FM 23-25

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For your information.

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15 responses to “FM 23-25

  1. James Cline

    Regarding the illustration below the FM, they were still teaching that move in 1968.

  2. Combat is about killing . What weapon you use , what shoes you wear, how tacticool your pants are mean NOTHING AT ALL. A man in a breach clout & moccasins with a stone tipped spear can kill someone just as dead as a man in an F-15E. Weapons are just tools it is the man who uses them AND HIS WILLINGNESS TO DO SO that kill.

    • Got it.

      But what if Spearboy catches a 77 OTM in his noggin from 300m as he is Apaching his way towards his foe?

      Will is decisive.

      But tools and skills and practice matter.

      A lot.

      • Jimmy The Saint

        The Zulus at Isandlwana remind us that numbers and terrain can matter even more.

        And logistics – as one of the 24th Foot said in Zulu Dawn: “But bullets run out… and those bloody spears don ‘t.”

        • Gatlings at Little Big Horn.

          CAS at LZ X-Ray.

          The absence or presence of weapons matters.

          • indeed. Horace Smith-Dorrien (survivor of Isandhlwana, 22 Jan. 1879; c/o II Corps, Western Front, 1914-15) says there was plenty of ammunition. But it was contained in wooden boxes with nailed-shut lids some 400 yards from the firing-line, and could not be gotten to in time; a result of top-down command failure. His book – Memories of 48 Years Service – is one of the best ever written on violent conflict.

  3. Save the slashes for last, if you have time. Short rifles and body armor have pretty much eliminated their effectiveness.

    Hips and heads aren’t reserved solely for bullets.

  4. SemperFi, 0321

    I went thru bayonet training with an M-14, perfect weapon for the course. Doesn’t help much for one of those shortened M-4’s today, maybe a superdupermach3 sharpened cookiecutter flash suppressor will work though. And you can even open MRE’s with ’em later.

    • I can’t vouch for the superdupermach3 sharpened cookiecutter flash suppressor (I like that.) but I fed a guy the carrying handle on my M4 one afternoon. We were both impressed. Can’t for the life of me imagine how a bayonet would have worked better.

  5. Cassandra (of Troy)

    It’s the brevity/breakability of the modern bayo that makes me give it the fisheye & so why I had an Arisaka BPU modified to fit current bayo mounts & keep the Randall Model 14 for close work. As w/ sex, longer & stronger is better.

    Cassandra (of Troy)

  6. When I first learned that the U.S. Army announced that it was no longer giving instruction on bayonet use I was disappointed. Having had bayonet training in basic (Ft. Beginning GA), I knew that that part of combative training necessary to teaching aggressive, violent and lethal skills.
    At no other time in training did the same ‘killer’ instinct come to mind. At the end of the bayonet course I recall being totally physically spent and yet so adrenaline pumped, I think that level of aggressive ‘spirt of the bayonet’ is good for unit readiness.
    Short rifle and body armor issues aside, bayonet training is vital to training.

  7. This is what FM 23-25 is trying to teach, like Patton said “Very few people have been killed with a bayonet or sabre in the history of warfare but the thought of having your guts explored by cold steel in the hands of battle-maddened men has won many fights.” Here is that timeless lesson from FM 23-25 in the GWOT.