberal arts college to coast down the easy slope and vote themselves sweets and treats.

      From the time I got my first paycheck, I understood what all those deductions were: Taxes. Money never ever to be seen again. It’s nice that my born in 1911 and 1917 Grandparents got a bunch of SSI money for over 27 years and got big COLA’s through the 1970’s and 1980’s. They got HUNDREDS of times what they paid in in “dollars” and probably dozens of times in value. Mr. Roosevelt was advised that working men died, on average, a few years before they would collect anything, and that their widows would last a couple years after that. Widows of men worked to death ought not to starve, right? With 40 workers for each retiree, the hit to a paycheck in the 1930’s was minimal, if noticed at all. The architects of SSI probably expected 40:1 to mostly hold and never drop below 10:1, but they didn’t anticipate that men would live to be 72 on average and women 80, nor that alcoholics/drug addicts/mental defectives and many young people who seem quite able to do some kind of paying work will be added to the SSI payment rolls as “Permanently Disabled” and given a check (not as much as the largest SSI Retirement, but plenty to live thrifty with a little casual cash-generating work/crime supplement) for the rest of their lives.

      I don’t hate people who have taken what is so casually given. The chains are light and are placed on slowly so you can get accustomed to them. Hope with Chains come with deep-fried almond-filled pastry and a place to live, all-expenses-paid, like you have won a lifetime cruise. The people who deserve a beating are those who take money from working folks and give it away for their own political benefit while keeping the piggy bank full and heavy-seeming by inserting worthless rocks through the rubber belly plug.

      Let’s not talk about “justice” right now.


  9. To the more general point: the talk I have seen from various older folks to the effect of “come’n git me ya whippersnappers” – that misses the point. We (I am young enough to say “we”) are not going to come get you. We are just going to not put sufficient productive labor into the system to provide what you have been promised. Whatever social security or Medicare you’ve been promised, you won’t get. You’ll have creaking bones and bad internal plumbing and various bits of organic machinery going wrong and _nobody will be fixing it_, because there will be no free government money for it.

    Except if you have kids. Then you can probably count on them to do what they can. Which still may not be as good as what free government money could.

    The rest? Horror stories about old people dying abandoned in their homes or on the streets will stop being horror stories, because they wiill become too common, and the only possible reaction will be “Nichevo”.

    “It can’t be helped.”

    That’s your peat bog. Dying alone and un-cared for and nobody able or willing to do anything about it. Nobody’s going to come put you in it; it’s lurking there all around you the whole time, just waiting for you to lose the path.

    For myself, I’ve been expecting for a long time to have to work till I die, and that “retirement” will never exist for me.

    • I agree with that. It’s not a question of spite, either, but merely an economic reality. It’s been long said that a large family was the original “social security.”

    • Except if you have kids who you did a good job raising to be hard-working, effective adults who can see value in keeping the folks around. Medical care and general purchasing power can also be had by those who both saved and invested in things that are not Dollar-denominated or debt-based. Useful merchandise, monetary metals, service/skills, access control to needed supplies like water/fuel/electricity/property/external finance will make some animals more able to access what is needed than others without.

      Family will be the safety net. Extended family is “tribe”, which could be genetic relations, religious or fraternal affiliation, geographic proximity based.

      Government may try to interfere with saving older family members. The “Death Panel” may determine that no medical intervention is allowed for individuals over a certain age (unless determined to be “Socially Useful” -a NAZI eugenics phrase- like a politically-powerful or famous person with connections might be) so ignoring the law by family would be critical.

      “Retirement” as the post-WWII era knows it for an average worker is an aberration in human history. Even getting “old” will become more rare. It may be interesting!


  10. millerized

    “For myself, I’ve been expecting for a long time to have to work till I die, and that “retirement” will never exist for me.”

    Yup, me neither!

    But my plan is a bit different. I plan on not making it to retirement age, having spilled my blood on some not so distant battlefield, in defense of a Nation that forgot what it was all about, how it was born, and standing idly by as it dies.

    I’m 45, and honestly, I don’t see myself getting to 50. What’s coming, is coming fast. It WILL be here within our lifetimes, and it will effect each and every one of us. Count on it, Embrace it, Let it fill you with the rage that you’ll need to make your mark. Once you can come to terms with it, the rest is easy.

  11. You’re missing the point.

    The Einstein quote I was referring to is “Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”

    That we are all human beings and subject to certain fundamental truths is obvious. It is also beside the point. Some human beings behave differently from others. There are various ways of reacting to this, but to simply assert that us all being human and that this _should_ be enough to unite us and make inter-human problems go away has nothing to do with resolving the very real causes of those differences – causes which exist while also not negating the fundamental humanity of anybody involved.

    The USA’s official religion for the past 50 years has been that all human beings are the same, really truly ARE THE SAME, that discrimination (synonym for judgement) of any sort is illegitimate, that because of the assumption that people are all the same they should be treated all the same – this is how we get to a world where Mexican and Nigerian illegals have an unquestioned _right_ to come here 8 months pregnant, pop out their babies, and have _you_ pay for all of it, and those kids have a _right_ to go to college paid for with student aid aka your tax money and your kid’s inflated tuition. Because they’re JUST THE SAME AS YOU. And that means they have just as much right to your money as you do. And …

    That’s what you’re repeating when you appeal to fundamental shared humanity.

    All human beings are human. This is true, and not relevant to the issues that divide us.

  12. Rollory, I agree with most of that. The problem is, those behaviors are not in accord with human nature. No one has the right to force other people to subsidize their lives, do you agree? No one has a right, because it is not in accord with human nature. Human nature has two huge aspects: intellect and free will. Using our intellect, we can abstract that socialism doesn’t work. Why doesn’t it work? Because it is a contradiction of human free will. It is saying, “You must surrender the fruits of your labor to this person, or else.” A coercion of the free will, and hence, a violation of the free will, and a violation of human nature. Truly, socialism/Statism is sub-human. It is anti-social.

    • Fantastic. Now go preach it to the hordes. I’m sure you’ll find many takers.

      The rest of us are left to deal with reality on reality’s terms, not the terms of doctrine.

      • Witchwood, you’re sounding a mite belligerent today. Any reason for that?

        Reality? There’s nothing more “real” than what I’m “preaching.” Defend yourself from the hordes, by all means. Those who are actually doing the stomping, etc. But you will not repair society by means of violence. Only true notions of what it is to be human, lived out by men who believe them, can repair society. It’s why Communism failed, and the current Socialism has failed. They denied the existence and properties of the objective reality called “human nature.”

    • Forgive me. I find that my tolerance for Bible-waiving is diminishing.

      My tolerance for any sort of universalism is nil.

      I encourage you to reread your own posts. “Humanity” will never be united, and frankly, that is as it should be. I don’t think you’d want to be united with many of those who were “made in God’s image.”

  13. LFMayor,
    Hezekiah Wyman, “Death On A Pale Horse”, was one of those Dangerous Old Men
    All along the route back to Boston was made the legend of the white horseman who charged again and again against the british, killing and wounding a number of the enemy, but always escaping untouched by the shower of bullets around him


    • Alan W. Mullenax

      Fifty-five years old in the late 18th century was pretty friggin old.

      I now feel like a scamp at 60.

      Thanks Brian.

  14. Alan W. Mullenax

    Bovine manure.

    My money is there.

    It just need not be given to some rat bastard that neither earned or deserves it.

    If you can get your head around that fact, you’ll be much better off.

    Further, you just might come to a realization that picking up a gun and killing the worthless detritus and their benefactors is in your best interests.

    They are, after all, communists.

    Anathema to our form of government and way of life.

    Just sayin’.

  15. Alan,

    Clearly, you do not understand how the Socialist Security Ponzi scheme works. All money you paid into the pyramid scheme has already been paid out years ago. The second it gets taken from anyone’s paycheck today, it’s gone.

    I can tell you have already chosen to believe something contrary to the facts, just so you can get “your money.”

  16. Well hell no one gets out alive anyway.
    The number one denied fact in the universe.
    I aint feeling sorry for the us Boomers, we had a good run still got a few things up our sleeves yet.
    But brothers and sisters we will make an exit, each and every one.

    There was one very good idea, the one suggesting you go to an Appleseed but he had the reason wrong. Go to teach them young boys and girls a thing or two you may know and leave something behind. Get off you rear ends and teach some of these kids, they are going to need it. Put everything you have learned into someone else’s head. Resist the urge to be bitter.

    Sorry guys thats how it works, not my rules or else I’d never grow old and never check out.

  17. Real progress has been made. Two years ago, the anarchists explaining Austrian economics in these comments were shouted down by Republicans who wanted to impose their flavor of “ordered liberty”. Today the argument about constitutions has been won, and the front has moved to why it is evil and stupid for small groups of survivors to kill and loot other survivors for a living — why government is evil and stupid at every size, at every time and place, in every situation of war and peace.

    The over-65 will continue to work for a living, to manufacture their own necessities of life. Probably take them one day a week to keep all the robots in repair, after the middle class worldwide discovers to its surprise that it is almost independently wealthy.

  18. Alan W. Mullenax

    Ok, ok. I’m a reasonable man. I’m willing to negotiate.

    How about you/they/whoever keep my money. Let’s just kill the communists.

    Or, I can go even further. Quit taking my money. Leave me alone. And the communists can live.

    Truth be known, I prefer door number three. It allows me to continue enjoying brewed products and fine cigars. It also allows me to keep working on making the best sandwich in the world and opening a little restaurant before I die.

    I really am reasonable.

    • Alan, there are legitimate means of recovering money that has been stolen from you. It just doesn’t come by means of Socialist Security.

      Everyone here is in favor of quitting taking your money and leaving you alone.

  19. Alan W. Mullenax

    I know Brass, I know. I really do feel I’m among friends here.

    Sometimes I write for those “other” people that visit here from time to time.

    You know, those people that insist upon dragging that stick across the bars of the tiger’s cage.

    And the tiger’s irritated.

    He’s beginning to watch the bastard closely.

    There are moments where a quick bound and a reach between the bars will allow the claws to sink in tight so that the irritant can be pulled up to the cage.

    You know that, right?

  20. Well, GD it, when is anyone going to bring up deep-sea fishing rights? Kidding aside, I am an old man now, and I will live until I die. I will fight if I have to, run if I have to, starve if I have to, do whatever I have to, until it isn’t neccessary anymore. If the whippersnappehs intend to toss me in the peat bog, well, it’ll probably be with my dead body, as I am real touchy about those live burials. Am I repentant about the conditions we find ourselves in? You bet. Is it all my fault? Not really. Partly. Hell, at least I’m willing to try and correct the problem. I’ve never tried to play the part of the Pure-as-the-driven-snow-guy. If any of you knew me personally, you’d probably think I am a monster. I AM a monster. Just like you, I got my failures and shortcomings. One day, G*d willing, you will get old too. So, when you set your standards for when to pop Grandad into the blender, just keep in mind that YOU are going the way of all flesh, just like me, and that age, like Sgt. Yorks pistol, touches off kinda easy. One day you’re seven, standing in a snowsuit, looking at a clear blue sky, with a Super Connie passing overhead, and you think you could never be so happy. Next day you’re waking up from surgery, puking your guts out, and then after calming down, and the nurse putting a catheter expertly in place, so’s you don’t explode in a piss-blinding storm, you notice how clear and nice her arms look, and you look at your own, all wrinkled and scarred and brown, and you muse for the thousandth time, “What happened?”. Life, and hopefully, maturity, is going to catch up with all of you, and you will have to learn to smile, and adjust, and be a part of the population that for the most part, is zooming past you, and do what you can in the time you have left to help and impart something of value to them. Out looking for monsters to destroy? Look no further than your own skin, because if we failed, and screwed it all up, you can do the exact same thing, given a little time, and a little tiredness. If you’re in some kind of rush to destroy the past and it’s mistakes, don’t be suprised when it repeats, for you.

  21. I’m glad that people here are slowing down and considering what is being said.

    1. I’m a Gen Xer and, believe me, those on “our side” have no use for the ones who are on “their side.” You have plenty, PLENTY of people of our generation watching your back. Plenty.

    2. We should all calm down and cease in-fighting about Social Security and deserving to get “our money” back. The pass we have come to was reached by design – we are arguing amongst each other to weaken our unity for the benefit of those who created this problem. Stop that and focus on the problem. As has been noted above, that money is GONE, it was stolen from ALL OF US.

    3. The savages are not the problem. A society that tolerates savagery is the problem and, as people step up and squash this bullshit as the state withers, the savagery will diminish. That said, don’t live where savages have sufficient numbers to be so much of a problem.

    4. The tribe is where it’s at. I see a return to multi-generational households as a blessing. We are in the process of getting my wife’s folks (who are, bar none, the most survival-centric people I know) moved close to us, but also have them in our home a few nights a month. My son can learn from his Paw-Paw what he needs to learn from him, and I will fill in what blanks I can. You old guys without kids, well, sorry, good luck, I hope you have a network of friends that will outlive you.

    • Old guys without kids are welcome to get involved and pass some of their knowledge on. That creates a network.

      • Absolutely – I apologize if I seemed dismissive of old guys without kids. The two strongest mentors in my life are an old guy without kids and and old guy with kids who can’t be bothered.

    • Hear, hear.

    • It is an oddity of life that many times it is far easier to make a connection with a grandson that it was with the son. Let the more perceptive than I work out why that is.
      Teach every moment you can with a smile and realize one day you will live in that future man’s memory and life.