DumpDC: Escape From America


Plan B?

You have one, right?

20 responses to “DumpDC: Escape From America

  1. I dunno, CA. I recognize the logic in this line of reasoning, I really do.

    In spite of that, I can’t help but think that this place and time is more or less the final stand of the concept of American liberty. I’m not talking about “liberty” as defined by any one man or document, such as the Constitution per se, but about, in general, the ideals of the people who came to this land- pre-founder, pre-Revolution, etc., etc. The Americans.

    I mean, if the light dims forever here, where else is one to run?

    Much is lost. There is little time remaining, and I do not believe that the exodus of like-minded people spells hope. I believe it spells ultimate defeat.

    Again, I recognize the logic in fleeing to a “more ideal” place, but really, what is the endpoint of that approach? One cannot run forever, constantly looking for a “more ideal” place that grows increasingly less ideal as formerly “safe” refuges fall.

    I don’t have the answer, and don’t pretend to. I don’t know that there is a “good” or “right” answer to this, so I won’t pretend to.

    All I can do is pray that I do not fail to do my duty to my family and people- whatever that entails, whether running away or standing here and shouldering my share of the coming horror.

    So like I said, I just don’t know.

    We all die, I suppose. The final victory is, after having lived well, to die well.

    I do not believe I can or that I would want to run. Whatever that entails, for better or worse. I wish like-minded people would not leave, but I cannot really say that I fault them for doing so.

    AP

    • Against the wave of collectivist madness:

      Are we the Cherokee?

      The Jews of the Pale?

      The partisans of the Baltic states?

      The remnant of the US and Filipino forces?

    • Again, I recognize the logic in fleeing to a “more ideal” place, but really, what is the endpoint of that approach? One cannot run forever, constantly looking for a “more ideal” place that grows increasingly less ideal as formerly “safe” refuges fall.

      Please explain why you can’t run forever. The idea that the whole planet turns into a one world government you can’t escape has never historically been true. It’s propaganda to scare you into inaction. If you’re Jewish and German you leave Germany for America. If you’re Christian and American you leave America for somewhere else. Each run nets you 40 years of peaceful life.

      It is an American value to leave the land of your birth and strike out for a land of opportunity. It is a commie idea that you are a peasant and have an unexplained mystical-moral tie to the land and are obligated to exhaust your personal resources in war whenever the local and foreign politicians conspire to set you up for it.

    • Imagine if the new president declares a bigger war on the Middle East, and the top 10% of middle class earners, the doctors, engineers, and entrepreneurs, all voted with their feet and moved to South America. That’s the entire tax base of net taxpayers walking out the door. What would happen to the US? North America would go mad max for a year while the parasitic humans ate each other, as nobody but the high end of the middle class produces enough to support themselves.

      The claim that the rich elites pay most of the taxes is a lie. The rich elites set up government so that they could be net tax recipients on the backs of the workers. That is the purpose of government, always and everywhere.

  2. CA-

    Maybe the Cherokee, and the others to lesser extents. The difference is that there is no hope of relief for us. None at all.

    It is for us to accept this; embrace it. It is on our shoulders alone.

    To quote Beowulf: Fate often enough will spare a man, if his courage holds.

    Then again, fate often demands that the brave die without seeing victory. Many times, the brave die in vain.

    I suppose it is a choice between principle and pragmatism. For me however, these two are ultimately inseparable. Nothing is pragmatic if not based in principle; nothing is principled without having a larger purpose.

    AP

  3. AP, I’m not a runner, either, but history may be more complex than the binary choice we’re talking about here. I am haunted by the faces of the German civilians forced to bury bodies at the camps after the liberation. Many of them were part of the resistance, or wanted to be, but afterward, in the Allies eye’s there was no difference between them and the Nazis. They hated the Nazis, but they were forced to bear the same shame simply because they did not leave, and they did not die. You speak of principle. My principle is that I want to stay, but if the tipping point is reached where there is absolutely no hope of resistance, I will not voluntarily watch my sons conscripted into the tyrant’s army. Thousands of Germans intent on resistance left while there was time and effectively fought from outside, and so did czarist Russians before them and countless others in other conflicts before that. That option should not be disregarded lightly if the only alternative is watching your family become disarmed gravediggers.

    • GruntOfMonteCristo-
      You have some good points here, and I know it is a complex issue, which is why I hesitate to completely and unreservedly come out against runners, and treat it as a personal choice, imploring them to stay.

      If enough leave, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      The runners, OTOH, are not discussing running to effectively fight from the outside, as far as I have seen, they are talking about simply running. Many of them, such as Doug Casey, are talking about running away to keep as much money and freedom of action as possible. I am not saying all runners are this way, but some are.

      I cannot, at this time, commit myself to doing that.

      Should it appear that there’s little to no chance of victory? In my opinion, that is exactly where we are right now.

      It’s a long game.

      Runners are choosing to run out of nothing more than impatience. The real fight has not even been joined yet.

      • You are absolutely right that all the chatter about leaving so far seems to be purely in the “escape and live it up” category. I don’t respect that either, because it’s true that there can be no real refuge from the Commie darkness if we fall. Further, I respect your position and share it regardless of the chances, at least as far as my own death is concerned. The real issue for me is the true strategic situation. I’m NOT well-informed, but I’m still concerned about the scenarios where most of the fights are shut down before they can be joined. If that comes to pass, the only fight will be from outside. Still, I think you’re right to fight that notion, because the self-fullfilling prophesy, to me, is the real threat. So keep up that fight, at least until there’s real teeth to the outside resistance option, and even then.

  4. alan w. mullenax

    I’m about restoring the Constitutional Republic as envsioned by our Founders and bidding adieu to Russell and his ilk.

    • Cassandra (of Troy)

      alan w. mullenax/28Oct12@17:24,

      Restoring the Founder’s Constitutional republic verbatim doesn’t appeal as that’s what’s caused many of our problems, some modifications to it are VERY much in order & the same goes for the BoR. As far as waving bye-bye to the secessionists & their emigrationist soul mates is concerned, I’m witcha mucho. Other than dispossessing & then exporting most of the Canadians & taking that part of NA for a redoubt, there’s no viable place for an unapologetic American to go despite what many claim. For example, were I a college student abroad wearing a backpack w/ an American flag on it (although it’s unlikely that I’d have anything on it other than the mfr’s tags in the first place) I’d have no problem energetically rebuffing physical attempts to desecrate the patch regardless of the legal penalty for doing so. If one dislikes getting beaten to a pulp w/ a chair/piece of pipe/etc & then stomped on/kicked around or even eviscerated w/ a broken bottle or blade, then it behooves one to not to make moves on strangers as their reaction just might be different than one anticipated.

      As that ‘typically American’ (i.e., unrepentantly violent) response to unprovoked assault disqualifies most American males from residence in ‘civilised’ countries like Gwayt Bwittin/Commonwealth as well as Europe, & the rest of the world looks on such behavior even more severely than the previously mentioned countries, it pretty much leaves many of us no other option than staying here & doing the best we can w/ what we’ve got for as long as possible.

      Cassandra (of Troy)

  5. Panama is a great fallback location. I’ve been through a few times in the past decade. Lots to recommend it, as the article lays out. You could do a lot worse. A young bachelor who had an income stream would be in heaven.

    • Admiral Ackbar

      Of course, any small country would immediately be a very nice target for annexation by the new totalitarian version of the US. The Soviets, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Communist North Vietnam, Communist Cuba, Communist China, Ba’athist Iraq, the Argentine Junta – very quickly, they all started looking for new places to conquer. Panama and/or Costa Rica would be easy prey.

    • I hear Panama is crawling with Chicoms who pretty much own the place.

  6. If it is your intent to “fight from the outside”, how do you plan on being effective from Panama? To escape, it sounds like a great choice. As a base for resistance? Please, let’s be real.

    Living in and staging from the rural/mountain/”redoubt” areas of America, it might still be possible to be at least an annoyance to .gov/Federal forces/tyranny, if that is your desire. And you would be available to assist others to survive and/or fight from there. It will never happen from Panama or South America.

  7. I think most of you are looking at this wrong. If not a permanent relocation, how about simply the idea of an orange lifeboat pre-arranged and on standby?

    I cannot recommend highly enough taking some time off and actually living for months at a time in a location of your choosing outside CONUS. Steep learning curve and a proper and deep AAR yields very large dividends to expand your options. We are looking at places as diverse as Panama, Vietnam and Croatia. I just came from Indonesia and there is plenty to recommend Bali as a potential location.

    Like gardening, international visits or relocation cannot be done on the fly. Lots of planning and practice is involved for effective expatting.

    As far as the notion of America improving, it will never happen until it is broken up into constituent nation-states within the present borders. The US is, in fact, that entity that is too big to succeed.

    • “The US is, in fact, that entity that is too big to succeed.”

      I don’t know, Bill. I’m strongly inclined to think it’s the nature of the entity and not its size. After all, even if we assume a tiny community…if the members believe they can rightfully overpower others, it’s only a matter of time till the one gang joins up with the next gang and the next…

      I understand the pragmatic retort, that we must live in the world as it is and that currently, it’s just huge gangs with a few hundred different names.

      A lifeboat is a grand idea, to be sure. But if there’s nowhere to land, I’m not sure it makes all that much difference. Does a small state have all that much more to recommend itself, than a giant one? I can see some benefits, but I can also see some hazards…not the least of which are larger states that don’t want smaller freer states. Everything’s “global,” after all.

      IMO there’s only one reasonable option left…build what we wish, refuse to be stopped and that’s that. Maybe it’ll get crushed like an ant, or maybe others will see the sense of it. Hey, almost nobody was driving a car a mere 110 years ago, yet nearly everyone does now.

    • Cassandra (of Troy)

      Bill Buppert/30Oct12@12:37,

      Vietnam, Indonesia? Those are your serious contenders for relocation? I mean Panama & Croatia were bad enough but those last 2 are hilariously ridiculous. Why not Czechia, Slovakia, or Poland instead of Croatia, w/ the Philippines being substituted for Nam & Indonesia as the former’s population doesn’t (last I heard) hate us politically or religiously & large parts of their society’s patterned after ours making assimilation relatively easier unlike Communist Vietnam & Islamofascist Indonesia.

      Damn, fella, jeez.

      Cassandra (of Troy)

  8. My wife and I spent four months living in the Bahamas on our catamaran. It is a third-world country, expensive for anything you have to buy, plus a 45% duty added to anything you need from outside of the country. Few people on any of the cays we visited from Grand Harbor to Hopetown to Marsh Harbor and beyond had gardens, as the soil was too poor.

    Rich and poor dump their sewage directly into the bays and ocean (my dog got a raging skin infection from the water at a beautiful white sand beach on Man O’ War Cay). Needless to say (but I will anyway ;-), I didn’t swim except at deserted cays.

    I realize there are much better places to live outside of the US than the Bahamas, but nonetheless I’ll stick to rural WY or MT, thanks. The life I prefer to live is more easily accomplished here.

    Besides, most other countries will not knowingly allow you to own/possess firearms, with very nasty consequences if you are caught doing it anyway.