Using The Myth Of The Constitution

Stock Photo of the Consitution of the United States and Feather Quill
Historian opines:

Part I

Part II

My editorial?

This stuff matters.

But only AFTER we Americans beat the ever-loving dogshit out of a whole bunch of Communists, both in and out of uniform.

Because if they win, think Mao’s consolidation of power.

With 30 million or more freedom-loving men, women, and children murdered for being on the wrong side of an ideological divide.

With the Communists expunged, we can build a new covenant for North America.

Not until then.

Sát cộng.

sat cong

71 responses to “Using The Myth Of The Constitution

  1. Semper Fi, 0321

    You really do like opening a can of worms, don’t you?
    Nevertheless, it’s an adventure into education. Thank you.

  2. With the Communists expunged, we can build a new covenant for North America.

    This.

    Regardless of what you or I or Boston T. or Lysander Spooner or Nancy Pelosi thinks, all of it is a mental exercise unless there’s a victory. I do have an opinion on the issue, but mainly my opinion is that “we” need to win, and “they” need to lose.

    • Semper Fi, 0321

      First and foremost, yes.
      Right now, default thru apathy is winning the war for them, they have more idiot voters turning out than we do. Voter worship is a mental disease which we cannot overcome, a more serious step will have to occur next. Anger usually brings it on.

  3. What do you think will be the general response, when activist groups realize the reality of what you just opined? If I had a guess, I think ‘realization’ is just around the corner…and is coming from all directions.

  4. I’ve appreciated and enjoyed everything I’ve read there. These are outstanding. Food for thought. Thanks for pointing to these articles.

    Indeed, we can’t do a thing about it till “after,” but we should be thinking about these matters now.

  5. There’s a difference. Mao’s thirty million victims weren’t armed, didn’t have a tradition of liberty, and didn’t have a tradition of the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. We do. And BTW, the biggest advantage we have in the coming fight is that the commies pulling this crap don’t understand that fact.

    • From your lips to God’s ears….

      But have you talked to those gun owners?

      Please do. It will inform your sitrep.

    • If you think all those gun owners are on your side, think again. Most of them can’t even spell liberty.

    • Semper Fi, 0321

      The average gunowner likes to goosestep to the NRA/party line, nothing more. Every time I bring up taking our rights back, I get looks of shock and indignation from these rural cowboy/outfitter types here, been called an anarchist more than a few times. They really don’t want to fukn hear it. Just send the NRA more money, they’ll deal with it.

      That’s who you want to count on for backup? Not me.

    • Sure, sure. And I have family/friends that get a lot of whats going on, mostly. They get what a load of baloney the Zimmerman trial is/was and what all the “Creepy cracker” stuff means, mostly. They know how crazy the PC stuff is getting, how bad obamacare is. Yet those same family and friends still offer statements like “all those idiots going out and buying guns like crazy” or “well I know a guy who is a great cop, a great guy, and you’d never know he’s a cop when out of uniform”, “what do you need a 30 round glock mag for?”

      I dunno cousin, why do you need a $20k motorcycle that you ride once a month, six months a year?

  6. Josh A. Kruschke

    The Constitution was the first step on the road to where we are today.

    True liberty there is no guaranty of safety. Madison used the promise of just a little bet of Central Control we can manage/guaranty peace between the states.

    Liberty took a hit & step backwards with the implimentation of the US Constitution and our death nail was struck in 1791 when Hamilton covensed Washington that the Constitution had implied powers, all so he could start a central bank.
    If only Aaron Burr had shot Hamilton sooner.

    Sigh….

    Fucking Madison & The Virginia Plan!

  7. added the Chang-Halliday book on Mao to my wish list at Amazon. Looks like an excellent read. That “25 million” massacre # that Ayers/Dohrn reportedly mentioned sounds like disinformatsiya to me. Just looking at the widening political, economic, and cultural sinkholes in this country, I’d say EITHER SIDE will wind up killing a round 100 million or so. I’m game.

  8. Right now this is almost exclusively a war of ideas, and the Bad People are winning. BY DEFAULT, because for the most part we don’t even show up on the field. Objectively, by every rational standard, the ideas of the Enlightenment are better ideas, and create a better society to live in. We in the West are still living the life that the Enlightenment created, but few people understand that once the philosophy of freedom is destroyed, so too will the fruits of those ideas be destroyed. ( the recent Obamacare fraudulent fiasco may be opening a few eyes, however!)

    The reason that FreeFor is losing the war of ideas is because relatively few of us have the intellectual ammunition to fight collectivism. If we win the war of ideas, then we can win whatever else comes along. Understanding why all this is happening is the key to hardening your heart, the motivator to get ready, the reason to spend time and sweat and blood and effort to prepare to win. And to fight, should that become needful.

    We need to understand the principles that underpin Liberty, and hold to them firmly, through thick and thin. I post these articles not for Pete(here) or Mike(Cold Fury) or Matt B or Kevin(Smallest Minority) or L. Neil(TLE) or Mama L or Tam or Brigid or any of the others in the host of bloggers out there who do understand the principles and ideas of liberty, but for the many people who sense that there is something badly wrong with the world today, but who have been denied the tools and training to understand what is wrong and why it went wrong.

    Books have been written about many things I touch on in one or two sentences; I cannot cover the material in enough depth to truly elicit understanding, but I can point out some basic principles and point folks in the right direction to learn more. On my good days, I provide some intellectual yeast to help understanding rise a bit, no more than that. And no less.

    But yeast does not make bread, and bread alone does not win wars. There is little doubt that more will be required to restore Liberty. Understanding the ideas that underpin Liberty, however, is essential, if not sufficient.

    • With respect, sir, I believe the reason that the collectivist enemy is winning is because:

      A) it is willing to kill, maim, bankrupt, and imprison individuals in pursuit of its objectives, and

      B) FreeFor has not been willing to do so to date.

      “Free shit for you if you support me” will always triumph over “No restrictions, but no subsidies either; make of your life what you will” for the Idiocracy crowd, which is growing both by home-grown birth-rate differentials between Team Freedom and Team Slavery, but also the unlimited importation of additional high-birth-rate supporters of Team Slavery (a/k/a “FUSA slavery is MUCH better than slavery back home”).

      Bless you for your optimism, but I don’t think Team Freedom’s message can EVER be made palatable to the dependent class. Please convince me that I am wrong.

      • CA, with regard to both A and B, the facts that you state are correct, but there is an awkward question that needs to be asked, and that is WHY? Why are tyrants willing to kill us? Why are we not willing to fight back? I submit to you that the reason is that the reason is the ideas in play, and the fact that the thugs do not view themselves as such, and NEITHER DO THE BULK OF THE PEOPLE. That, sir, is the result of the abandonment of the world of ideas to tyranny.

        As regards the FSA, bread and circuses only work as long as the bread lasts and the circuses continue, and those who depend on them will either learn a work ethic or die, once the bread stops, and the FedGov can no longer afford the circuses. And that day is inevitably approaching. Sure as the law of gravity, we will eventually default on the debt, either overtly or covertly, and on that day the EBT cards will be worthless. And woe betide those dependent upon them. “As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn, the Gods of the Copybook headings with Terror and Slaughter return!”

        I do not know what these presently united States will look like after that, but there won’t be any more ‘free’ stuff. Not in anybody’s mind. Every living being will understand to the core of their marrow just how expensive the basics of life can be, and if we are lucky, there will be enough FreeFor left alive “limp up and explain it once more” to the rest of the survivors. That is *my* goal, to help shape the aftermath, to remind people of the fruits of millenia of human history.

        Humanity has been through these kinds of events time after time, and each time after the first, it is because those involved failed to think things through, failed to ask the awkward questions, failed to stand by their principles, and failed to learn from their mistakes and ensure that all future generations understood what happened and why. And each time, because that was not done, we reap the deadly harvest of our failure.

        I’d like to stop that cycle, but for now, we need to focus on winning the war of ideas among those who matter, the productive middle class. It is those people who can make the difference, who will either aid in rebuilding a prosperous and free nation, or who will be consumed in a groundswell of tribalist savagery.

        Whether or not we can prevent the collapse of these presently united States, we must fight the war of ideas, for either way, that is the only hope we have of passing on to posterity the most precious bequest that there is: the philosophy of individual liberty.

        • Sir: I do not disagree. The Bad People do not see themselves as such, and the same sadly is true of the Good People. Shades of “The Second Coming” [“…The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity…”].

          But as Kipling pointed out in “Copybook Headings”, the eternal verities (“the ideas” in the parlance of this thread) are both true and utterly ignored by most. Might may not make right, but as applied, it surely does make your opponents stop opponentin’…and it is clear to me beyond question that such is the goal of the Bad People: co-opt as many as possible, and dispatch the rest.

          Hence, I at least return to my tired three-chord riff:

          – We’re screwed
          – There’s gonna be a fight
          – Let’s win

          Tell me (and I mean this in all sincerity and seriousness) how do “the ideas” help us win against a foe with stupidity, ignorance, will, a $ printing press, the lickspittle media, and mass on its side?

          Please tell me you don’t believe that philosophy will stop the spearcarriers?

          Or their bosses, both uniformed and in corpcasual?

          • CA:

            How many gun owners are there in this country? 75 million? More? A hundred million? With those numbers in mind, ask yourself the following:

            Why do we have an NFA?

            Why do we have the abomination of GC’68, NAZI laws translated into English and enacted in these presently united States?

            Why is there an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agency?

            The answer is because most of those 75 million+ people consent. Why? Why do they not question these gross infringements?

            Because of those 75 or 100 million people, perhaps only a tiny fraction of one percent understand the nature of individual rights, of the importance of the primacy of principle, of the reasons why liberty is important, why individual rights are worth defending at all perils. Why one ought NEVER to compromise in any form on essential principle. How such compromise leads to genocide. If that were to change, if even 10% of the gun owners in this country were to understand these things, there would be a restoration of the Constitution virtually overnight.

            But to answer your question more directly as to why the war of ideas is important, let us assume that there are perhaps 250,000 truly committed patriots out there. We’ll never know the real number, but take that as a for-instance, about a third of one percent of the gun owners in this country. If each one of those people can inspire that same level of commitment in one other person every six months, in a year there will be a million, and in two, there will be 4 million. I agree, that we will never convince the FSA, or those who manipulate them, but there are many in the middle who can be persuaded, in whom we can induce massive cognitive dissonance and ultimately inspire the kind of iron-souled determination that will be required to defend Liberty.

            If the British could not win in Northern Ireland against 200 active IRA shooters, how will the forces of tyranny win against even a half million truly committed patriots? Sam Adams once said that it did not take a majority to start the Revolution, but a tireless tiny minority setting brushfires in the minds of their friends and neighbors.

            As regards there being a fight between the FreeFor and TyrFor, that may be. What I *know* to be coming, sure as Death, is an economic collapse; what I do not know is when. Frankly, the way the present administration is castrating the armed forces, and the way that more and more people are being awakened by the actions of the present administration, then the longer we wait for a fight, the better. One could not ask for a better recruiting tool for FreeFor than the present policies of this administration. “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake!” and right now, not only are those exercising authority making errors, but they are actively helping us at the same time.

            As regards what demotivates a spear carrier, why did the cops pack it up and go home on October 13th? Wasn’t it Sun Tzu that said that excellence in warfare is defeating your enemy without fighting a battle? As you point out, few men ever intentionally do evil; the evil acts are redefined so as not to be perceived to be evil.

            So far, we have permitted that by not debating the issues. What if we make that impossible? What if enough people start shunning the thugs, start educating them about the evil that they do?

            What if we show the rank and file where the evil lies?

            Evil is generally *stupid*; if we strip away the misguided spear carriers, and only have the truly evil, won’t that make them easier to defeat?

            Why do you suppose that those who presently hold power are so concerned about people who believe in the Constitution or the rule of law? THEY know the power of ideas, and they also know that all their victories have been defaults.

            Now with all of that said, I doubt, given the present situation, that the present march to Marxism will be abandoned by those presently holding authority, and they may be tempted to use their present power against this country. If that happens, that will be an evil day, and it will indeed be time to “Deponite Libros.” Even then, however, the war of ideas will continue. If there is armed conflict between this country and its illegitimate government, it will be won as much in the minds of those undecideds as it will be in the field.

            What I would say is:
            “We are getting screwed.
            We need to be prepared for a fight, mentally and physically.
            If they start it, as long as we don’t lose, we’ll win.”

            Put another way, we need not destroy all of the enemy, we must destroy his will to fight.

        • Jimmy the Saint

          “Why are tyrants willing to kill us?”

          Because they can, and because it amuses them. Remember, the point of power IS power.

          “Why are we not willing to fight back?”
          No clear targets that would really have any impact; no one wants to be the first guy to go over the top; no organization to make fighting effective; no clear strategy; no unity in the ranks; etc., etc., etc.

          • Why is there a lack of will?

            “Lack of worthwhile targets?” Hardly. There are plenty, and more every day. Too many, perhaps.

            “Lack of organization?” Possibly, but anybody who has read Forsyth’s “the Day of the Jackal” understands the power of the individual. The skilled lone wolf is a security man’s worst nightmare.

            “Nobody wants to be the first man over the top?” True, but not the whole answer. Here I think we start to get somewhere useful, but there is more. There is a lack of will because there is a lack of understanding of the importance of the issue, and hence a lack of commitment. For those who do grasp the essence of the issue, I think that there is also a sense of numbness, for there have been so many outrages happening for so long that it becomes difficult for a man alone to maintain his sense of outrage. There are so many injustices, where does one begin?

            I know that I had no idea how many people would be on the Mall on October 13th, ( I expected perhaps 10 or 15 thousand at best) nor did I have any idea what sort of reception I would face, but I was so angry over the treatment of our elderly veterans, so utterly outraged at the spiteful vindictiveness targeted at people who had risked their lives to keep us safe that I wasn’t going to take it any more and decided that come what may, the BarryCades were not going to stand. We need to foster not only understanding of the issues but we need to fan the fires of outrage.

      • The original Conservatism understood that Man is a fallen race and that the average man was an inner slave. So no, there will be no victory in the realm of ideas (as if the average man thinks or can) and no voting our way out. The original Conservatives believed only a small number of people qualified to vote. In their low estimation of humanity, they are as one with Catholic thinkers and saints, and Pagan and Oriental Sages. It is just the simple truth. As Liberalism evolved it began to radically overestimate the nature of the average man. Even Jefferson and Franklin were subject to this until the horrors of the French Revolution cured them.

        Also Conservatives now refuse to look at the horrors of the Industrial Revolution which lead to modern Communism. The Industrialists didn’t stop using child labor – they were forced to by the Government. Ditto basic worker’s rights. With Freedom comes responsibility. With Power, great responsibility. If you fail in these, someone else will step in to either make it right or take it all away from you.

  9. The idea of America lives in my mind, heart and soul, and if like minded people want to align with that I am OK with it.

    I am not willing to negotiate about my natural rights at all.

  10. “The practical difficulty with our government has been, that most of those who have administered it, have taken it for granted that the Constitution, as it is written, was a thing of no importance; that it neither said what it meant, nor meant what it said; that it was gotten up by swindlers, (as many of its authors doubtless were,) who said a great many good things, which they did not mean, and meant a great many bad things, which they dared not say; that these men, under the false pretence of a government resting on the consent of the whole people, designed to entrap them into a government of a part; who should be powerful and fraudulent enough to cheat the weaker portion out of all the good things that were said, but not meant, and subject them to all the bad things that were meant, but not said. And most of those who have administered the government, have assumed that all these swindling intentions were to be carried into effect, in the place of the written Constitution.”

    Talk about prescience….

    • IIRC published in 1870, no less!

      I’ve been amazed at the prescience of Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”, but the prescience of Spooner is awe-inspiring.

  11. Historian, for whom I have the greatest respect, loses me in his argument and he maintains the fiction that the US is too big to fail. As far as the 75,000 war-porn marchers buttressing the state’s greatest weapon of expansion – military invasion and interference overseas – they provided a reverse guerrilla theater where their efforts put a wry smile on the Emperor’s face as the creature piles on in conflict after conflict globally maiming and killing women and children faster than we can extinguish their anguished male kin as they rise to the occasion.

    I don’t see it and I refuse to drink the Constitutional Kool-Aid for so many reasons. Before I was uninvited from LewRockwell, I wrote this:

    http://archive.lewrockwell.com/buppert/buppert29.1.html

    It nicely sums up my case against the wretched document so I don’t have to bore you with it here.

    Read Ken Royce’s book, The Hologram of Liberty for even more extensive treatment. The Constitution is a devilishly clever propaganda instrument to make sheep feel not-prey up until the moment they are mauled and devoured.

    Amendments do what exactly? If they pass, they become mere grammatical Rubik’s Cubes for the courts and legislature to shape into whatever grotesque caricature of original intent they wish. I think the 2A is rather clear when one considers that the second clause is the preamble and that “well-regulated” in the 1828 dictionary parlance was the ability to field and fight the weapon. Yet we have the 1934 NFA, the 1968 GCA, the 1986 M-VA, the 1989 Bushevik the First cosmetically offensive weapons importation ban followed by the NICS and blanket ban on all cosmetically offensive weapons and the very existence of the ATF. All Constitutional (whatever the fuck that means) and rubber-stamped by the robed government employees.

    Check out US v. Miller if you really want your head to explode over the Supremes’ twisted government supremacist logic.

    Amendments sure are clever and secure bulwarks for liberty, huh? Please remember the amendment process is a proxy process through statist organs in the legislatures.

    Stop the consolidationist madness of seeking to hold together the Frankenstein monster that is the US, a creature that had the head of the nation marching at the front of an army to put down tax resisters a mere three years after adoption in 1791.

    You want a Constitutional Republic? Break the country apart and then carve out a region to plant that collectivist seed-corn and watch the big government crop take root…again. Parchment idolatry of dead lawyers does not freedom make. Hell, I did not sign the document and the deeper I dig, the more I find out why the Anti-Federalists were shouting from the rooftops and terrified at the foisting of such a diabolical instrument on them and their progeny.

    The US has become a nasty amalgam of Milgram, Orwell and Huxley that distorts every incentive to civilization and reinforces the mass psychosis that is collectivism.

    You want to resist big government? Stop worshiping the document that is the engine of leviathan. Mordor adores Constitution worship for the worthless misdirection it is.

    US out of North America…

    Bill Buppert

    • Do you ever get the feeling that you’re in the wrong place? You are you know. Fortunately your kind is a minority, loud and eloquent, but a minority none the less.

      So please, I’m begging you with tears in my eyes, depart from us. There’s nothing here for you. We share not a single common thread.
      And your rhetoric is beginning to arouse some very harsh feelings.

      • Semper Fi, 0321

        alan, no harsh feelings here.
        I think he’s right, having read Hologram of Liberty and seeing how this plays out, there is a way deeper and sinister truth to what so many of you worship as biblical truth. The Constitution was not handed down by god, nor were the signers imbued with special powers. Taking it at face value isn’t fair to truth, study and study some more. How many folks do you know who call themselves Christians, and have never read the Bible?
        It’s a document created by mortal beings like you and I, flaws included. And even though we all see ourselves as patriots willing to fight for our form of federal gov’t, perhaps it needs a very thorough scrutiny, so these flaws don’t let this happen again. Most everything being done to us today is being done using the gaps in the documents.

          • Squared and cubed

            • Bless you all three, for your replies to Alan. And you too, Alan, for at least having the honesty and courage to speak your mind. Bill may not be right for your Mahjong Club, but he’s a giant among men for what matters here.

              Great thread; I picked a good one for today’s quick visit. Here’s my opinion of the root of it all, as worded by CA: “The Bad People do not see themselves as such, and the same sadly is true of the Good People.”

              Yep, that’s the con precisely. Nothing changes until Good people accept that they ARE good. We’ll never out-bad the scum thugs who choose to discard their minds, but maybe one day we’ll out-good them.

              Rebuild now.

              • Ooooh, I understand now. You’re a Buppert fan.

                Really Klein, you need to use more discretion in you’re selection of friends.

        • Yet his response reinforces my point about the power of the MYTH of the Constitution. Alan’s passionate response is exactly what I was referring to.

          • Why thank you.

            You believe what you want. I believe what I want. As long as we’re in congruence, no problem. When we’re not, I’m the worst enemy you ever had.

        • outlawpatriot

          While we’ve never actually met. I like you. I really do. Therefore, I’m gonna let it go.

          • Semper Fi, 0321

            thanks.
            This is for educational purposes only you know? I’d like to think we’re thick skinned enough that we can hurl insults all day, and still have a beer/Scotch together later. Destroy some more brain cells.

  12. @Boer6

    Bill, if you read carefully, I have quoted Spooner regarding the deficiencies of The Document, and I largely agree with him. But that does not mean that the Myth of the Constitution does not have power, power we can use to our benefit. Further- It took thousands of years, hundreds upon hundreds of lifetimes of individuals striving to discover the truth to develop the philosophy of the Enlightenment, and it has taken over 200 years to degrade the nation birthed by the enlightenment to this present point. I do not expect that we can overnight vault into anarcho-capitalism overnight, if ever. I submit that if we ever are to get to that point it will be through gradual evolution in attitude and discovery of the principles required to make it work. I think that with a well educated population, sound private money, and ENFORCEMENT of the Constitutional constraints so that they ACTUALLY obtain, we could move close to your ideal society in just a few years to a few decades, under the mantle of a true Constitutional Republic.

    From there, we can continue to refine the ideas of Liberty, and move towards the ideal. But what will you build upon without that?

    Destruction is easy, but building a lasting structure takes knowledge and experience. This is as true in politics as it is in architecture. Where is the experience of anarcho-capitalism? We know a lot more now about the pitfalls of maintaining a Constitutional Republic than we did 225 years ago; it strikes me that we have a better chance to repair this one Once the present deficiencies become blindingly obvious, as they are about to do.

    • Historian, thank you for all your comments here. I could only hope to express such important ideas so well. I greatly share your views.

      • The ideas are not mine, but I’d like to think that I’m smart enough to know good ideas when I encounter them. What is truly important is having these kinds of discussions. The power of debate is that it leads to deeper understanding.

        • I am familiar with the ideas. I’m congratulating you on the power of your insight and ability to express them, to explain them, and to answer the questions and criticisms of other folks here… so much better than I am able to do.

          For the rest of you, Historian’s comments here and the essays at his place are worth all the effort at understanding you can bring to bear.

          I think what I most admire is that they are beyond dogma and simplistic formula, while addressing the most critical questions we face.

          Thanks, again, Historian.

          • You are welcome, sir. I hope that these discussions are worthwhile, but as Nock once wrote, we shall never know what effect we have on the Remnant. At any rate, I shall keep on keepin’ on!

  13. Mr. Buppert….so, what is the solution to the existing tyranny and the forthcoming tyranny under any new “constitutional” entity ?

  14. Liberty is going down. It’s going down big time in a hurry, and nothing is going to change that until we demand it by force. Period. It’s not happening otherwise.

    The truth is, if you keep getting pushed, and you don’t push back, then you’re going down! There is no way around it. Not only that, you can’t just push back, you need to make it known you aren’t going to be pushed around, and when that doesn’t come across, you better be ready to push harder! Hard enough to finish the problem!

    This doesn’t necessarily mean there must be a violent physical fight, but in this case it most likely will mean exactly that. Either way, if you don’t have your back up against the wall ready to fight to the death, then we will not win. We will certainly lose badly though.

    Does anybody really think we can pull ourselves out of this by the ballot box? Can we rely on the current media? Do you think that somehow magically we will have legitimate elections? Heck, they don’t even have to cheat the actual results, they just buy the votes with the money they print and steal! Anybody think there will ever be term limits? That the NSA, DHS, EPA, IRS, etc. will be destroyed? How about that we will not be living in a full on police state? I mean really!

    “Freedom is not free”. There is something to that. I really think so.

    The power over the people is not going away unless we demand it, backed by force. It’s dream land to think otherwise. We have got to get out of dream land.

  15. Why are we not willing to fight back?

    Anyone who wants to impose a “covenant” on others is a Communist. “We” are not willing to fight back because most of “us” are Communists, and imagine commanding the Communist army to further “our” own interests.

    The very few of “us” who aren’t Communists have correctly identified that is far less dangerous to live in an environment that has flush toilets and refrigeration than to make war in self-defense.

    Eliminate modern medical care after an automobile crash, and that risk/reward balance changes.

    • Bullshit.

      How about this covenant:

      “Leave me and my stuff alone or I will kill you. This admonition applies to my neighbors, my countrymen, and the rest of the freaking world. Come in peace with open hands, proposing mutually-beneficial, consensual exchange, or prepare to discover whether or not there is an afterlife.”

      That too Communist for you?

      I swear some of you guys are so fucking twitchy I actually might agree with Alan on the uselessness of the “no leaders” political concept.

      • The dictionary says a “covenant” is an agreement between two parties. One of the parties is you. Who is the other party, and when did they agree? Or does it matter if they agree, because you’re going to outvote them at the con-con for North America?

        Alan is attacking a straw man, the concept is “no rulers”. You can follow any leader you want to.

        • Anon:

          You’re going to disagree with “leave me the eff alone or die”?

          Really?

          • I don’t think you want “leave me the eff alone or die”, I think you want what you wrote: “With the Communists expunged, we can build a new covenant for North America.”

            I’m getting a Ron Paul kinda vibe here. Ron Paul spent his legislative career wanting to end the Fed, yet he still believes a legislature should control the money supply. I believe he is an honest and sincere man, but with a mental blind spot about his inconsistency.

            This is a similar inconsistency. You cannot numerically average the tax rates desired by a coalition of 90% Taft Republicans and 10% Anarchists to produce a big tent party platform.

      • Libertarianism is a dead end. The Founders were collectivists to these guys. They have no Tradition and never can have any. On the other, worship of the Founders is wrong as well. Children should be given the Tradition and the basic reverence for it. But by the time secondary education is reached, critical review should be encouraged.

  16. Now that I’ve regained my composure. This is an excellent thread. My compliments to Historian.

    While I don’t agree with the thing being a “myth”, I’m not gonna quibble. The only thing important is the thing is powerful. And yes, it should be capitalized on.

    Levin is kinda moving in this vein now. If you guys aren’t listening to him now, you should. The dude’s on fire. There is a leader there.

    While I find both Levin and Historian both on target, both come up short in my opinion. There are many more corrections that need to be made in light of our 240 years. Ironically, some were of concerned during the ratification conventions. Especially Virginia’s.

    While it wasn’t a big issue then, certain individuals like Mason and Hamilton felt that there should be requirements for an individual to vote. If there was only one thing that could be changed, that one would be my choice. It lies at the base. Direct taxation by the federal government would be a close second. It sowed the seed of modern slavery. Those are just a couple from my list. But the bottom line is that we need to have a 28th amendment repealing the first 27 and a “Bill of Corrections, Clarifications, Updates, Upgrades”, whatever.

    Gotta win a war first though. That kind of thing has to be part of a peace treaty or something like the Magna Carta. Under no circumstances is any of this gonna get corrected without a bloody, desparate struggle.

    • Alan:

      I am considering a post on the idea you mentioned, restriction of the franchise. It has been discussed by a number of people since the 1780s and may be worth some thought.

      Neil Smith would agree with you as regards giving the ability of direct taxation to the Federal Government, and that is worth discussion as well.

      • I stand on the shoulders of giants my friend. I’m not that gifted. I just read and study.

        The trick to the whole thing is to get as close to anarchy as possible while preventing various and assorted ne’er do wells from gaming the system. It is also necessary to keep in mind that there are no such things as “parchment barriers” as Madison put it.

        Our Constitution is a pretty far right document. It was written and put in place for a signature culture. We also had experience with a further right document, the Articles of Confederation. A totally unworkable document that damn near cost us winning the Revolution.

  17. I see that you guys are finally starting to catch on. Keep it up.

    Now think about the “Enlightenment”.

  18. Gentlemen,

    The Constitution was ground out over a 14 year process by good minds while those same men were being hunted or accused of being Traitors. They would have lunch at the local Tavern Where those who followed the Kings law gathered as well.

    It is the same with the White Nationalists. We are despised by those whom we want to preserve and free.

    White are scheduled to be a minority in their own Countries by 2050 (USA by 2047, Norway by 2043, England by 2052, etc) and the Communists will have won. What they will have won is unknown. Tyson chicken is now complaining that the Somalians they brought into the USA to replace the Mexicans are suddenly complaining about the work rules. (See: https://jonjayray.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/muslim-somalis-flood-one-small-kansas-town/ ).

    The point is that 1950’s Ammarrica isn’t coming back, ever. It was a beautiful time, but it is gone. Detroit is a ghost town, made so by a demographic that shelters in the abandon skyscrapers like Zombies in a movie, only moving to the Walmart when their ETB card is charged every month. In Detroit, most city services will not serve the abandon Zones and nearly all of the streetlights have been stripped by the aforementioned demographic for the copper. Is that want you want to fight for?

    A new nation, under a Northwest Republic Constitution that shunts all the aggressiveness of the State to preserving the posterity of the Nation is needed. No income tax and tariffs to keep jobs in and items made by slave labor out.
    Read our proposed Constitution, Consider the Tricolor flag…

    • LT:

      Free men and women are, of course, free to associate as they wish.

      So too are other free folks at liberty to condemn such associations.

      For my two cents, a race-neutral property/speech/person-defending approach will yield a more rapid growth curve and more lasting results.

      • It will just start all over again. The Redoubt attain Freedom though some combination of luck, collapse, bravery, and battle. It accepts immigrants from devastated areas of the former United States. Blacks and Browns begin to surge in. They create their own subcultures. The unscrupulous (whom we will always have with us) begin to court them for their votes. And so on.

        Why build on sand like we did last time? You want lasting results? Then One people, One Culture per Nation. Anything else is like having more than one mind in a single body. Madness.

        • Semper Fi, 0321

          Well said. Several fingers of my family have opened to multiculturalism, myself included. But as history shows, one people, one culture makes for a strong family. Ein Volk doesn’t look so stupid to me anymore.

    • LT:

      In addition to CA’s comment, with which I entirely agree, in point of historical fact your statement about the genesis of the Constitution is entirely incorrect.

      The Articles of Confederation were produced and ratified while the Revolution was under way, but the Constitution was produced from May to September of 1787. It took less than 5 months to write it, not 14 years. It wasn’t until the Bill of Rights was added to The Document that it gained enough support to get ratified in 1789. In effect, the creation of the Constitution was a Federalist coup against the Articles of Confederation, and was denounced as such at the time.

      The prevailing sentiment was that it was better than the Articles, but only slightly.

  19. Spiffing thread, chaps.

    I’m always on the lookout for some “unifying paradigm” … some core values beneath which good people can congregate. Christianity and Constitutions have served this purpose, but found to be wanting.

    So, let me propose to each of you, a few simple statements.

    1. You were born the owner of Property. That Property is your life and body.

    2. It follows that the product of your labour becomes your Property. (if you want me to expand on this, click on the video link)

    3. It is “wrong” to seize the Property of others. (8th Commandment is just one justification for this statement)

    Now, is there anyone who disagrees with what I have stated, so far?

    Assuming that you all agree with this … do we have the beginnings of a Unifying Paradigm?

  20. Historian & Dan III,

    Sorry for the delayed response but I am half-way around the planet.

    Thank you for mentioning and paying homage to Spooner, probably one of the most gifted legal minds in American history. I do think the degradation of liberties was immediate and palpable and just a taste of things to come. A thought experiment: what descriptive value does the word unconstitutional have? None. One must not confuse the referent with the thing.

    The very notion that the US tax jurisdiction as currently constructed is the only physical possibility is a large part of the problem. Thirteen colonies, not the US, sued for peace in Paris in 1783. Born in secession as ALL nation states are in history.

    You ask: “Where is the experience of anarcho-capitalism?” A few answers: garage sales, bartering, gun shows and classified sales, family dinners, charitable giving, helping friends and families, grants to friends, the entire cash economy, the underground economy and all human transactions where a moral compass guides your actions and not a lash. After all, absent the an-cap black economy in the USSR, the collectivist state would have expired far earlier. I simply don’t the point of protecting myself from bad people by putting the worse people in charge with life and death decisions over me and a veto on my liberty.

    You cannot repair a system that has tyranny built into its DNA.

    We will chalk it up to a gentleman’s disagreement.

    Bill Buppert

    • “You cannot repair a system that has tyranny built into its DNA.”
      Really?
      Are those defects inherent in the philosophy, in the DNA, or are they something else?
      How did these presently united States come to be formed, originally?
      Did we not build on past successes, noting past failures? Did we not adapt what worked and change the things that caused problems? True, we have a different set of problems, but that is the nature of things; each problem’s solution is the basis for the next.

      There are NO PERFECT DESIGNS! One can only try to find an elegant balance between competing requirements, and successful designs take into account past successes and failures.

      Political structures, just like biological organisms, evolve from their ancestors, and just like biological organisms, the changes can be beneficial or not. Just now, these presently united States have the equivalent of a bad case of metastacized cancer. How this will turn out remains to be seen, but if we are wise, we will excise the cancer-causing ideas and build on the foundations of the past. I do not think that this will be in any way an easy task. Nothing in life is free. Nor is this to say that the political body won’t need an immune system; that is part of our present problem.

      It is also possible that in the future, the inherent shortcomings of a constitutional republic will become so profound that we will try something different, supported by advances in philosophy and by more experience. This is one advantage of the Lamarkian evolution of politics over the Darwinian evolution of biology; one can envision and employ a completely new set of memes, while genes change slowly, one discrete change at a time, and Nature cannot simply create a completely new set of genes. Interesting as this may be, for the moment, we have a serious problem, and my inclination is to stick to known solutions, addressing known shortcomings rather than to leap into the unknown and untried. And I say this as somebody who once made his first night jump at a drop zone where he had never before jumped. (and landed in the peas, I might add.)

      The history of structural engineering is replete with failures, and understanding why structures fail is how the art is advanced. Studying the failures of the Constitution and making the needed modifications is the first step to take. We ought to think long and hard, and think again, before simply destroying the whole thing, or allowing it to be destroyed.

      • I know I’m getting to be just a cheerleader, on the sidelines, but that is brilliant.

        I am glad to be just smart enough to understand and appreciate your expositions, your commitment to even tempered good judgement and to the founding ideals.

  21. In the end any document, whether the Magna Carta, Communist Manifesto or Constitution written by angels, is “just a goddamned piece of paper.”

    Sorry for taking the Lord’s name in vain, but if that’s what our rulers think about it, it should tell you something.

    Our culture has been corrupted, not only by the Free Shit Army and their enablers, but by an insane adherence to hair-splitting legal argument being substituted for justice. The concept is easy, ghostsniper has nailed it (don’t try and take my shit by force unless you want to die) but FreeFor has a reverence for abiding by a document that the other side doesn’t even bother to give it lip service to. This is where the “myth” description comes from IMO. The line in the sand keeps moving as another commenter noted, but we back up under the assault of the Fabian strategy. What, are you gonna blast some cop just doing his job over a 55 MPH speed limit? No, but the principle is that if the Authorities can regulate that, you’ve just given them de facto permission to do anything.

    Churchill, affable drunk that he was, was supposed to have engaged a comely high-society lady in conversation at a shindig.

    “Madam,” he asked her, well in his cups. “Would you care to come to bed with me this fine evening?” The lady, gazing upon Sir Winston’s ugly mug, declined his offer forthwith along with a look suggesting she’d bitten into something rotten.

    Sir Winston, not easily deterred, took another tack. “Madam, would you reconsider if I offered you half a million pounds?”

    That changed things! The lady thought it over and allowed that she would take a tumble with Churchill for the aforementioned sum.

    “Well, then, how about 20 quid?” came back our besotted hero.

    “Certainly not!” the lady sniffed. “What do you take me for?”

    “We’ve already established what you are, madam,” replied Sir Winston. “Now we are just haggling on price.”

    The story, while quite probably apocryphal, shows us for what we are once we agreed that it was OK for .gov to do things that we felt were too expensive or difficult to do for ourselves. When you cede responsibility, you also cede authority and these days, we’d be lucky to get a plugged nickel, much less the 20 quid.

    • With respect, sir, I would say that without people willing to enforce it, any document is just a piece of paper. And your point about culture is very well taken. My goal is to use the philosophy of liberty to direct the American culture back towards an overt recognition of the importance of Liberty. After all, the Fabian Socialists have done it, and they have a much worse set of ideas.

    • Since you mentioned Churchill there is one episode which I have from several sources:

      Churchill, after being voted out as Prime Minister toward the end of WW2, was invited to a party thrown by some leaders of the Labour party. The hostess, whose name escapes me at the moment, was at the door greeting her guests as they arrived. Churchill came in the door, somewhat the worse for wear, surveyed his hostess, and declaimed: “Madam, you’re ugly!” “Sir Winston,” the shocked hostess replied, “You’re drunk!” “Quite true, madam, but *I* shall be sober in the morning!”