Read it all.
This will not end well.
But it most certainly will end.
Divided country? You bet. All that remains is dividing their left lobes from their right lobes. Short of that, a left leg and a right arm will do. Loves me them crowds of righteous leftards, they make such good aiming points, uh, as uh, AREA type targets. Ahem.
All is possible, folks. In Davis’s last paragraph, I’d disagree that time allows the other folks to fortify positions and lay in supplies. No. The other folks are not of that sort to do such things. They have not in them, to find the learned discipline to fortify well or to lay in much of anything, and they don’t have leaders of the sort that they would accept, to teach them those skills.
We can win whatever fight that the other people want to bring on.
Now, go do more PT. Or do more study on radio comms, whatever makes you more valuable for the future.
Cut myself off too short. So… in addition to going and doing PT just because your enemy gets paid to do it…study on how you can be of be of benefit to your tribe. Are you looking into radio, and how you can communicate with others at long range? Thought here, is the commo between Stalingrad and Berlin in late January ’43. When the internet no longer works, people skilled with radios do have to tell their story, even if the story is not a pleasant one to pass on. It still needs to be told, whether by voice radio or by Morse code. Morse is a good thing to learn.
Another benefit of you to your tribe, is the medical skills that you take on. There’s enough out there for info, and I’m unlikely to convince you to go get that information if you are not ready to take the instruction. The difference between you and yours living or dying might be a big deal… a person might step up and get schooled in order to make that difference, no?
Then there is that factor of skill at arms, the arms and ammo laid in, and the schooling of your tribe that winning against the other folks might involve. Much has been said about those subjects here and elsewhere, and I won’t beat it anymore just now. Just know, that the abilities of you to 1) Move well with extra weight on, that gear that you’re previously familiar with, in an adverse environment. Right now, it is just extra weight on your daily walkarounds… right? 2) Communicate via radio with others, those others being in other countries, when phones and computers are down; 3) Have supplies and skills to patch up some problems, and know where to source underground doctors for what you can’t do; 4) Lastly, there’s the deal of skill at arms. I won’t go there much, there is plenty of others to take up the slack. But all of the people in your tribe do need to have some skill. How it is to be developed, would be dependant on how things devolve with little communities as the bigger country goes North.
The word “tribe” seems to come up here once again. I do think that the word, and what it involves, is bait for the arnichists, or for libertarians who put their current thoughts above the survival of the tribe in a gone-North situation. As always, looking for thoughts…
Quiet. So I’ll step back in and modify the previous idea about having supplies and skills to patch up some problems, and knowing where to source underground doctors for what you can’t do.
The attempted federal takeover of personal health care, has likely put, in N. B. Forrest’s word, a “skeer” onto people as they look for a compentent and anonymous source of heath care. Where is a person to go, when something must be patched up (or worse), with no reporting?
Lacking good or like-minded Docs, there are a couple of other avenues to look at. First, and maybe the harder one to come by, is a military-trained medic. Competence can range from low-level Army (which I spent ten weeks at FSH to learn, and don’t think I’m real good at) to SF medic, and to whatever level the services other than Army train their people to. My money (greenbacks) go to Army 18Ds as the best service provider below medical doctors.
The other route for medical care, which I know from anecdotes that it has been and still is popular in my AO, is to use the services, knowledge, and script-writing ability of a veterinarian. Lots of broke-down cowboys have presented themselves at doc’s offices here, with radiographs displaying the logo of a vet clinic. In that sort of situation, professional courtesy does take a backseat to greenbacks, and that is not such a bad thing. In fact it’s a nice thing, and something to get wrapped around.
If depending on either of those above routes for your day-to-day health care, or for the treatment of wounds that should not be reported, the obvious thing is to develop your relationships early on, as friends with mutual interests.
I would trust 18Ds and horse doctors with my health, before engaging with people docs and the rules they run under. Of course, there are exceptions. I’ve met a couple of good Docs while BS’ing in the pits during rifle matches. You can maybe find a licensed Doc who is on the side of FreeFor, or the net can be cast wider to get arguably the same level of competence. Or at least, the level of competence that may be able to keep you and your tribe alive.
I knew we were divided. I knew this intellectually, but I didn’t really KNOW IT – VISCERALLY – until this week.
I’ve been blessed to spend a fair amount of time of late talking to a young man “from the other side of the tracks” – one who it’s intelligent enough to enjoy the debate without sinking to ad-hominems or worse…
I really didn’t KNOW hiw deeply ingrained is the sense of entitlement, the outright hatred for republicans or the sense of identification with The Won – “My Boy BARACK…”…
The trouble is that I LIKE this young man, I KNOW hiw deeply deluded he is and have PROVEN how resistant to PROOF …
It pains me to think of him as The Enemy – MY Enemy – but he is. It pains me even more to think of what that may mean, someday…
It also makes me HATE the Bastards responsible even more than before – something I would recently have sworn wasn’t possible…
God help us – and GOD SAVE OUR REPUBLIC!
Hope all is well with CA. While things are quiet, I have a question for the gun hands:
What’s a good home defense load for a 12 gauge?
Depends on whether you have close neighbors or kids in another room. If no close neighbors or kids in the next room 00 buck, otherwise, if it”s close and their are neighbors and or kids, #6 or #4 birdshot should work, I tried the patterns at about seven yds. with a #6 dove load at an indoor range on an FBI Q target and the pattern was about 4~6″, should stop a perp.
Never fired on flesh, so YMMV. Hope I helped.
Hope I helped.
You surely did. Thanks, Wayne.
I’ve got to VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE with anyone suggesting ANY “birdshot” for home defense.
It utterly lacks penetration in flesh, and thus is highly unlikely to do the job on the goblin. Meanwhile, at home-wall distances, the shot-column is still dense enough to go through drywall like a hot knife through butter.
In other words, “all the danger, none of the desired effect.”
Google is your FRIEND – and there’s more than ample information out there which will put this junk to bed.
IF BIRDS ARE INVADING YOUR HOME, BIRDSHOT IS ADEQUATE DEFENSE. OTHERWISE, IT IS **WORTHLESS**!!
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It is true. Birdshot does not have consistent enough penetration to reliably penetrate clothing and reach vital organs and stop the perpetrator.
00, 1 or 4-buck.
Family needs to be *TRAINED.* Mine know that when they see/hear/etc. our top-secret “oh sh*t” signal, to get under the bed – which SHOULD protect them from shot. *I* know where the beds are, and thus know whe
Believe it or not, testing shows the safest home-defense weapon to be a .223! The bullets basically explode when they hit drywall, and the resultant shrapnel didn’t seem to have enough energy to penetrate flesh!
OTOH, almost everything else including pistol bullets went straight through…
I know where the beds are, and thus where the “no shoot” zones are located.
Don’t know what happened there…
I stand corrected and humbly ask forgiveness, seems it’s already been tested on humans. Flesh wounds. I apologize for spreading inaccurate info, now I have to load my shotties with 00 Buck. Thanks for correcting me.
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DD: “Belive it or not,”
To tell you the truth, that sounds like a “not”. However, sometime soon I will test it out….with HP, FMJ, and green tips.
Here’s some info that should help get you started…
First, from Arfcom: Note the depth of the wound-channels AFTER going through drywall! http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
This is even better. The guy tried to be realistic, separating his walls by more than a few inches… Bottom line – with the right ammo, fragments didn’t have enough energy to even crack the paper on the second wall!
Here’s some more info on shotguns – http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm – especially note their recommendation for only “O-buck” – 0, 00, 000, etc. Note also the anecdotes about “bird shot”…
There are other reasons (besides less overpenetration) that the .223/5.56 rifle is superior for home defense:
More accurate than a pistol
More accurate plus Less recoil than shotgun
Add in a laser on an AR/Mini, and you’ve got something that even women/kids should be able to handle accurately!
TRUST ME – it took A LOT for me to get there!
But I’m there — my mini-14 has become my “bedside gun”…
PS to WayneB — I don’t see any reason for you to “humbly ask forgiveness.” I’ve been spouting the same sort of stuff for many years, because that was the “conventional wisdom” and NOBODY seemed to know any better!
Now that we have real-world tests and real-fight data to consider, it turns out that “conventional wisdom” was full of it! Still, nobody knows any better until someone directs them to the info!
I’ve tried to contact those I could to tell them what I’d learned and thatI’d givene them bad info in the past — but many times I couldn’t………
Here’s the same drywall test in what seems a better/cleaner format but no q&a/comments…
Even Gabriel Suarez addresses the fact that 55 FMJ is safer than pistol and shotgun rounds indoors, and cited FBI testing. I’m not a fan of Gabriel Suarez, but he is knowledgeable about such things.
The discussion reminds me of the guy and his revolver in “Johnny Dangerously.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQvtfHJZTUc
This is, for the most part, true.
Google has a lot of info (some of it’s even useful), but in a pinch, birdshot inflicts horrific, painful, and utterly disgusting to behold shallow tissue injuries.
Birdshot wouldn’t be my first choice -don’t get me wrong here- but it’s not completely worthless, either.
#1 or 00 buck would be my personal first choice if I were to use a scattergun for home defense. I love my Saiga 12. It’s #2 in line for defending the family against bumps in the night and assorted zombies.
Key words: “in a pinch.”
The USUAL reasons B.S. (heh…) is mentioned (less danger to bystanders on other side of wall) are BS.
ERGO, B.S. is BS!
Beats nothing, but not viii I’m
Don’t want to beat a dead horse, but…
Here’s more good info. First they fired various calibers through a wall into gelatin – and found the 223 had least penetration (ie: least wound to innocent on other side).
Next test to see what would exit a “house” – once again the .223 proved least unsafe.
The BAD PARTS of these tests is the limited/poor selection of 223 ammo IMHO. Other info seems to show that lighter/faster bullets in.223 provide better “safety” while still being likely to take care of the goblins.
This would be a GREAT project for someone to test!
Birdshot in a cut-shell is quite effective. It all depends on how you use it.
Don’t want to beat the dead horse too much about what you all are going to do when your cell phones and internet goes down… but I was able to test for Tech and General class operating privileges per the FCC this past weekend, and managed to pass both.
What this means, is that a person can learn to talk around the world, when the world after cell phones and internet does not work anymore, that with some more study and experience. A skilled person can do Gruess Gott to Berlin, as the world crashes down, and as your handwritten diary is likey to be lost to a person worse off than you, who uses it as fire tinder.
Depending on your world view, this could be a thing to pursue. Or you could just wait for the power and some internet privileges to come back on, make your choice as to what you’d do in the meantime now, not later. Defending bad choices on the internet is easier now than defending them without internet.
Oops – CRAP!
I *HATE* when I forget to include a link! – http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=26
PF: I agree that learning HAM is a smart move – though I doubt licensing will be much of a problem in a SHTF/WROL situation (wink/grin)…
Sure makes practicing NOW (without risking one’s teat in a wringer) a bit easier, though…
Thank you for your comments, Prairie Fire.
I know that other people are reading your comments and it is helping them think critically.
Keep doing your thing.
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