DumpDC: Who Will Be First?

Russell looks at secession-state possibilities.

Much is possible in tumultuous times.

Audentes fortuna iuvat.

25 responses to “DumpDC: Who Will Be First?

  1. It will likely be the state which is the least-likely to be choked out by FAA or USDA or HHS or DOH or SSA or HUD or DOT or IRS or FCC or…

    Who said the US Government needs a strong national army to suppress secession (or even assertions of 10th Amendment authority against, say, TSA groping)?

    No need to invade- just forbid any private company from flying into this or that airport or from using that road into or out of the state or from providing phone and internet to or from any state in a condition of “insurrection”, or forbid any chain store from accepting EBT Cards used in such a state, or credit/debit cards, or just freeze all electronic transactions from banks’ branches in that state, or halt entitlements to all citizens in that state, or…

    Tom Baugh’s pieces on Crisis Secession still stand, IMO.

    And besides, to be independent, you have to be, well, independent.

    “Not dependent” means from independent from national corporations that will immediately bow to federal sanctions and pressures.

    It means getting your seniors off the federal dole for their subsistence, and figuring out what to do with them when they must depend on their shattered and destroyed nuclear families for their survival.

    It means figuring out how to pay people without any out-of-state internet connectivity or telecommunications, or once national big (TBTF) banks freeze (and help seize) your state’s assets.

    It means figuring out how you’re gonna stop the rioting crowds who are unable to feed or govern themselves once the EBT cards (or insert umbilical entitlement here) are shut off.

    It means figuring out just what the hell all those formerly employed citizens are going to do once their nationally-based employers lay them off and shut down. Refineries, for example, could be commandeered and continue to run, but how are the monies going to be moved? And what of when, for example, all of the pipelines into “X” state are shut down?

    Many many challenges exist, but I think we’re far off from execution phase…but…

    Black Swans have a way of changing things around.

    I think secession is the most likely solution, or will be the most likely impetus or stimuli to provoke the most likely to succeed solution-

    But first, the nitty-gritty groundwork has to be laid.

    • alan w. mullenax

      Of which there’s none.

      And how pray tell does a state secede? Is there gonna be a vote? Does the Govenor just decide? Does an oligarchy take control? How?

      Seems nebulous to me.

      • Disciple of Night

        Virginia has a convention of state representatives, then took it to a public referendum.

      • Alan, if there is no groundwork in a particular local area, then anyone can get involved and help lay it. It is not necessary (or even desirable, given the potential for disruption) at this stage to have a complete and fully formed path, at least not one in the public eye. The conversation alone, however nebulous it may be, provides sufficient value at this point. One positive way forward is to have conversations about the possibility and benefits of secession with those around you in meatspace.

        So, if someone around you bitches about federal issue X, point out how secession might solve that issue. For example, your neighbor might say “I’m really worried about the national debt”. Your response might then be “hmmm, you know, if seceded, that wouldn’t really be our problem any more, would it?”. Be prepared for all the typical knee-jerk programming such as “secession equals slavery”, “we should pay all public debts even if they were obtained by fraud and corruption”, etc. Russ’ site is invaluable for understanding typical objections and their resolution.

        For those new to the discussion, this political morale effort is another arm of that political-military concept we’ve discussed before as a force-multiplier of any militia effort.

        Again, at this stage, it is not necessary to win a heated argument. Merely plant the seeds and politely disengage. Then help your neighbor improve his life in some way meaningful to him. As our crises continue to worsen and compound upon each other, these seeds will sooner or later bear their own fruit…


        • Only one problem Tom. I’m not in favor of secession. As it’s presently portrayed it is “the” solution to the problem. I don’t buy it.

          I still can’t get answers to very basic and direct questions. So I’m skeptical.

          The folks who did this in the 1850’s and ’60’s were much smarter, believed in God to a higher degree, and for the most part had their shit together. This “movement” now relies on the collapse of my country, disregards the basic premises, and in a certain vein, are as dangerous as any other enemy.

          That being said, there is nothing that says a state can’t secede. I would never interfere. I think it to be completely stupid, but a state is in fact allowed to go.

          So, get on with it. I’m sure you guys got everything in place, right? If it’s the right answer, then what the fuck are you waiting for? Do it.

          The fact is you can’t. You got nothing. The problems that plague the nation as a whole plague the states as well. At present, no state in the Union is seriously considering secession. And breaking it up exposes all of us to even greater danger. I should think that you smarter guys would understand that. And that gives me pause as well.

          One more thing, attempt to force it on me… Well, just don’t.

  2. Prairie Fire

    The author’s position that Montana would need to import petro resources might stand another look. The Bakken formation (Williston Basin) includes several counties in eastern Montana. There is a refinery in Laurel.

    In that place, if there’s some little problems to be solved getting the product out of the ground and to the pump … there’s a bunch of talent on the ground, waiting for their federal leashes to be cast off.

  3. There’s also a refinery in Great Falls, MT; and maybe one or two others.

  4. OK, these are valid logistical considerations. The above respondents have made it abundantly clear that this isn’t 1861. With that in mind, let us return to the original question, “who will be first to secede” and state which one. Of course, national and world events may make this occur anyway and suddenly, but be that as it may, given these considerations, it appears to me that the state with the least percentage of citizens dependent on the national government is the most likely candidate.

  5. Here’s an interesting comment to my posting of this story over on my Facebook page.

    “Palmetto Patriot
    I think that way before Texas secedes from the Empire, States such as Germany, Japan, Colombia, Spain, etc. will go. The Empire is much larger than the 50 States. Much larger. And some areas of it are much closer to secession than we are here.

    A German-Chinese-Russian axis is forming and it’s a lot bigger than those three countries. Most of South America will eventually join it, as will much of the Middle East. If I’m right, Israel may not be around much longer. They are hated by everyone and have created enemies everywhere. I know they have nukes and all the technology US taxpayers can buy for them, but I don’t see them surviving in the long run. Won’t that really mess with the world-view of the Dispensationalists?! lol Anyhow, as the counter-alliance becomes more explicit lots of opportunities will appear. I see nothing but opportunity and challenge on the horizon – and that’s much better than the status quo. Anyhow, my two cents.”

  6. Hawaii goes first! The USA has already apologized for stealing Hawaii from the Hawaiin people, formally, in bill, signed into law by President Clinton.

    “With the support of Senators Daniel Inouye and Daniel Akaka of Hawaii, Congress passed a joint resolution called the “Apology Resolution” (US Public Law 103-150). It was signed by President Bill Clinton on November 23, 1993. This resolution apologized “to Native Hawaiians on behalf of the people of the United States for the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii on January 17, 1893… and the deprivation of the rights of Native Hawaiians to self-determination.” The implications of this resolution have been extensively debated.[15][16]

    Senator Akaka proposed what is called the Akaka Bill to extend federal recognition to those of Native Hawaiian ancestry as a sovereign group similar to Native American tribes.[17]”

    Given this FedGov doesn’t really have the moral high-ground to resist a broad based Hawaiin sovereignity movement.

    Currently though, the Hawaiin sovereignity movement is a racially-oriented movement, so isn’t gaining a lot of traction with the non-Hawaiian (White, Asian, mixed-race) majority. That may well change though, and when it does the stage is already set for independence.

    And, once one goes, others will follow.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “And, once one goes, others will follow.”

      When it comes to states in the Lower 48, that’s likely enough. Alaska and Hawaii could leave and not take anyone else, since neither is connected to the main body of the US in any way. Them leaving won’t put their neighbors to a choice, because they have none.

  7. Actic Patriot: I think your scenario is interesting, but might be a little too grim. Big international corporations are already used to changes in political reality – they just try hard to keep doing business. I don’t think too many of them are fiercely loyal to the orders of Washington DC, especially the ones headquartered in other countries. Exxon doesn’t want Texas oil, OK, I bet Royal Dutch Shell, BP or Arco does.

    The states already administer Food Stamps and Section 8, so they are in a good position to continue those in some form, should they choose to.

    I haven’t read Tom Baugh’s article, but I will try to. I found his book really hard to get through.

  8. Love that flag!

  9. I, too, believe secession is the inevitable answer to the schisms in the American body politic.

    However, and not unlike the years leading up to the Revolution, the groundwork has to be done. The first step is to rescue the word itself, secession, from the baggage it carries. When confronted with the word or the concept, the average American (and even some Patriots) immediately think “Confederacy”, “slavery”, “racism”, “Jim Crow”, “lynchings” and so on. The associations have only been strengthened after 100 years of widespread public schooling.

    The best model for a path forward may be one laid down by Jason Soren, of the Free State Project:

    In short, begin with “repatriation” of powers, follow through with the establishment of “autonomous” zones (not necessarily the same geographically as the states, BTW), and finish with formal secession. Just as power was centralized in fits and starts, bit by bit, the process can be reversed utilizing the same strategic vision.

    IOW, keep your powder dry, ’cause this ain’t happening anytime soon.

  10. Free State Project

    No minority ever voted itself free. Freedom-lovers have always been a minority, everywhere, even in early America. You could fruitfully reenact a variation on MLK’s movement, with Threepers and the Internet reprising the role of the Deacons for Defense and Justice as security to protect libertarian freedom riders putting on a morality play to generate bad PR for liberal white voters.

    Military strength comes from economic strength; wealth creates options. Start your small doctors’ practices, gun factories, and farms, start them this week as sidelines. Be a plumber or mechanic or dentist in a van with no office. This productivity creates your wealth. File registration paperwork in a Starve the Monkey fashion that hides you in the middle of the herd, and reveals you as just another barely-surviving middle class peasant on the treadmill. Don’t pick fights, don’t throw your “sexuality” (libertarianism) in their faces. You don’t need social acceptance, you need liberty. You will find that many of the snitches are existing businesses in your field, who have erected the licensing and permitting requirements to ban competition from upstarts like you. If zoning, taxing, and permitting tolerates you, that’s great, that’s what you want. If it comes after you, that’s where the morality play PR comes in. Don’t be pacifist, defend yourself and don’t submit to beatings, but do generate all the bad press you can as you evade the enforcement and relocate your operation elsewhere. When the enemy masses strength, the defenders fade back and disperse to dissolve the target; when the enemy is weak the good guys run with it in that temporary opportunity. What projects do you have in the mental queue today, with all the supplies bought, that you will do in a sprint if you get a two day window unobserved etc.? When you have the choice, increase your bad PR as high as possible without provoking a backlash. This is the maximum benefit for you and the maximum cost to the freedom-squishers.

  11. I have mixed feelings about this…Secession…Thing. Any one (Texas) or small group of states (Alaska, Montana/Wyoming, Ariz/Tex) would be easily reeled in by the Central Regime. If 10-20 States go more-or-less at once (an L-shaped New Confederacy, extended down from Alaska, thru the High Plains and Midwest, then into the Southeast) and take significant military assets (Nat Guard, others) with them, I’d still expect the Federals to win, tho not w/o a good fight. Point is, the Central Regime has to be substantially weakened FIRST by economic collapse and civil disturbance and THEN largely destroyed through Civil War before any real subnation(s) can emerge and survive. In short, we can’t make the Old South’s mistake of “seceeding away” and fighting defensively until too late. We’ll have to “secede toward” and first destroy the Central Regime.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      A currency collapse would allow for immediate secession. Hell, it might even effectively force it, as states rebound at different speeds. You could basically wake up one morning to find the Feds out of business. There’d still be Fed buildings and such, but they’d have basically no reach (and probably no one showing up to work).

  12. People forget that the 1860-65 war was between a nation of 9 million people, three million of which were workers held to service (slaves), and a nation of 28 million people that also had a huge in migration of Europeans who they drafted right off the boats.

    That huge disparity of potential forces no longer exists. If you include all of the old Confederate States and compare them to the north east you get approximate population parity.

    Further, the manufacturing deficit of the southern states no longer exists, it has shifted towards the south too. We make lots of things here now, including aircraft, cars, and weapons of all types. Are any cars still made in a Yankee state?

    While we think the economic collapse will come to the US government forcing them to secede from us, we also do not think an effete government with a military full of, being kind, deviants will pose a significant threat to any seceded state.

    Which state would furnish the US government with men and material if South Carolina seceded?

    • Now, now, Pat, let’s not forget that the North East is still the world’s leader in manufacturing weapons of mass economic destruction such as regulations, derivatives, government bonds, complicit media and other festoons of modern slavery. That capability is apparently all that is needed to be a superpower.

      Until Grandma’s Social Security check or Billy Bob’s military retirement check can’t buy a can of Alpo at any price, that is.

      (tick, tock, tick, tock …)

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “That huge disparity of potential forces no longer exists. If you include all of the old Confederate States and compare them to the north east you get approximate population parity.”

      How would the South be able to use it’s extensive tax eater populations? All of the big cities are majority-minority or close to it, and those communities primarily either work for the government, or are supported by it. There are a lot of retirees in the South, too, plus a lot of Yankee transplants who definitely aren’t down with any sort of Southern Independence.

      There aren’t really any easy scenarios anywhere, excepting maybe Hawaii, but they’ve got a big Federal military presence to worry about.

  13. Mr. Doom and Gloom

    Just cull the herd folks! But see, you ain’t gonna cull the herd. They are. You know, those guys they call… TP’sTB. Those guys you call stupid and dumb and idiots. Those guys you claim can’t survive their own plans… and have.

    Don’t think they’ll get away with it? How many of you waved your flags in righteous indignation on dial emergency 911 and got… all patriotic? Maybe some of you see through the smoke and mirrors. The vast majority do not… but they have “enemies.” And they are going to kill one another in patriotic fervor. It will be a war like no other. And science has come a long way baby. 😉 They, TP’sTB, will, like they always do like puppets on a string, use the booboisie. Do you know who you will be? You’ll be the unpatriotic. You’ll be the enemy sympathizer. You’ll be denounced. And hunted down. Your wives and children and fathers and mothers and friends will turn you in… while they themselves will suffer every indignity in the name of national security. In the name of national unity. In the name of self-preservation… and call it patriotism.

    The people will be played like a fiddle. Until they beg for mercy. Until they beg for peace… at any cost.

    Someone has to worship the Beast. Some worship it now and look forward to his coming.

    You have one chance to stop this. I suggest all you patriots get cracking.


    You’re gonna wish you had.

  14. Perhaps many are looking at this issue from the wrong side. The USS Titanic is sinking. It is economically, spiritually, morally and socially bankrupt. The question is are you going down with the ship or how do you get off? If you still believe that the US government can be reformed, then most do not see the issue. Patrick Henry addressed this in his great speech in 1775 (http://spofga.org/build/2012/free_texas.php). Actually his most fameous speech applies to us today in many ways.

    • Cassandra (of Troy)

      Mike Crane/30Aug12@12:30,

      It appears that there’re 3 simultaneous tracks (Political, economic, the action of an external threat) that could trigger widespread social chaos & a subsequent civil war which would likely lead to either the breakup of the U.S.A. or the voluntary/involuntary imposition of a dictatorship. The combination of the first & last tracks are especially fraught w/ peril as history shows them to be the most likely to be exploited by opportunists, & a combination of the first & 2d tracks also has a dangerous historical precedent for exploitation as that was how the Bolsheviks & Nazis attained power. Huey Long & FDR (& to an extent, Nixon) successfully used that approach to gain power & in the latter 2 cases resulted in election as PoTUS.

      So much for the popular conceit that “such things can’t happen here in America because of the wisdom & common sense of the American people”.

      Cassandra (of Troy)