Tree, Noose, Bolshevik – Some Assembly Required

III_Noose
Sam and Team III offer one of the components here.

Nice touch:

13′ and 20′ tails also available for those who prefer a longer drop.

Too cool.

91 responses to “Tree, Noose, Bolshevik – Some Assembly Required

  1. Well, let’s be very clear on your definition of “Treason”, before anyone gets a hemp necklace. Who is Treasonous?

    Once you start to investigate this, it turns out that there isn’t too much purity out there. That’s how the French thing went down, anyway. No-one was safe. Even the leaders of the Revolution.

  2. “I don’t always agree with the guy, certainly didn’t vote for him. But I’ve got to defend him on this one,” Pittman says in the video. “I just don’t think it’s right at all to call Barack Obama a traitor. You know, there’s a lot of things he done wrong, but he is not a traitor. At least not as far as I can tell, because I’ve not come across any evidence yet that he has done one thing to harm Kenya.” Larry Pittman, R, NC More over on freenorthcarolina.blogspot.com

  3. Semper Fi, 0321

    I see the price is one that will appeal to the BMW crowd.
    Most of us can make one for free.

    • The price is so the remainder can be plowed back into other III projects – not a salary. 😉

    • I’m sure most of us can figure out that your not paying for the rope but an idea to further the goals of the Patriot community…Its better than just holding out your hand saying we need money…Bring them with to Idaho and you will have a couple less with a few more dollars for the |||…

  4. Buying a noose on the internet, so marked and from such a site, sounds like a great way to have one slipped around YOUR neck, PERSECically speaking.

    And I agree with Bob. We really don’t want to go all frenchrev.

    Those who resent any degree of government must deal with how we will visit justice and punishment, post war, on the surviving perpetrators and enablers of the regime coup without wholesale slaughter. That, by definition, would include many who are innocent or not deserving of death. The backlash this would cause will make the work of creating a just society all the more difficult, if not impossible, not to mention the immorality of it all.

    How do you administer even handed justice without courts and their attendant functionaries, i.e. some form resembling government?

    • Mr. Oughtsix….One is NOT getting even handed justice with the current FUSA justice system. 97% of all fedgov/stategov/localgov court cases are decided in favor of the ruling elites folks call “government”.

      BTW…if you believe coming to and remarking at WRSA hasn’t reserved a seat for you in a fedgov cattle car, I’ve a bridge for sale.

      • Dan,

        I’m not mentioning fedgov courts, I’m concerned with after, if there is an after.

        Jesse has spoken eloquently for me down below. But I’ll add this:

        You bloody, single minded lynch mob have not answered the issues raised by Bob, myself and Jesse except with accusations of infidelity to Liberty, squeamish cowardice and ignorance of the nature of the enemy. So far, I could easily assume that the nature of the enemy is indistinguishable from yours.

        Again, are you a lynch mob worse than fedgov, because utterly unrestrained by even rude attempt at trial, or can you describe how Real Justice will be administered in a manner so as to at least appear to be fair?

        Or you could ignore all the details and moral and procedural questions and just get back to calling me a sissy.

        • To have the kind of trial you are discussing, Freefor will have to seize and hold ground with sufficient security to be able to spare the bodies to comprise the courts and juries needed.

          Do you see that happening?

          How?

          • Look, let’s get this straight: What happens to regime tyrants and toadies during battle is all good. It’s what happens after that concerns me.

            If we do not hold any ground, what have we won? What’s the point? A Pyrrhic scorched earth?

            The alternative is locusts and salted earth. Just kill everyone who isn’t in your outfit, who doesn’t agree with you 100 and III%.

            No one knows how it will end, but we had better have a better plan than that or we will lose whatever support we might have had, and we’ll need every bit we can earn. Not everyone will fight, or be able to, and actual fighters will need ten each support folks at a bare minimum.

            A reign of terror will not have a good result. The compounding of unintended consequences off the chart…….

          • Sure! 3 militia guys (min) can hold “summary courts martial”, shouldn’t take more than 10 min. Even hear their appeal, no more than 3 min. Proceed to sentencing……

            • And for certain folks (e.g., rapists caught in flagrante delicto, even if FreeFor personnel), that may be fine.

              I am also not one of the dreamers who imagines that there will be much if any POW capacity.

              But one of the most interesting comments I have heard on this topic had to do with segregation and disposition by OPFOR rank.

              I hope that reader will oblige with an Anon post.

              Of course, Sam Culper will likely (and rightfully) shoot any of us if we whack some significant apparatchik w/o extracting what intel can be practically obtained by him. See generally this neglected novel: https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/a-new-novel/

              More complex than first meets eye. Pls keep that in mind.

  5. Hmm. Interesting how many people rabblerabblerabble about treason and tyrants and 2A remedies and “Lamp posts and rope” – right up until the moment someone starts to head in that direction.

    Interesting.

    K

    • In the name of PERSEC, as if everyone who comes to the FreeFor blogosphere isn’t already tagged to the 4th degree.

    • I won’t dispute the truth contained in that statement. However, I would offer a caveat. In a wartime situation, all bets are off the table. Those prosecuting it against me or mine will die or I will. With the price of ammo, rope is a good solution for the quislings. Warfare is one thing, playing merry Robespierre is quite another. While a great many in DC need to be chained and making big rocks into small rocks in west Texas, there’s only a select few I would label as treasonous and outright seditious at this point. Appointing oneself as judge, jury and executioner without the authority to do so sets a very dangerous precedent. It is a two-edged sword (as Robespierre found out) that virtually guarantees further violence. While the statists have no morals to give them pause about things such as condemnation merely by association, I would think we were made of sterner stuff. JMHO

    • Theoretical and academic grumpling is fine for them, but talk of practical application, “NO BUENO!”

  6. Mr. James87….regarding judges….just how would you appoint a judge in a SHTF situation ? My experiences with judges is that THEY would be the first ones to dance with a hemp necklace around their statist necks.

    Regarding traitors….those who supported the unconstitutional soetoro-obama in 2012 fit my definition perfectly.

    • I tend to agree with you about the judges, perhaps about Congress as well…as it would serve as a stern warning to future “statesmen” that it isn’t a game. I think in any sufficiently developed group of people there is always one person that acts as a natural arbitrator. Think about even in your family dynamic as a child. Whoever that natural leader/arbitrator is, he will eventually be forced into dispute resolution by the very people who are with him. I would hope that the accused would at least get an opportunity to explain before we play pin the necktie on the quisling. After all, it’s supreme irony to give someone NO legal recourse, when one of my chief complaints about the USSA is that there is no just legal recourse left for grievances.
      Don’t you think arguments/accusations will fly in SHTF? He stole my Hoppe’s #9, he banged my wife, he ate my last can of green beans, he traded me a broken compass for cammies and ripped me off…ect. If a group can’t deal with the sniveling and bitching and accusations in a fair manner, it WILL fall apart. Esprit de corp will be gone. So perhaps there won’t be anything resembling the bloated, unjust legal system now, but the necessity of dispute resolution will ALWAYS be there. What are drive-bys? Dispute resolution. Crimes of passion? Dispute resolution. Road rage? Dispute resolution. Either the HMFIC figures out how to do it or people will resolve the issue amongst themselves, many times violently. People sometimes forget that A/DR will be more necessary in SHTF than it is now. Cramped living conditions, few conveniences, limited supplies, all are a recipe for conflict…even among friends. No reason that same system cannot be co-opted for use in trying the quislings.

    • “Regarding traitors….those who supported the unconstitutional soetoro-obama in 2012 fit my definition perfectly.”

      Half the country? Silly college students? etc etc etc……..

      How many half to hang before you have satisfied your category?

    • to be a Judge one just needs to be logical and Fair( both basic logic and Constructive), No where does it need a LAW DEGREE.
      Any many can be a Judge , but he may not like it.

  7. Just an observation: I wonder why the sight of a noose leads so many to Robespierre in a reflex action – especially when the noose was presented without any such commentary. A noose is a classic bit of Americana and symbol of American Justice. Now, had I built and branded a guillotine, I could see the leap. But I’m curious (rhetorically, I really don’t care as a practical matter) why a bullet is a good remedy, and a rope is a bad/gone-too-far remedy. ( I know the answer, and it is not flattering. Killing with a firearm is ‘clean’ and rarely requires one to get all icky-kaka with wet hands and blood splatter – gross!!)

    Just another observation: The sight of a rope makes people weak-kneed – on an internet blog. Methinks I may have to re-examine my calculations of how many are seriously going to be on the Green for Liberty. I had hopes of 1%.

    I was obviously way, way wrong. Dan, Alan, CA, Millerized, Semper Fi. They seem to have their heads on straight and the stomach for ridding the republic of genuinely Bad People. If you are hand-wringing and making Robespierre arguments over the picture of a noose, perhaps your stomach is more suited to the Auxiliary, or kitchens. But again, this is all just rhetorical musing on my part. What do I know…

    Kerodin
    III

    • What concerns me more than the dick measuring “mirror mirror on the wall, whose the biggest patriot of them all” aspect of the noose, is your seeming inability to tell the difference between execution and killing in battle. A noose is NOT a symbol of justice. Maybe scales or Lady Justice, but not a noose isn’t any more than a firing squad, electric chair or lethal injection. Rightly used, it is a TOOL of justice, in the wrong hands it is a tool of oppression, hatred and barbarism. It plays a small part in the grand scheme, and it concerns me when people get overly fascinated with the killing part, and gloss over the “is he guilty” part. No, I think the hesitation on here is because a noose implies no imminent danger to your person. Ergo, the act of killing an individual with a noose is never in defense of property or life. It is proactive, offensive killing. I guess it’s un-American for me to ask for justification for that killing first. GW did have a history of hanging those who surrendered and ordered retribution on all those Loyalists after the war.
      Lastly, the ironic part is no one seems to grasp the cognitive dissonance in saying “I’m for freedom, ‘merica, and liberty,” but also saying “IIIIII’m the one who gets to say who dies or doesn’t.” Is that not the setting yourself up as a tin-pot dictator? Where does it end? How about hanging all the blacks. I mean 95%+ are dems. All the federal worker we find? State and local government employees? All the felons? All those damn Mexicans? We can’t be sure whose illegal or no…so let God sort ’em out. Hell, maybe I’ll hang all the people who are hanging other people. Haha, I’ll just make sure to wear an apron for all that “blood-spatter” that hanging is known to create.
      Nah, man I’m good. Methinks there’s quite a few out there who will become worse than the government they replaced if given the chance. I’m as concerned about the wannabe’s who are going to fix (rule) the shit out of their little AO as I am .gov. I’m good on the politically/racially motivated killings. Maybe that doesn’t make me a bad-ass, but I’m ok with that. I’ll settle for keeping my moral compass.

      • Some of us just don’t care.
        They had their chance to repent.
        I’ll say it one more time, it is too late to turn back.
        Nature will take care of many, lead will deal with the rest, and the survivors will get whats coming to them.

    • Semper Fi, 0321

      Thank you. I am in agreement with your statement.
      Even in these blogs, we see too much whining about giving folks another chance; vote them out, for the 5th time, etc…..I think we still see too much denial in peoples heads.
      Cleansing the .gov of traitors isn’t even an option, it’s the very first thing to be done, before this cancer spreads, again. And as I’ve stated over the yrs, these folks will put exactly the same communists right back in office, because they can’t stop voting Dem or Repub. It’s a mental disease that goes so far beyond stupid I can’t comprehend where these peoples heads are on a normal day.
      We know what treason is, now we have to listen to their excuses why they sold us out, and maybe let them go over extenuating circumstances? Let them live because we played it by ‘their’ rules?
      Rope is a good way to let the masses see what traitors deserve. Trying to sell the ground out from under my feet and deny me my basic human rights is a quick way to earn a piece of hemp.

    • K, that whole screed is so full of… er, mis characterizations, assumptions of facts not in evidence and avoidance of genuine issues that it would be laughable if not so deadly serious.

      Rather than a line by line fisking of your lurid and thoroughly polemical rantings, this should suffice:

      Just because we bring up the problems of administering Justice in an accountable manner, and with trying to create and inspire a just society afterward, does not make us “squeamish,” “weak kneed,”
      “pussified,” or cowardly, much less unwilling to try to win the fight in the first place. Oh, and blood splatter usually occurs when shooting, not hanging.

      “I was obviously way, way wrong.”

      Good of you to admit it, just this once.

      Those of you who salivate at the prospect of wholesale executions are as much worthy of suspicion as any regime henchman. If I dared to appear and object, you’d hang me too, just as you seek to assassinate my character right here. Think that’s an “unwarranted assumption” on my part? Look in the mirror of your own comments. It’s what you do, routinely.

      “What do I know…”

      Jack shit and fuck all, about me or jessejames, and most others who dare to challenge the Mighty K….

      • So what is your answer to Traitors & Treason…Is a rope too scary for you…That’s what the article is about by the way…It wasn’t about what defines traitors or treason…Its what to do with them…

      • You might want to add mighty Mullenax to that.

        I’m there. You should be too. Thought you were.

        Pity.

      • Oughtsix: You have been here long enough to know that if you read my actual words, versus what you want my words to say, we can have a serious discussion. You also know that gratuitous assertions can be, and will be, as equally gratuitously denied. So, unless you are actually going to cite my actual words and then discuss those words, you are not engaging in an intellectually honest conversation.

        Point: You are the second person on this thread to mention “frenchgov” in response to the image of a noose. How a noose leads you directly to French Revolution/Reign of Terror is beyond me. Afterall, using a noose is one of the official means of execution in this country, right now. So, what you are doing is simply assuming that since Kerodin pictured the noose, it must be about wholesale slaughter without means testing. That’s a pretty big assumption, and your starting point.

        Point: You accuse me of mis-characterizations and facts not in evidence – name one or accept that you are playing the gratuitous assertion game, again.

        Point: I never said “pussified”. Though I won’t distance myself from the general notion.

        Point: Blood spatter – was obviously a general statement not associated with lynching, as one usually doesn’t get wet with that method, either, except when the hanged lose their bladders and bowels. But let’s not pick nits.

        Point: My characterization of hand-wringing is properly applied. Those of you advocating counter-revolution on this thread seem to have a completely unrealistic view of how such an event will unfold if you think there is any flippin’ hope of courts and lawyers and jurisprudence beyond a group of guys on the front lawn of a Bankster proclaiming said Bankster innocent or guilty, then throwing a rope over a branch. It didn’t work that way in RevWarI, and it won’t work that way this time, or in ANY real war.

        Point: I am willing to have a serious discussion on this topic, but you will have to drop your pre-conceived notions about my positions and you will have to bring articulation of points, instead of generalizations.

        Short of that: Well, then I have to go with what I see in your words, which is hand-wringing about handling Enemies of Liberty.

        Kerodin
        III

  8. Anyone who is queasy about the thought of a noose for traitors should be on the “Can I really trust him?” list.

  9. I was minded to let this topic lie, but Kerodin’s response deserves an answer.

    So, I’ll answer with my original question and some others …

    “What do you define as treason?”

    What crime carries a death sentence?

    Who are the “Bad People” ? How will you know them, when you see them?

    By what authority do you take someone’s life … outside of self-defence?

    If you do take a life, outside of self-defence … isn’t that murder?

    If you stride about, deciding who lives and who dies, how long will it be before your own friends kill you, out of fear? After all, you’d be acting just like the very Statists whom you now oppose. I recall that Selco wrote of this sort of thing happening in the Balkans, during the last conflict.

    These questions deserve answers, because they have Strategic significance. The best way to win a conflict is to have your opponent refuse to fight … but, he won’t do that if he thinks a noose is his future.

    Now, if your noose is but one aspect of your strategy, with the other being the promise of clemency, then I can see that it has some merit.

    Sun Tzu had something to say about this topic. As did Henry V, at the gates of Harfleur.

    • Bob:

      All communists must go.

      Few convert truly.

      Labor Party in your land is a good start.

      Good hunting.

      • I don’t see it that way.

        I don’t care whether a man believes in communism or any other ‘ism. The only thing I want from him is that he respects my property rights.

        It only matters to me, when he intends to force his ideology upon me. Right then, when he resorts to force … that’s when it’s legitimate to kill him.

        Since every Statute and pronouncement from Westminster is, in effect, a threat to kill … I suppose that armed struggle is perfectly legitimate … but, there’s no taste for it, here. Very few people speak of freedom, in England. The PTB have played a blinder … people simply do not want to be freed of the yoke, so there’s no prospect of a struggle. When we see organised violence or protest, it’s always because the participants want MORE government, or else they are mere supplicants and petitioners.

        It’s a fact that the Labour Party is a bunch of Collectivists. And it’s a fact that all the other parties are Collectivists, too. Couldn’t slide a fag-paper between them on any important issue. They all mean to take my property by force; to dominate me.

        It’s all too depressing.

        • Show me a collectivist who isn’t willing to use any means necessary to take my property and my basic human rights, and I will buy you drinks til you spew, mate.

          They are bloody serious.

          Wish freefor was.

          • Amen CA Amen….They are deadly serious…They have shown us time and time again if you don’t bend knee you are going to die…Here we sit though arguing if its right or not to defend ourselves…If someone has told you that they are going to imprison you and/or kill you if you don’t submit why the fuck would you wait til they come do it…I can’t grasp that concept of which is espoused here so often by the comments posted here on this blog…This is why I don’t post very often because stupid makes me angry especially when if you just read and study history you wouldn’t make stupid comments…

            • Most North Americans have no idea what is waiting for them on the Bolshie agenda.

              Go ask Brock over at Free North Carolina what happened to his friends in the RVN after 4/1975.

              Ask SF0321 what happened to all of his family’s relatives and associates in Ost Preussen in ’45 and thereafter.

              Ask the Poles.

              The Balts.

              The Ukrainians.

              The Nicaraguans.

              The Cambodians.

              The Cubans.

              They are coming to effing take your stuff and kill your sorry asses, while you worry about the effing Marquess of Queensbury.

              Think I just wrote the quote of the day.

              Sat cong.

              Sat cong.

        • Bob, I’m not really sure we care what you think.

          You guys used to hang us guys, remember?

        • Bob – you write: “The only thing I want from him is that he respects my property rights”. That’s fair. But do you care if he respects your neighbors equal rights? Are you willing to hang the communist for making a move against your neighbor?

          K

          • “Are you willing to hang the communist for making a move against your neighbor?”
            ===================
            I am, if I have an agreement with my neighbor.
            Otherwise, he’s on his own.
            I expect the same in return.

        • you are too naive or one of them, If the Commies leave we won’t have to kill them, but they will be back.
          Better to dispose of them, than make enemies of them.

          Which is exactly what Ayers and his Comrades have in mind for U.S.

        • What communist EVER respected anyone’s property rights? They might have had to bide their time, and follow certain societal rules, but as is being shown now, their agenda will crush the individual, unless your in THEIR ruling class, where those rules don’t apply. BTW, big plus, ropes are reusable, and ammo is EXPENSIVE.

    • ““What do you define as treason?”
      I tell you to stop fucking with me and the inherent
      rights I am born with as a free individual.
      You refuse to stop fucking with me, about everything,
      constantly; regardless of the fact that I am not harming
      or infringing on the Freedom and Rights of others.
      I fucking kill you or you kill me, rat, scumbag, enemy, TRAITOR.

      • Define *fucking with me*.

        You are more gentlemanly than I.

        If they aggressively come on my property I owe them no explanation for the hail of shrapnel coming their way.

        I am not obligated to advertise my property but they are obligated to recognize what is not theirs.

      • Semper Fi, 0321

        this is exactly what I see with the liberals in this country. They are control freaks, who just CANNOT stop fucking with people. It’s a game of death from a thousand cuts. Not a day goes by that they don’t want to pass another 100 laws that infringe on another persons right to go about his own business ‘freely’. Buying raw milk, selling vegetables from their own garden, buying and selling anything that doesn’t involve them, taxing and selling permits to breathe and fart freely, etc.
        I am also at that point where I feel it’s just a simple matter of ‘stop fucking with me’ and now another person has to ask, “define fucking with me?” Let’s stop splitting hairs and get on with the mission, it’s way more important to get this thing going, and follow thru with it. Accomplish the mission, then haggle over the details later.

  10. I don’t know why people can’t understand that powers that be want a genocide of all patriots…If we can’t get that thru our skulls then we will be dead before the fight even starts…I think the frogs have become comfortable in the pot even though its stripping the flesh from them…Its to scary to jump out they might see me and cook me up for dinner…Lets just stay in here awhile longer its not too bad yet only a few of us has died so far…Maybe if we swim down to the bottom they get to us til last…For Gods Sake Kerodin put that thing away they might see you and then they might turn the heat up even more…Just lie back we will know when its time for now just lay here and hope the powers don’t want frog legs tonight..Make me fuking sick what pussies men have become…

  11. Bill Ford III

    Maybe I am looking at this with the mentality of a “simpleminded” person. However It would seem to me that ANY and ALL who participated, and continue those actions, (which includes actual support) in “the fundamental transformation of America” would deserve the designation of “traitor”, along with the payment of swinging from a tree/lamp post on the end of a noose.

    Yes, I know and understand the unconstitutional behavior began a very long time ago, but we can’t hang those already taking a dirt nap. We can only administer justice on the living.

    I actually tell the leftists/communists that I have conservations with that they will either exile themselves or they will face the consequences, when this all ends, their choice. I guess maybe I am being to honest with them.

    As CA has stated, there is gonna be a fight, lets win. I will add we can sort all of this out after the victory.

  12. Bob & JesseJames: We’ve had the “Moral High Ground” and “Who is a combatant and who isn’t” and “What is Treason” discussions here at WRSA and elsewhere ad nauseum, so I won’t bother trying to articulate my position here again. But here’s a quick thumbnail of my position: If you advocate or execute or facilitate the infringement of another person’s Natural Rightful Liberty, you need to stop, you need to leave, or you need to die.

    That said, specifically to JesseJames, yes, a noose most assuredly is a symbol and tool of self defense. Using it protects me from further predatory behavior by the transgressor. There are many bi-pedal animals who mean to do injury, and you need not catch them swinging a brick at your head before you are justified in defending yourself. The noose also carries with it the ritualized symbolism of being a tool of Justice at a societal level. If X does a bad thing and fellow citizens agree, then X swings from the rope as a defensive measure to ensure he never hurts anyone else again.

    As to execution versus killing in battle – it is all battle. The battle never ends, from your birth until you become worm food. Sometimes the battle is hot, sometimes cold. But the threat never, ever goes away.

    Kerodin
    III

    • As to execution versus killing in battle – it is all battle. The battle never ends, from your birth until you become worm food. Sometimes the battle is hot, sometimes cold. But the threat never, ever goes away.
      Kerodin

      What an inspirational philosophy and encouragement for the coming fight! I can’t wait for the future where the killing never ends!

    • jessejames87

      I agree with some of what you’re saying. Threats to life or liberty can warrant preemtive action. The problem I have with this line of thinking, is it makes one the SAME as the communists. A revolution, proceeded by a bloody purge of those of conflicting ideals. I mean, do you not see the parallels? How does one prove his patriotism? Go by the voting records, that none of us has access too? Make a speech? What does that decision making process look like? I’m serious, I’m asking you. Again, does this mean EVERY government employee? Are you willing to execute the innocent, the ensure all the guilty hang? I’m not being an asshole here, these are real questions worth considering.
      I find when I look at history, two examples occurred here in the US. After the War for Independence, there were undoubtedly loyalists to the crown that still existed. Washington knew this. Rather than start a political purge, he attempted to unify the country once again. We don’t read of a serious counter-revolt in the coming years because all the loyalists (statists) weren’t ferretted out and executed. The opposite approach was taken during the Civil War. The radical Republicans in Congress at the time wanted much harsher penalties, but even just the limited disenfranchisement, military occupation, prohibiting of claiming a homestead and other sanctions that Johnson enacted led to deep resentment by Southerners. Resentment still felt to this day, which I and others on here can vouch for. Had the radical Republicans had their wish, I do not doubt that guerilla warfare would have begun in earnest.
      I just cannot make that causal leap from removing the traitors in power to purging 50%+ of the populace. It goes against every ideal the Declaration and Constitution espouse. This country was founded on the belief that a man was free to do and think what he pleased, so long as it didn’t infringe on others. The ability to be the lone dissenting voice without risking hanging or violence is the essence of the 1st Amendment. I very much believe in that, because you, me, everyone on here is the dissenting voice at this time. Free for thee, free for me. While ridding the US of statists makes for great platitudes, the reality of the matter is something else entirely. Casting a vote, as poor a choice as most made, does not give one the moral authority to execute the voters. The individual who perpetrated the treason…yes. Reasonable minds can differ, and I respect your position…though I disagree with it. We’ll both be shooting in the same direction, and frankly, at this point it’s enough for me.

      • Jesse: As much as I hate adding links to another man’s site, this is the easiest and most complete way for me to answer your questions. I hope CA forgives the out-link.

        http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2013/09/300-yard-self-defense.html

        That explains my self defense philosophy. Read it to the end and you’ll find the answers you seek regarding my position on shades of grey.

        K

        • Appreciate the link, I felt it outlined your position decently well. I honestly thought we weren’t going to be able to act like adults after the initial comments, but I respect someone who will address issues and not resort to name calling.
          I guess the core issue here is the mens rea aspect. Being somewhat familiar with your adventures courtesy of .gov (no offense intended), I know you’re very familiar with the concept. It can make all the difference in the world at times. The practical aspect of knowing if someone means you harm, aside from obvious examples, at 300 or even 100 yards is what gives me pause. A wartime situation, or “stack” is the easy stuff. What of the uneducated or misinformed? Not extenuating circumstances, but sheer ignorance? We were all clueless at one point. I doubt very seriously at 18 any of us had formed a mature political or societal framework of thought. We could certainly vote though.
          While the judicial system merely plays lip service, I take the concept of innocent until proven guilty fairly seriously. Assuming something resembling a government is formed, or even a collection of states, city-states or allied territories emerge there needs to be a manner in which to redress grievances.
          You stated yourself ” Despite the problems we have in society today, our Founders created the finest system of governance the world has yet seen, and it is up to we Citizens to use it, protect it, and ensure it survives. Ultimately, our system is one of the people. We the people. Right and Wrong matter. If we surrender, if we give up on the system, it must fail.”
          So at the end of the day, should we not at least attempt to use the system you lauded? Again, wartime is one thing. What you were articulated in your linked article sets you up as judge, jury and executioner. At least the current system requires a reasonable person standard. The only standard by which you propose to judge guilt is your subjective opinion on whether I was a threat or not. Could you not be wrong in your assessment of the situation? What if the man running toward you with a gun is running for his life and looking for aid? The possibilities for abuse and mistake are endless here, because you, like me are a fallible human being.
          It goes back to that mens rea. In a perfect world our SA is infinite. It’s not. I’m not willing to kill someone in a non-wartime situation on the basis of anything that starts with “I think…” That might be one aspect, but the belief should be couched in reason. Reason requires evidence of some kind. Your position comes dangerously close to thought-crime. One cannot know what another is thinking without extraneous evidence.
          Applying reducto ad absurdum, that standard makes everyone your enemy. We all indirectly support the PRC, Iran, Saudi Arabia et. al.; all enemies of the US. We also support the Federal Reserve, current regime, lend our money and guns to terrorists, and pay people to unjustly prosecute fellow citizens. We are all traitors. Food for thought.

          CA & Others: Sorry for the wordy responses. Hopefully it’s as mildly instructive/entertaining for others as it has been for me. Good discussion all the way around.

      • I just want to say we won’t have to kill 50%…Think about it once we show there is consequences to bad behavior to a few don’t you think the rest will see the light and either leave or change to believe in RightfulLiberty…There are many examples out there that show this to be true so why do you not think it would work in this situation…

  13. Everybody needs to watch 300 when the messenger comes with the message of all you have to do is submit…Was that not a justified killing…If you don’t think so I sure as hell don’t want you anywhere near my foxhole…You fools that think your going to wait til the stack is at your door before defending yourself are dead wood to the Patriot community…I would rather have my 12 year old fighting beside me than you cowards….

    • Leonidas warned the man. Paraphrase: “Be warned, Persian – every man is responsible for the words that come out of his mouth in Sparta, even a King’s messenger”. Leonidas exercised what I consider to be a moral imperative – he warned the man. The man chose not to heed the warning. He got what he deserved.

      K

  14. “If you advocate or execute or facilitate the infringement of another person’s Natural Rightful Liberty, you need to stop, you need to leave, or you need to die.”

    That does make sense. You sound like an anarchist.

    Would you agree that everyone who casts a vote, falls squarely into the bracket of “advocates the infringement…” ‘cos every vote is a plea to seize/infringe upon someone else’s property?

    Would you agree that support for a standing army necessitates the infringement of others’ Rightful Liberty … in that the army lives on the proceeds of taxation?

    • You say “anarchist” like it’s a bad word….
      🙂

      Show me where I agreed that you get to vote about my stuff.

      Show me my signature on that agreement.

      H/t to Billy Beck for getting through my chunderhead with that concept.

      • Nooooooo …. I AM an anarchist.

        At least, I aspire to be one.

        Full agreement re the fantasy that is the Social Contract. That’s another thing the Frenchies gave us, I think … Syphilis and Rousseau.

        • Cheers, mate.

          Ahh, la belle France…wonderful food and drink. Lousy politics; égalité, my ass.

          But Syphilis et Rousseau would be a wonderful vin rouge label, n’est-ce pas?

      • Anarchy isn’t bad. It’s just not possible when men are left alone to themselves.

        Ultimately, there will be anarchy. But not until the Second Coming though. And not a second before.

        • And as we have discussed, there are tweaks (i.e, the execution clause, required affirmation of civic responsibilities at majority, etc.) that can fix a bunch of the egregious wrongs now.

          But what I am trying to teach the young people around me now is this:

          1) Bad shit is coming

          2) I won’t make it through

          3) Some of you won’t either

          4) Some of you will

          5) Once the Game is on, everything in front of your muzzle is a presumptive target; General Mattis was right about having a plan for everyone you meet

          6) Once you fuggers have won, keep a cold, hard eye on any asshole who says he or she wants to be boss

          7) Have a good, several-tiered plan to kill any such SOB and his friends once he or she gets porky

          8) Execute upon first porkiness

          9) Lather, rinse, repeat

          10) Notwithstanding all of the death, murder, and heartache which will sear each winner’s soul, try to be kind to folks if possible; the Man had that one right, even though He was an optimist

          That’s pretty close to operational anarchy. The “government” thing is largely for boobs who like to herd or be herded.

          That ain’t you, Boss.
          🙂

      • He slapped my upside the head a couple times in usenet back in the 90’s.
        I haven’t been the same since.

    • Bob: I’ll push down the insult of being intimated an Anarchist. 😉 I am teasing, but only a bit. I put anarchists with secessionists – I believe both philosophies have legitimacy, but I believe both are absolutely unrealistic in the world of Man, until the very Nature of Man evolves. Now, if we kill evbery single man and woman on the planet who believes they have the right to infringe the Rightful Liberty of other people, I’ll get in line for Anarchy.

      But that won’t be happening in my lifetime. And, even if we did it today, purged every Bad Person from the planet, it’ll take just months before another little tyrant pops out of a womb and starts the cycle all over.

      K

      • another little tyrant pops out of a womb and starts the cycle all over.
        ========
        That’s why freedom requires being ever vigilant.

  15. Prepping Preacher

    having read the post in question and the badminton played in the remarks, I have but one phrase to offer: Nuremberg Trials. Personally, I’m not terribly concerned if it’s the hangman’s rope, firing squad or Ol’ Sparky from Raeford, Florida. Evil should and must be purged and wrongs righted. Thereby is the land cleansed. The actions of men display their heart’s intentions. “Extenuating circumstances” – like what…??? When you vote to allow a law-breaker more benefits than are allowed a destitute law-abider, you are a criminal guilty of aiding and abetting an enemy. You lose any claim to extenuating circumstances in your actions. Yes, I’m referencing the illegal immigrant issue. And there are dozens if not hundreds more to example. How many slights, how long must the list of infringements grow before it is believed that evil men intend to be our masters and that the coming conflict is designed by those same evil men to either bring us to our knees or have us dead? Their side has dropped civility entirely – push around then detain aged vets, illegally detain foreign nationals here vacationing and sight-seeing. We have a nation overflowing with people desensitized to evil as well as ignorant(or afraid) of the correct and needful means of handling it. We’re NOT discussing anarchy nor anything close but rather the righting of a well-founded situation turned on it’s head.

    I’ve likely said too much already and I’m given to rambling. Know this: I’ll lose no sleep over the orderly, systematic review and subsequent handling of each traitor to this Nation. And should you really need to have “traitor” defined, perhaps you should check your own position in this “Patriot” world. I seek no one’s blood, head nor any conflict. I do however seek to be left alone in peace to pursue my personal interests as well as for my children and grandchildren. Since they are intent on that NOT being so, then they have set the stage for response. The image of a hangman’s noose should be the least of any issues to be squabbled over here.

  16. Turner Ashby

    Who gets the noose and where do we start? Here’s a suggestion. Every week Youtube gets another video of a cop murdering someone in cold blood. Instead of the cop being fired, arrested and tried, they’re usually exonerated by TPTB so that they may continue murdering at the behest of the state. Youtube is the greatest intelligence apparatus we have so when TSHTF we can make a list and indentify every officer who murdered an American while acting as a ward of the state. They can systematically be hunted down and hung for their treason against Citizens of the Republic.

    • But….but….officer safety!

    • when my next door neighbor Died I had one cop admit to me that he had no need to practice marksmanship. he said I quote ” I have no need to practice, if I kill you I am Covered, IE exempt.

      I would rather spend time with my Family. he said I quote verbatim.
      that told me more than I ever needed to hear.
      He would rather Kill me and any other bystanders because his life and time are worth more than mine and yours.

      All the recently Killed WW II vets lead the way.

      The Homes I guard the gate for most fail to see the Signs and most of them are all good guys , we are the bad guys.
      The criminal Justice textbooks these folks read quote Marx here in NY and add in Social Justice.

      What more do we need?

      As far as I am concerned they have less right to a Weapon than someone who has served his time and paid his dues.

  17. Bloodyspartan has said what has so far been only intimated … “you are too naive or one of them”.

    If I was sitting in Langley, wondering how to sow division, I couldn’t come up with a better strategy.

    I’d make some comments about purging the population of undesirables … then I’d label any dissenters as traitors.

    You can see how divisive this is.

    Makes me wonder about who is really spreading FUD.

    It’s not only divisive, it is bad strategy. You cannot win any battles without you have a critical mass of the populace on your side. You simply cannot prevail. So, how do you propose to gather that critical mass, if all you can promise them is injustice?

    • A point well-taken.

      But let me ask you this: can individual freedom ever be restored to the UK, given the bulk of drones who support Orwellian-surveillance-statism there today (and who, in candor, are content to live as “subjects” of both a single human being, along with her EU allies in Brussels)?

      You see the problem, right?

      If individual freedom is to be restored in North America, there will be a HUGE number of sad pandas that will need to either recant fully or to go. By their individual philosophical choices (e.g., “It’s OK to take someone else’s property so long as you do it via proxy and it’s for a good cause”) and actions in support thereof, they have rendered themselves inimical to freedom.

      So what is to be done?

      Not discussing that hard reality is delusional.

      • See, first it was kill ’em all, now we’ve moved the goal post to “recant or die” (Spain circa 1478 or Iran circa…2013). Which is it? Previous comments intimated those needing to be hanged were 1) the entire federal workforce 2) the entire Democrat voting bloc, 3) most of the Republican voting bloc 4) anyone who wouldn’t participate actively in the genocide (because obviously if you’re not one of “us,” your one of “them”). First it was everyone dies, you had your chance. Now lineman and you have backed up to the recant or die position. Honestly? That’s just silly. You’re a much sharper guy than that. Tell me people won’t say anything to save their neck. To make sure they truly recanted, we’d probably need to establish a Patriot Surveillance Agency to assure that none of the converts were planning an insurgency. You know, to ensure freedom and liberty for all…’merica! Down the rabbit hole we go.
        Once you cross that line into thought-crime, there is nothing but shades of grey afterwards. That’s what I keep trying to say. The only two fixed points in that quicksand are to allow people to espouse whatever the hell beliefs they want, or ruthlessly depopulate the country on a scale that would make the Communists look like amateurs. All or nothing. I cannot believe people are not seeing the hypocrisy here. Overt sedition…kill all of them. People who have done nothing but believe in a lie? You have become what you claim to hate when you begin killing them. You aren’t defending yourself when you kill someone for merely believing in an ideal. You are the ultimate authoritarian/statist. You have declared that person’s soul, their very BEING as your property to do with as you please…to destroy should you see fit. You have set yourself up as the authority to regulate their very thoughts and beliefs. Even then it wouldn’t work. No one ever really agrees on anything. Funny, I remember reading about someone else who wanted the US to shrink by about 300M people or so…maybe it is all just a giant cosmic one-liner.

        • JJ:

          Longer response later. Lost a long comment to your prior last and now am on handheld.

          Short preview:

          -all victors purge. All.
          -a nation of laws requires a polity that submits to and respects same; FUSA is no longer such a nation
          -since there’s gonna be a scrum, let’s make sure WE win
          – post-victory, there will be a purge based on gathered pre and post war intel and captured records
          – due process = notice + opportunity to be heard
          – all suspects in the postwar environment will be afforded due process and assigned counsel; you can lead the defense team if you survive
          -four sentences: death, exile, rehab, prison
          – acquittal always possible
          -sentence decision will be based ln level of culpability and seriousness of offense
          – expedited single appeal in all cases
          – sentence must be executed NLT 30 days post appellate decision

          More later. Thumbs shot.

        • One other thing JJ: the formula is mens rea + actus rea.

          show me a bolshie who hasnt acted to implement his/her scheme in some way, and that person walks

          It’s why the Fed rule on conspiracy is so evil

          Give that same bolshie an overt act in furtherance of his/her bullshit, and in the post victory shakeout, they have exposure.

          this is a sharp crew here, and lets all try to discuss important topics in an intelligent way

        • Show me where I backed up from anything….I read all my comments never said kill everyone…Im beginning to think you don’t know how to read…To bad we can’t have this forum in person because half the stupid shit wouldn’t get said…K puts a noose up and you guys get your panties in a wad thinking we are bloodthirsty barbarians and won’t use common sense and the constitution to judge our enemies…I have read many articles on K wanting to return to the constitution so why would you think we wouldn’t want to follow that…Why don’t you do me the favor and go back and read all I’ve posted before you reply…Thanks…Bring facts to the table and I will happily discuss them with you…Bring emotion and assumptions and forget it…

        • Jesse, thank you for each of your comments here. You have said thoroughly and eloquently what I haven’t the patience for any longer.

          Perhaps you’ve even made some folks pause and consider about where they think they’d like to go with this…..

        • jessejames87

          Pardon my snark, I was frustrated and came off as more of an asshole than I intended. Two things:
          1) I have no problem with what you said below. The issue I had before was with K and others want to back that up to merely mens rea without the actus. I don’t do thought-crime.
          2) In the vein of Bog’s comment below, I think we are lumping far to many people in with the real statists. How many have been brainwashed since kindergarten? Most will wake up during the ugliness that have a mind to, but let’s try not to throw the baby out with the bath water. The geopolitical ramifications of doing so would be disastrous.

          Oh, I’m working on a title I can use in the future. Haha, I was thinking Defender of Intentional Communist Kleptocrats.

          Look forward to your position being explained more fully. Been there done that on losing comments, very frustrating.

          • JJ: I wholly believe in Means rea and actus rea. Where we may differ is this: They guy who votes for the politician who promises to infringe my rights, has satisfied actus rea. He has acted, he has chosen to empower a 3rd party proxy to come for me. He gets the noose.

            K

      • “So what is to be done?”
        ===================

        You answered yourself here:
        “….recant fully or to go.”
        ================

        I choose: to go. No recantation. Their brains are flawed, there is no fixing that. They will stick it in your ass first chance they get. Be off with ye!

      • Honestly I have no idea, but if we never try we will never Know and to quote a far smarter individual, I doubt it will ever pass this way again.

        Plus are the Dead really Free?

        May the Almighty Guard us and Gird us in his love and armor.

        Lord Knows we need it.

  18. “But let me ask you this: can individual freedom ever be restored to the UK, given the bulk of drones who support Orwellian-surveillance-statism there today (and who, in candor, are content to live as “subjects” of both a single human being, along with her EU allies in Brussels)?”

    I honestly do not know. But, I do have hope; drawn from my own experience.

    Just 8 or 9 years ago, I was just like any other voting drone. Pretty much. These big ideas, like self-ownership and the RKBA and property rights, had never done more than glance off my consciousness. So, until I was about 47 years of age, it never crossed my mind to question the legitimacy of government.

    Well, if I’m of average intelligence, then half the population is smarter than me. And if I can see Reason, then so can they. As to the rest, well, time will make converts of them.

    I reckon that, once people are exposed to these ideas of freedom, they become infected by them and there is no known cure. That’s why these blogs and the internet are so important.

    Once you’ve made a man your convert, intellectually, then you don’t have to fight him. It’s the same strategy that the State uses against us.

    On the subject of surveillance. I recently went to a sale at a village hall (Tickton) and there was a middle-aged woman at the door … I think that she was the custodian of the keys. Above the door, on a mast, were about 5 surveillance cameras, pointing in various directions. Even I was surprised … ‘cos Tickton village is very tiny and peaceful. I said to this woman, “Christ, that’s a lot of cameras … it’s just like East Germany.” And the look that she gave me was just so incredibly hollow. I was hoping to spark a connection … that she might indicate her disquiet. Nothing.

    And, in my own village of North Newbald, I was flying a radio-controlled quadcopter on the football field. This quadcopter had a video camera on board, with a real-time downlink to a monitor. Round the edges of the playing field, there are people’s homes. This old girl wandered by and asked what I was doing, so I showed her how the machine was making video recordings. Her face fell and she got a bit aggressive … “Oh, does that mean you can see into my garden?” I must have had my quick-thinking hat on, because I said to her, “Well, yes, but I’m actually developing this surveillance system for the Humberside Police.” That was all it took to defuse the situation. She said to me, “Oh, well that’s alright then.” and she was all smiles again.

    Honestly, we are livestock.

    • BB: Get your ass out of there. You don’t want to come to the States, then at least get to effing Canada. Had to enter a major government building in Ottawa this summer and here’s the security procedure:

      1) Leave a piece of official ID with the polite chap at the greeting (not searching/irradiating) station in the lobby

      2) Be escorted to and from the office by your Canadian government contact

      3) Retrieve your ID from the gent at the lobby station on your way out

      Customs was just as proper, even when I responded to the officer’s Francophone inquiry about the purpose of my visit en Anglais.

      The UK is totally buggered.

      Get.

      Out.

      Yesterday.

  19. Wouldn’t a good place to start be anyone who ever sought and was granted any office- ANY OFFICE- requiring that person to take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and then subsequently violated that oath?
    Play stupid games win stupid prizes…
    And wouldn’t another fine place to start be those unelected in the Leviathan’s bureaucracy who are unelected yet just as guilty? Fool yourself if you must but don’t try to piss up my leg by telling me THEY don’t know what they’re doing.
    Play stupid games….win. stupid. prizes.
    If someone is too sensitive to countenance the deadly serious and earnest nature of the struggle we face perhaps they should resolve to simply be part of the auxillary. Just like stopping a rapist requires more than just saying ‘NO!”, the only way to END THE THREAT of a predator is to eliminate the predator. ” Go and sin no more” isn’t going to cut it as a solution to these monsters.
    This is absolutely dead serious shit and ”THEY” know it…you can tell because they’re playing to WIN. “They” know they’re destroying the founding principles of our nation. By their words and deeds alone they convict themselves.
    I’m not soliciting or condoning violence, but if the balloon ever goes up, and the right side wins then consequences MUST fall on those who brought our nation to this point, and those people aren’t the ‘Patriots’, rather those who have subverted our nation. If you want a totalitarian country move to one. Anyone actively atempting to make THIS country into one has forfeited any claim on the social contract.
    The aggressor sets the tempo, and the loser is often the one who fails to adapt to the rules set by the aggressor.
    Random gullible sheeple perhaps deserve a reprieve but all state organs and enablers know what they’re doing.
    The standards for treason are plain. As are the consequences when found guilty. It shouldn’t be too hard to discern who did what…after that the penalty is obvious.
    “I was just following orders” isn’t a defense.

  20. The rope is merely a symbol. Anyone close enough to me that deserves the rope gets a bullet long before the rope is employed.

  21. Pingback: When you can’t get close enough to hang them… | Battlefield USA

  22. Live. Let live. Protect your life. Work with others to protect that which you value.

    Everything else is a distraction, including figuring out who deserves to die at your hands in the absence of a direct threat. In a way, it’s a form of suicide and at the very least, it’s letting the collectivists set the philosophical battlefield.

    They WANT us to die; don’t save them the trouble of at least doing the work. They’re lazy fucks, after all; that’s why they like this so much.

    Some other time we can discuss the Fallacy of Tu Quoque. I’ll offer this much of a clue, though…that’s what started this whole statism mess more than 5,000 years ago. If it weren’t, then thugs and wars would be gone by now; instead they’ve redoubled time and time again.

    If your own life isn’t full enough to enjoy and protect, then you’ve made some mistake. America is about YOUR life having value, not about others lacking it.

    Live. Let live. Protect your life. Work with others to protect that which you value.

  23. The joys of masturbation. Until you shoot, hang or throw acid on the first one, I wouldn’t worry about what to do with the next 50,000. It might just balkanize, and go the way of India and Pakistan

    CA nailed it, “Wish freefor was [serious]”

    –hollywood