Sierra 12: Dry Fire – Firing On The Move

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Excellent material to read and then incorporate into your next training session.

Tempus fugit.

24 responses to “Sierra 12: Dry Fire – Firing On The Move

  1. Can anyone direct me to training and likeminded people in the central TX area?

  2. Paul Lemmen

    Reblogged this on III Percent Solution.

  3. unless they are fighting the GSA, I’m looking at a picture of 3 guys who will be dead in 1.5 seconds

  4. This kind of training always struck me as unrealistic. If you are moving, you are not doing some slow shuffle, standing out in the breeze. You are hauling ass to get behind cover. Even if the military actually does things like this, militia does not have to fight like them.

    What do resistance movements do? They set ambushes and they use sniper attacks and so forth. 5 rounds and scoot. Unless I’m mistaken…

    • Grenadier1

      Its not really a field tactic. Its a CQB tactic. In the field you will be moving OR shooting, but in a close terrain you need to be able to do both. There is just so much terrain in a close environment that you sometimes have to provide your own covering fire in the Fire and Movement process.

    • PJ, here’s the Army says on the matter:

      “SRM [CQB] training allows Soldiers to quickly and effectively engage targets at ranges less than 50 meters. Although normally associated with UO [MOUT], SRM techniques are also used during operations in restrictive terrain, such as clearing a trench line, the final assault across an objective during an attack or raid, or when fighting in dense vegetation or during periods of limited visibility ”

      See FM 3-22.9, Chapter 7, especially Section Vi.

      https://rdl.train.army.mil/catalog/view/100.ATSC/434948EB-8945-4C25-9389-B33B4927856C-1308726234899/3-22.9/chap7.htm

  5. Having done quite a bit of shooting on the move on a square range (MEUSOC qualification at class), I can comfortably say that doing such is strictly a short range proposition, You can do it from 50 or so, and the MEUSOC has a string that is 2 shots on the move from 50 to 25, but it is very hard. Closer than that is easier, with the closer you get, the easier it is.
    On a RDS, the dot will perform a horizontal figure 8, and you can not chase the dot*, or you will miss.
    Video of a portion of the MEUSOC qual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba3Zx9KripY
    *Chasing the dot is defined as: tracking the dot as it moves, and as crosses your target, yanking the trigger to get the shot to go there. It never does.

  6. @Stewie- check out Battle Road. Contact Scout

  7. PJ,

    You do see a lot of firing on the move training coming from main-stream door-kicker training types and SEAL experience wannabes, and I agree, in that context, it’s somewhat unrealistic to our needs. They like it because it makes for great highlight reel scenes truckin’ down a hallway, rifle up, blasting away and posted on YouTube. We teach it and run a few drills on it because it gets used in proper light infantry movements when closing on and destroying an enemy.

    Without going into too much detail and a lengthy description of techniques, when the assaulting element gets to closing range with the enemy where it is time to push through the final assault on the enemy position, the entire element will engage on-line, firing while they charge through the position. It’s a good idea to improve your ability to shoot on the move to complete the assault. There are other contexts for moving through an enemy position while firing on the move, but you get the point.

    • I can see an Army unit doing it, because generals don’t mind expending privates, and privates have no choice. I just don’t see militias doing it. I don’t see ME doing it. First, why would small militia units attack a set position at all, with the enemy aware and shooting back? They would disengage and live to fight another day. And even assuming some rare circumstance where that had to be done, AND the men were willing to do it, why would it be better than simply running as fast as you can to another point of cover, then shooting from cover? Or withdrawing and flanking? Or simply sniping from long range? The OP states he is not talking about suppressive fire, and that shooting on the move is a very low percentage thing anyway.

      • Why would a militia do this?
        Hitting a confidence target that requires you to sweep the objective to recover gear.
        Defending your position when they get inside your house/perimeter and you have to clear them out.
        Eyeball to eyeball contact while moving through vegetation.
        Urban areas where stray rounds must be minimized to prevent non-combatant casualties.

        Amazingly, all the reasons the military gives.

        And don’t forget, you may be training new folks with limited ammo and a real need for quiet. This shouldn’t take more than a couple of hours and pays dividends.

  8. Another “we can make you a seal team ninja SF killer in just seven days for the low-low price of 5000 dollars” “Learn tacticool walking, spray and pray, and how to choose the coolest new tactical knife and the coolest”look” Learn to clear your “assault weapon” when it jams and how to treat severe dehydration” “learn to be the most “tacticool kid” in your three man militia battalion” FREE TACTICAL BACON!!!. Sorry but I have been seeing this since before the internet. Back years ago when everybody thought guys in black BDU’s with AK’s and MAC-10’s were the coolest kids ,this “training” would have been good for a laugh down at the VFW. Know what? It still is.

    • The VFW?

      Really, Ray?

      Holy shit. Tell us more please.

    • So, if that’s the case, why aren’t you offering “real training” for $100 a head or less?

      Just curious, because it’s always easy to denigrate someone else’s training offerings/ideas….especially when you’re not proving by doing.

      Just sayin’

    • Jim Klein

      “Another ‘we can make you a seal team ninja SF killer in just seven days for the low-low price of 5000 dollars’”

      That seems a funny gripe. I got nothing like that from the article…do you have any support for that at all, or is it just a feeling?

      Personally I hope trainers and anyone else doing anything of value, make a ton of profit from it. I mean…if we’re just waiting around for tragedies to happen, might as well do some good things along the way, right?

      Profit is a benefit and benefits are good. If there’s one grand error in the FREEFOR movement, denial of that is it. It’s also critical to WINNING; that’s why Patton said to let the other guy sacrifice his life.

  9. I’ve haven’t used that tactic in a real fire fight, but I have used it lots in force on force with great success. It’s more of a cqb and closer tactic for sure.

    I know there is some real world experience represented in that photo… I wonder if he will chime in.

  10. Ok, so I’ve got to put my two cents in here. I never served in the military, so I am sure some here will discount my opinion immediately, but what the fuck is up with all the friendly fire here?!? If you look at the Sierra12 (https://www.sierra12.com/classes.html) site you can clearly see their class offerings. They offer basic courses, cqb/square range courses as well as SUT, patrolling and land navigation. They are training willing individuals and people are taking cheap shots at this and that? I kept my mouth largely shut when MVT was being dumped on, but this is just overkill. Many of us do not have the benefit of 13+ weeks of basic training and these types of small schools are invaluable to us. Will we become super soldiers after one weekend? Hell no! But will we be better, even just a little bit better, after one weekend? I get that others here do things differently or put priority over certain skills/tactics, but why someone on this site would dump on anyone providing training is beyond me!

    • The British Army Reserve train their soldiers on weekends usually for a few months + 1 “drill night” a week. Weekends are more than sufficient to raise someone to a basic soldier provided the training schedule is stuck to and you have a decent instructor and team behind them. Also involves a bit of home study too.

  11. @JeffSags
    Bravo !!!

  12. Doing those sierra12-recommended drills does not take much more than a bit of your morning training time that you would otherwise spend doing other training, right? What he is talking about, is living room drills. The things you do every day in preparation to be the winner of the fight, prior to going off to work for The Man. You pick what you will do each morning, then critique from that point of view.

    Choose: In the limited time that most people have each day to train, would you sooner do push-ups and sit-ups all the time, or might you want to take a little break from that and let your mind school your feet for a different sort of walking?

    It’s just another training tool. Doesn’t mean you need to fight that way. The opportunity cost (as economists would put it) of learning non-disruptive body movement is pretty low. Benefits could be high, as a person learns a different way of movement, guns be damned as being irrelevant to the goal of the drill. Seems as if there was an AAR quite recently by our host which talked about his need to learn a different way of movement through noisy terrain. I’d think that any drill which schools the behavior of the feet to the control of the mind, might have some benefit to it.

  13. I feel my inner John Mosby wanting to burst forth. If you can’t see the utility of this drill, then you should join us at one of our classes. I’m sure it will be too hot for some of the keyboard commandos who have laid down their wealth of knowledge on this thread.

    First, as you can see this picture represents the Crawl portion of the shoot and move drill. You will note the weapons don’t have a magazine; no round is in the chamber. We are doing a dry run. This Drill included near – medium – far targets. Near targets are at the 25 yard line, medium targets are at the 50, far targets are at the 100 yard mark.

    Once we have gotten the hang of walking, we add in firing. We live fire, looking for good accuracy on the near targets (25yrd). We live fire, looking for acceptable accuracy on the medium target (50yrd). We have the far (100yrd) target set up to show the difficulties of shooting while moving on a target at that distance.

    When you see something described as a drill it usually indicates the movement or training is part of a bigger picture. Some of the commenter’s seem to be looking at the “Dry Fire Movement drill” in a vacuum. This drill isn’t the only piece of training or advice you need to know before you are considered a proficient member of a team or squad or in some cases acting as part of a Militia.

    One thing we ask of our attendees is to come to training with an open mind. We are teaching “A way” of doing something. There are a litany of books- DVD’s- YouTube- and real life training examples which will show you hundreds of different ways to accomplish a very simple task. We aren’t the definitive experts on knowledge and we sure don’t have the market cornered on the end-all-be-all of tactical training. What we do have is the drive and dedication to get off our asses and pass along our experiences.
    Sierra12 training is based on an adaptation of Marine Corps and Army –Basic Light Infantry doctrine.

    We have made small adaptations here and there. Our training is focused on Small Unit Tactics 2-3-4-5… (6 if you are lucky) member teams. We again approach training in a “crawl-walk-run” method. In the Fire and movement dry fire drill, we are also learning how to walk tactically. Walking tactically is also a key part of patrolling. You will be patrolling when the S-Hits the Fan right? Projection of power, projection of security, early warning through recon patrols is all based on walking.

    I don’t have a lengthy secret squirrel resume to shock and impress you with. I am a Marine, and prior Army Sergeant; outside of the military I was a uniformed Department of Defense Police officer and moved on to get hired on with San Diego Police Department as a sworn Patrol Officer. My experiences are based on real life combat as well as training with some of the best in the business.

    Sierra12 isn’t looking to fleece those of their hard earned money. We eventually would like to be able to cover our investment and the cost of putting on a class. Our motivation is foremost to pass along our experiences to those who would like to expand their training toolbox. We have sunk so much money into this little training venture that if our wives and families don’t divorce us and walk out due to every waking moment and spare dollar being spent on trying to make our training area better, getting sponsors to donate equipment for our attendees to use and try out during training, having steel targets made, improvising cover and obstacles and a laundry list of other time consuming and money eating projects longer than I have the time or compunction to acknowledge right now.

    PJ brought up some points about what the Militia would do or what PJ would or would not do. I recently spent some time out at the Bundy Ranch during the BLM standoff. I wrote about my experiences while at the ranch and posted it here on WRSA in the form of an AAR. Specifically some of the things I observed with the militia groups on site at the Bundy Ranch left me feeling more confused than ever about the militia movement. I observed so much infighting and back stabbing to make me think that our main worry isn’t the enemy at hand; our worst enemy is the enemy within.

    Coming together, boosting each other up, having our ego take a back seat for the betterment of the team; these are all things I am finding we are failing at.

    Ray and PJ, for the next year I will accept either one of you into any of our class offerings free of charge. Review the training, place it on the Internet, and do as you will. I’m confident you will not only learn something, but you will also have fun while doing so.
    Email Sierra12 at Training@sierra12.com when you are ready to schedule.
    -Out
    Daybreak (Jason, Sierra12 Defensive Studies Group)

    • Daybreak – You don’t have to justify yourself, nor list your pedigree. It’s evident to anyone who’s been anywhere you guys have your shit together.

      I’d train with you anytime.