Two Exercises

Disaster-Recovery-Plan

1) For the hardcore DX hams out there, what say trying to make contact with Liberian or other West Africa boots on the ground for a SITREP to be shared in comments?

2) It’s January, 2015. The “Ebola scare” pre-election is now the Ebola reality. The combination of political/medical hubris and continued unrestricted travel from West African countries have created an unprecedented crisis in FUSA. Your rural county retreat in a relatively remote area of the country protected you and your people somewhat from the disease, until the progressive county chairman and the director of your local hospital volunteered the use of that facility as a “temporary supplemental healthcare site”.

Within three days, five critically-ill Ebola patients were relocated from the state capital to your county. Three days after that event and the inevitable contamination incidents, the transferred patients were dead, the hospital had been abandoned, at least one doctor and three ICU staff were symptomatic, and nearly 30 associates of the medical personnel were potentially exposed. When a longtime waitress at the local breakfast place is diagnosed as symptomatic with the disease, the lack of any connections between her and the hospital exposures creates a near-panic in your community. Before going into hiding, the county chairman assures residents via a local radio broadcast and Facebook postings that help is on the way from the state capital, but will be somewhat delayed due to uncertain conditions there.

In comments, explain what you will do regarding

a) your team’s health/safety, and

b) the community’s health/safety.

You can assume for the purposes of this exercise that little or no help will be arriving from either state or Federal resources due to other demands and your county’s political alignment. Your local sheriff is part of your ad hoc response group, although his resources are very limited.

Your answers should include references to roadblocks/access control, maintenance of community food/medical/POL supplies, supportive care for individuals in self-quarantine, public health measures to be used against exposed or potentially exposed individuals who refuse to self-quarantine, facilities and resources needed for same, contents of public safety advisories, and corpse disposal (complicated due to groundwater issues and the thin soil in your mountainous region). Assume a 30% minimum mortality rate, a county population (with refugees) of 35,000, and a transmissibility factor of 2 (i.e., every exposed infected person can create no less than 2 other exposed infected people).

References should be cited/linked where possible. Start with these two resources.

Good luck.

West_Africa_Ebola_2014_5_cum_case_by_country_Oct_28(Graphic via Vinny)

154 responses to “Two Exercises

  1. My answer will be to kill every pig I can find. THEY are the damnable swill who enabled this in the first place, and NOW you want to trust them as part of the “response group”? The Brevard County Sheriff’s Office has pigs assigned to the Central Florida Intelligence Exchange, helping the FedPig swill do their thing. And those county pigs are also neck-deep in Operation Castaway, which was Tampa’s version of the Phoenix Fast and Furious gun running. I’ll do everything I can to help every one of them burn in hell where they belong.

  2. For the purposes of the exercise, the sheriff is ok. I totally get that many/most are not.

  3. As far as boots on ground go, I have a contact who’s one of the primaries in Monrovia. They’re in the thick of it right now, but I’ll keep you posted as soon as I get info.

  4. Last week’s report was just long enough to tell me they could see people dying out in the open from the windows of the building they’re occupying. Laying in the open, spewing fluids and dying. I don’t know yet whether that means one family or one neighborhood.

  5. Damn. That’s the hypo I used nearly a month ago in talking to folks about the need for alternate comms – GMA and Today are blaring “Alles gut” and your kid asks why there’s a man lying in the street at the end of the cul-de-sac.

  6. For #2 I already have a plan in place that when the first ebola case shows up in the county or metro area I live in we go into reverse quarantine. So there is no real way my family or my group will have been exposed. And since we have a years supply of food already in place we are covered.

    If you expand out to the community though then things get tough.

    Being an engineer I tend to be very straightforward in how things get solved.

    Problem 1 is to stop the importation and spread of the disease. This would involve a coup d’état and the forcible quarantine of the idiot political leaders inside of the ebola ward (to be established) if they remain in the area. Without it being personal I.e. As long as the politicians can hide behind immunity this problem will continue. Couple this with roadblocks to isolate the county. Refugees? Not unless they have property in the county and it’s listed on their DL, or their immediate family agrees to take them in. And not if they show any signs of sickness.

    So you would need to recruit individuals to man the roadblocks and provide them with minimally effective PPE. Hard to get infected at 100 feet or more of standoff. You would need a couple of sets of good PPE (full coverage tyvek, goggles, respirator) to approach and check the individuals who want to enter. You then create an inbound quarantine facility staffed with medical personnel along the lines of CNAs. Something like an old motel along the highway into town where you can isolate the various incoming families for a few days and check them for illness. And by isolate I also include isolation from each other so that one sick individual does not spread it to the whole camp. Which is why the motel with multiple rooms.

    Within the county the same thing applies. Sick are isolated asap in a nursing home for example. Minimize cross contamination. Teams to isolate them and to care for them have to have full PPE gear on at all times. You will need to have decon facilities with workers trained to decon the workers in contact with ebola patients.

    Once the above is established you then lockdown the county for a month. Only properly protected volunteers deliver food and or other necessary supplies to residents. Again, decon workers to decon those in contact with families. They are in full PPE at all times even with one another.

    You then have to have a shoot on site order for anybody in public who is not in full PPE. This has to be enforced with patrols in minimal PPE using one POST certified individual and one or more non POST certified reliable individuals. Ex military types, family men who have the right attitude and who realize their families are at risk, etc.

    During the month lockdown you will have limited the spread and have been able to isolate those who are sick. Now you have an ebola ward aka nursing home and an intake isolation facility aka a motel. Everybody inside the county should in theory be uninflected.

    Thinking it through you would want workers in direct contact with known ebola patients to be under quarantine as well just in case. So a two tier system whereby doctors and nurses directly handling ebola patients are isolated aswell for the duration.

    Full PPE should be along the lines of BSL 4 gear. This is for those working directly with known ebola patients.

    Next level down would be full hooded suits With goggles and N100 masks, layered gloves, and booties. This is for those who are in contact with unknown patients ie delivering food to families or in contact with those wishing to enter. This is also for those who decon those who are in direct contact with Ebola patients.

    Lowest level of PPE would be masks – and here n95 masks would be acceptable – gloves, goggles, and tyvek suits like you can get in paint stores. This is for those who are decontaminating those decon workers above and for those on the road blocks or who have to be out during the month long lockdown. Helps prevent you catching it but more importantly helps prevent you giving it if you unknowingly are infected.

    Repurpose the sheriffs number for food delivery requests. Remember after a month the general population won’t be on lockdown.

    Deliveries will have to stop at the roadblocks, outside driver waits and an inside person delivers the load. All items entering have to be decontaminated using acetic acid for example (vinegar is 3% acetic acid) or have been packaged prior to the outbreak.

    See website below.

    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

  7. Board up the house. Noise/light/trash discipline. Maybe put up sign, “Quarantine in effect” to scare away potential looters. 00 buckshot for those it doesn’t scare off.

    Tabasco sauce for the neighbors.
    😉

    Rural retreat? I wish. My “retreat” is to the relatives place, but they’re still too close to Columbus Ohio for my taste.

    Your scenario does have some similarities. Got a couple close by medical centers and urgent cares within a couple miles. Yay. A bajillion idiot yuppies in McMansions with a dozen big screen TV’s and likely dust bunnies in the pantry. Double Yay.

    I think my disaster plan is barely a step above Dilbert’s except for a couple guns and some food.

  8. If the sheriff is indeed OK, then the first order of business would be to have him deliver the county chariman and the director of the hospital. Help him as necessary.

  9. the fukkn A-team

    Then show the evidence…
    If you tell a lie long enough, people will start to believe it.

    http://truthsector.net/2014/10/06/ebolagate-2014-africa-has-far-more-cell-phones-than-north-america-why-no-ebola-photos-then/

  10. Fortunately theres nothing around for Ebola to combine with, reassort and produce something more efficient:
    http://www.diamondbackonline.com/news/campus/article_ca0455a6-5f04-11e4-bc30-0017a43b2370.html

    19 cases in 4 days. Nice.

  11. And for those who assume I am a bloodthirsty sonofabitch who wants retribution against that swill, as well as corroboration that the sheriff is OK, well, you’re correct. But also understand that those two individuals are the ones who BROUGHT the disease into your homes. And as long as they are out-of-pocket, smart money says they are keeping track of your successes and failures, and are transmitting that information to others OUTSIDE the county. If you have any success while they are on the loose, you should expect further deliveries from Your Betters elsewhere.

  12. Here’s what my wife and I have been working on. Still a lot of empty slots as yet. We’re currently in Phase II. Comments welcome.

    Planning Phases:
    I. Monitoring and Planning
    A. Definition: Watch news, observe for changes,
    B. Threshold: Normal Situation
    1. Indications
    C. Tasks:
    • Establish Information sources
    • Review Courses of Action
    • Coordinate with friends and family
    • Identify needed resources

    D. Resources:

    II. Social Distancing
    A. Definition: Minimize chances of infection while conducting normal routine
    B. Threshold: Infection in CONUS
    1. Indications: Traditional and non-traditional news outlets
    C. Tasks:
    • Obtain needed resources
    • No hugging
    • Sanitize after contact
    • Full hand & face wash upon return home
    • Avoid crowds, airports, etc.
    D. Resources:
    • GermX
    • Soap
    • Fingernail brushes

    III. Limited Contact
    A. Definition: Essential travel outside the house only.
    B. Threshold: Infection in (Home State) or adjacent states.
    1. Indications
    C. Tasks:
    • Limit exposure to:
    o Work
    o Groceries and necessity shopping
     Shop after hours only
    o Church (?), Individual Lessons
    o Medical needs
    • Use credit card gas pumps
    • Glove and mask in crowds
    D. Resources:

    IV. Family Bug-In
    A. Definition: No exposure outside the home for Mom and Kids
    B. Threshold: Infection in (our part of home state)
    1. Indications
    C. Tasks:
    • No exposure except in the yard and neighborhood.
    • Use stored food
    • Dad goes to work and gas only
    • Decontaminate mail and packages
    D. Resources:

    V. Full Bug-In
    A. Definition: No exposure out of the home except back yard.
    B. Threshold: Infection in (Our City)
    1. Indications
    C. Tasks:
    • Use stored food and resources.
    • Set up watch rotation

    D. Resources:
    VI. Bug-Out
    A. Definition: Home becomes untenable
    B. Threshold: Safety situation trending toward to full collapse, both city and alternate water sources fail
    1. Indications
    C. Tasks:
    D. Resources:
    E.

  13. Napalm. Copious amounts of. Mix, kaboom, repeat.

  14. You’d be an idiot to believe what a stranger on the internet provides unsolicited. I get it, you don’t know me and you probably wouldn’t like me if you did. File the information as truth, propaganda, or outright lies- it won’t change the quality of my life whether or not you believe me. I do hope whatever decision you make helps inform your preps.

    I can only forward what a close friend who is there right now has reported.
    FWIW, I agree with the logic of the article. What evidence would you believe, though, short of going there yourself and running the medical tests?
    Given how easy it is to fabricate photos, wouldn’t that just be the new MacGuffin in the ‘they’re all lying to us about everything’ line of thought?

  15. the fukkn A-team

    http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/dr-craig-spencer-ebola-flu-hospital-food-nothing/

    Fatigue? 100.3 temperature? There are thousands of possible reasons for those symptoms.

    We do know the CDC favors the PCR test, which it ran on the Dallas “Ebola” patient. Again, it is unreliable, useless, and misleading.

    On top of this, Spencer was given a blood transfusion at Bellevue Hospital. Transfusions are immunosuppressive.

    Doctors made a big deal out of the fact that Spencer developed gastrointestinal symptoms after being admitted to an iso ward. They arbitrarily labeled these symptoms “the next phase of Ebola.”

    That is a fatuous diagnosis. Obviously, such symptoms can spring from a number of causes, not the least of which is hospital food.

    There is, however, a payoff for diagnosing Craig Spencer with Ebola. It gives credence to the cooked-up narrative about a “dangerous global epidemic” spreading from West Africa to other countries.

    That is the official storyline, and it must be repeated, over and over, by governments and public health agencies, no matter what.

  16. I don’t want to appear like I’m making a habit of busting your chops, but you seem like the type of guy I knew in the service who needed it periodically. Preventative Maintenance System, like.

    The only damn place that has more cellphones than North America is possibly Malayasia and that’s only because they build the damn things there.
    The reason that Africa, particularly the equatorial regions is called “the Dark Continent” is because there’s no electricy there to speak of. You get 2 miles from any “city” and it’s back to cowshit construction. There is no infrastructure to speak of.

    Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.

  17. Peace officer standards training.

  18. “POST” refers to Police Officer Standards Training, I believe.
    Nice.
    Nothing like adopting a part of the problem, as solution. Officer Friendly & whatnot.

    That aside, the reality of quarantine en masse ensures spread of disease, as non-infected are close quartered with those who are infected.
    If ya didn’t have it going in, you have it going out. Thinking that one through, no reasonable person with the means to resist will allow themselves to be quarantined with unknowns.

  19. Police Officer Standards and Training I.e. A full blown cop with arrest powers ….

  20. To the extent possible, those roadblocks should be set up on YOUR side of terrain “features” such as rivers, canals, swamps, or mountain passes. Even if those features are a couple of miles inside or outside of your county boundaries. A roadblock is worthless if it can be skirted, and there are a significant number of vehicles which can go offroad in a limited sense.

  21. Peace Officer Standards and Training

  22. So, what’s your point, exactly? Someone in the government is lying? No kidding.
    The reports are wholly constructed and no one is getting sick or dying?
    People are dying, but from something else?
    Why believe random facts from what’s being reported (for instance, ‘Spencer was given a blood transfusion’) if it’s all a great big fraud?

    Stop leaving us with bated breath. Reveal what’s really going on, please.

  23. the fukkn A-team

    http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/10/15/ebola-hoax-the-numbers-game/

    Manipulation.

    “If you control the information about case numbers, if you can inflate them and deflate them, you can control perception of a crisis. You can invent and un-invent the crisis.

    But wait. What about real numbers of people who have Ebola, who are dying from Ebola?

    The real numbers? First of all, in every so-called epidemic, most cases are diagnosed by “eyeball.” The patient has a few general symptoms that are flu-like, he’s been in a certain country…bang. He’s a case number.”

    “One of the most egregious examples of the game was exposed in October of 2009, by Sharyl Attkisson, who was working at CBS News. She revealed that, with tens of thousands of purported Swine Flu cases in the US, the CDC stopped counting cases altogether.

    The hidden reason? The overwhelming number of blood samples from the most likely Swine Flu patients, sent to labs for testing, were coming back negative for the Swine Flu virus, or any flu virus.

    Three weeks after Attkisson’s revelation, the CDC chiefs doubled down. They estimated there were 22 MILLION cases of Swine Flu in the US.

    Case closed.”

  24. Who is Mr. Frein?
    We all will be soon.
    CIII

  25. Libertarian Anonymous

    I’ll assume one of the infected people ate at the restaurant, that’s how the waitress caught it. However, the disease communicability scenario doesn’t seem to match observations. Ebola is claimed to be in sweat. If the disease was that communicable, wedding planner nurse and bowling doctor should have left a trail of hundreds infected behind them when they touched doorknobs, paper currency, etc. Ever had your hands covered with dirty grease after working on the car? You transfer it everywhere unless you walk around with your hands up in front of you like surgeons do.

    Real life is not a story. It is dangerous to make real life planning as an extrapolation from fiction, because the overriding requirement of fiction is to tell an entertaining tale, not to be accurate. Suppose the historical truth of King Henry V was boring, or did not have an emotionally satisfying conclusion: the king trips on a stone stairway and bonks his head and dies without regaining consciousness, leaving all of his plots hanging in mid-air in act two. Shakespeare would never have written an unsatisfying play. What story are you copying with your plans? Which author has channeled you down their plot?

    If you can get away with setting up roadblocks, then can you also get away with announcing a salvage claim for the abandoned hospital and taking ownership of it, decontaminating it, and operating a free market hospital? Can you move into all the unoccupied houses which are being held off the market by the banks? Can you collect a tractor from the road department? Can you homestead the government-owned land or one of the many, many government buildings? Can you stop paying taxes?

    Anonymous engineer is playing for the wrong team. Redneck roadblocks are just as evil as DEA checkpoints, it’s just a different set of humans being a government. All borders and other governmental barriers to free travel must be destroyed. That said, being contagious with plague disease is even more dangerous than horseplay with a gun in a public place. Make a website with the ID pictures of the endangered hospital workers and a last known exposed date. These workers should self-quarantine for 30 days. If they break quarantine they should be convicted of involuntary manslaughter and executed. This does not require checkpoints, which are just his personal control freak power fantasy. Maybe he’d use that opportunity to get all Nazi officer on the Jewish MILFs? I’m the TSA and I’m going to put my hand slowly down the front of your panties, do you like the feel of my latex gloves? You better make it good for me or I’ll seize all the belongings you’re traveling with for “destruction” and you won’t get out of this room for a month. We’ll have to inspect you every day (wink). Go watch some patrol car videos of LEOs doing cavity searches without changing gloves between victims, he wants to do it to everybody.

    What’s being quarantined is just physical transmission of viruses; quarantined people can stay on the telephone all day. If the healthcare workers run out of food at home because they didn’t prep, they can organize their own worldwide charity drives on the Internet from home. Maybe they can arrange to receive MREs airdropped from a small drone.

  26. the fukkn A-team

    two words. OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD.

    MURIKA!

  27. TFA and wife. Nice Job! I appreciate that because it helped clarify a bunch of stuff that’s been clanging around my head.

    I’m starting with gloved gas pumping today. It may freak some people out but who cares. A station that pumps a decent amount of gas every day has how many people touch the handle? They are almost NEVER wiped down. Little things like that.

    Also, as of now I’m not entering any major or medium cities until this is cleared. I haven’t had any plane travel in over a year and won’t.

  28. Peace Officer Standards Training.
    Think of it as a cop diploma.
    A POST-certified officer can go from town A to town or state B and not have to repeat the entire academy curriculum at the new place, on the theory that he’s already got a handle on the relevant basics.
    Now he just needs updating on the peculiarities of the local laws, and new agency’s policies, as opposed to weeks or months stuff he learned long ago and far away, which costs taxpayer $$ and wastes time he could be out writing tickets.

  29. outlawpatriot

    Make no mistake, I don’t know that we now or will have an Ebola problem in this country. If I was pickin’ right this second I would say no. But I do fully comprehend the threat with all it’s ramifications. I’ve also learned a lot from the vocal minority that is doing it’s damnedest to talk the gig into existence. While it’s gonna be amusing to watch those who put their whole tallywhacker out there twist in the wind if the gig doesn’t come to fruition I will admittedly breathe a sigh of relief if that is the case. A heavy sigh of relief. With a grin however you understand.

    That being said, if this thing really could be the scourge of the millennium and it really does have the potential to kill Americans by the bushel, should we not be going proactive instead of more endless discussion about reactive prepping to another threat? I would submit that if it’s as bad as Aesop et al has iterated, then some motherfucker just put a gun to our heads. All the other crap to date pales in comparison. And that motherfucker should be dealt with.

    Once upon a time a certain British major issued an ultimatum to a group of Americans that if they did not “desist from their opposition to the British army, and take protection under his standard, he would march his army over the mountains, hang their leaders, and lay their country waste with fire and sword.” As a result, roughly 1900 men saddled up, humped about 600 miles from Tennessee to South Carolina in cold, wet weather, caught the bastard on top of a hill called King’s Mountain, then killed and buried his ass there.

    But, those guys were quintessential preppers and survivalists. They even took uttered threats seriously and acted accordingly.

    Now imagine one of your kids catches the Ebola? How you gonna act considering that some person or persons allowed deliberately or stupidly that “threat” into the country?

    Reactive or proactive?

  30. Improvisational biological warfare against one’s political enemies.

    I would call that a casual belli.

    And with a weapon of mass destruction no less.

  31. CA, did you know Alex Jones posts here?

  32. Usually naked and overwrought.

  33. Mortality rate of infected Americans in America: 0%.

    You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

  34. Jimmy the Saint

    Maybe West Africans aren’t hipsters and don’t feel the urge to take Ebola selfies. Perhaps they’d rather just get on with expiring.

  35. Jimmy the Saint

    ” 00 buckshot for those it doesn’t scare off.”

    Shooting potentially Ebola-infected people at short range with a shotgun? That creates almost as many problems as it solves.

  36. TFA303– I’m in Dallas. Like five miles from Presbyterian Hospital Dallas and a mile from the second nurse who allegedly got ebola from Mr. Duncan and has now recovered. According to your phases, I would be in phase V and no one in my family would leave the house for any reason. Does anyone else here think that is incredibly insane?

  37. Jimmy the Saint

    In scenario 2, I change my name to Larry Underwood, write a hit single called “Baby, Can You Dig Your Man,” and then set off for Kansas.

  38. And he wonders why none of his methbilly white trash neighbors will “follow” him. Guess their standards are too steep!

  39. Don’t forget skipping out on your cocaine debt

  40. My scenario

    My facts for the purpose of the exercise

    I agree with you re present situation

  41. Dust with buck at 30 meters

  42. See you there. Please kill Nadine with a shovel on your way there.

  43. http://www.technologyreview.com/view/519041/how-cell-phones-are-transforming-health-care-in-africa/

    “Nigeria alone has gone from a nation of just 30,000 cell subscriptions in 2000 to more than 140 million today, or roughly 87 percent penetration.”

    http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/africa-has-more-mobile-phone-users-than-the-us-or-eu/

    “Africa now has more than 650 million mobile phone subscribers. That’s more than either the United States or the European Union. “

  44. The better question is:

    Who turned Kentucky Officer Jason Ellis into a good cop?

    THAT is who we should aspire to be. Mr. Frein is a rank amateur in comparison…

  45. For those attempting #1 into the 9L, EL, 3X areas, 12m and 15m will be your best bet, late afternoons in CONUS. (There are plenty of fluke times that can randomly occur for the “don’t have a life” crowd in the early CONUS AM, but not too predictable in terms of odds.) If you’re running 100w (or less) and only have voice capabilities all I can say is Vaya con Dios and best of luck. Those with some Morse skills, the original “digital”, the world’s your oyster.

  46. Cell phones – not feature phones, not smart phones.
    How many of those phones with cameras?
    Two different things.

  47. OMG libertarian managed to get rednecks, nazis, Jews, and MILFs into a single post! Failing to realize that human nature being what it is libertarian approaches to a plague will just end up getting lots of folks dead.

    One of the major failings of pure libertarianism is that it presupposes rational players who have the good of society in mind when they perform an action.

    In a situation like this human nature being what it is people will lie, cheat, steal, etc just like Duncan did. Because you have to be alive to suffer the negative consequences of spreading an illness.

  48. the fukkn A-team

    Why would I want methbilly neighbors to “follow” me? I tried to educate some of murikas poor scum and I failed. They can all go to hell for all I care and I’m sure they will. Honestly, all of my friends still work down in the metro-Detroit area, and I’m up in my northern retreat after retiring 25 years earlier than they will. I hear poverty sucks…

  49. FrozenPatriot

    I grabbed historical data from Wikipedia and WHO and plotted it myself. Switching to a logarithmic scale gives a bit more insight:

    http://bit.ly/1wdMzgG

    Feel free to spread far and wide…

  50. Marlo Stanfield

    Prepare deep square type holes now with borrowed back hoe. Call them duck blinds and that you ran low on funds to complete. Hell put plywood lids on them along with some twigs and stuff, put out some decoys. Try to dig where you won’t be noticed. People get nosey. It goes without saying don’t do this in a straight line like a grave yard. Have some Temp working at Home Depot or some place get some Drain Cleaner in barrel size. (Don’t pull a Walter White and a Jessie Pinkman) Use the hand trucks. As Joe Pesci said in one of the mob movies you could be out there all night. (Something like that)

  51. (2) is conceptually easy, but tactically requires a little coordination.

    a) Gather like minded citizens to form a medical militia.
    b) Said militia declares the hospial a containment facility.
    c) The first attempt to leave the facility by anyone is just summarily shot. It won’t take but a couple of repeats of that to get the point across.
    d) Rotation schedule assigned that nothing leaves that facility for 40 days.

    But I am afraid that does not solve the problem. Once Ebola finds a safe haven in native wildlife we are destined to forevermore play whack-a-mole with the disease.

  52. Have 21 days passed since Dr Ebowla went skipping around Manhattan to eat, drink, and be merry? Didn’t think so.

    Arrogance and ineptitude are fatal when combined with contagious, hemorrhagic fevers that make you defecate your own intestines. We are short on the latter and long on the former in the USSA. That can be reversed easily with the current people “in charge.”

  53. outlawpatriot

    Aaaand… We kick off when? Can we dispense with any further discussion? Or do we have to dissect every nuance to the point of absurdity?

    Just askin’.

  54. the fukkn A-team

    OK consider this scenario…

    “The American media is intent on promoting the Ebola hype as a prelude to installing complete medical martial law. Nothing can be allowed to break the concentration of news reports designed to promote an obsessional fear regarding the spread of Ebola with the goal of placing the U.S. under medical martial law. Martial law, in the U.S., is a prerequisite condition in order to force America to accept the coming world war. Therefore, the preconditions which will plunge the nations of the planet into World War III will go largely under-reported in the United States until the last moment.”

    http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/10/29/putins-energy-embargo-against-europe-will-lead-to-ww-iii-before-the-end-of-the-year/

  55. Libertarian Anonymous

    In a situation like this human nature being what it is people will lie, cheat, steal, etc just like Duncan did.

    Right, that’s why I wrote “If they break quarantine they should be convicted of involuntary manslaughter and executed.”. I’m not sure what this “pure libertarianism” thing is you’re objecting to, but it doesn’t appear to be the thing I wrote.

  56. Good point, and this is why we’re having these discussions, I think. I appreciate you offering a close-up perspective.

    It’s a risk-v-cost assessment. How comfortable are you that nobody in your daily routine is infected? When does that tip over to “no longer comfortable”?

  57. Thought For Yourself, you did. Attaboy.

  58. Just as soon as anyone cares to. Thing is, amigo – it’s the same as a bar fight. You wants to makes sure that you can both start…and end on your terms. Ain’t no one with the power to charge straight ahead at the Leviathan and win right now.

    The edge cases….ah – there’s the rub.

  59. Can you write up a little more detail (e.g., explain why the log scale gives more insight) so that I can make a standalone post?

    Include also why the skepticism assigned generally to straight-line extrapolations is not warranted here.

    Many thanks.

  60. Crap on a cracker, CA, you didn’t give a small exercise. This will take me a bit to work out. I will try to post my solution here, if too large I will send to CA, he can dropbox it or whatever. Critiques will be welcome; MD does not equal omniscient.

    I would recommend to all to chew through this, and take notes. It is an open book test, BTW, since CA was kind enough to link to two very helpful documents.
    For additional cheats, please see the MSF Ebola/Marburg guidelines:
    http://www.slamviweb.org/es/ebola/FHFfinal.pdf
    As well as MSF’s public health guidelines.
    http://refbooks.msf.org/msf_docs/en/public_health_en.pdf

    There are, however, significant topics not covered in these guidelines. They all assume a helpful, or at least non-homicidal, population. Our exercise may include a variety of folk that do not really agree with our actions, and I suppose we should add to the tasks the likelihood of those people engaging in sabotage and/or informing on us to outside agents.

    I’d have to defer to the defensive experts among us to know the specifics of roadblocks, etc. I have read Max Velocity’s fiction book but not the actual handbook; I have read a Failure of Civility, and will assume that those principles apply. I also recall a series by the Lizard Farmer a while back, which was a case study in establishing defenses, and included roadblock construction.

    I’m pretty sure I can come up with a public safety advisories. Whether or not anyone will listen is a different topic.

    Folks, stay focused, and don’t be distracted by the scantily-clad conspiracy theory jaunting by in her dainties.

  61. got this from my cousin Mary… a little off topic…. fits just right

    Angelo

  62. A friend’s husband just had a semi major accident and spent 7+ hours in the emergency room. They didn’t even do the fundamentals, like clean the wounds or give him a complete examination. The reason was lack of resources. I should point out at this point that this is a major hospital, the 2nd largest in a large metro area of over 1m people.

    Now let’s think about what Aesop and others have been trying to tell us. Yes, the disease is very bad, but the strain on the system will be far worse, with even a few cases collapsing it, and not just medically either. The key workers in utilities, fire, infrastructure, and security are likely to stay home as well.

    No, I don’t think that Ebola is a government false flag as I can see no upside to them and a lot of downside. What I do think is that they, in their arrogance, complete stupidity, and pure evil souls, believe it to be an acceptable risk in order for them to accomplish their goals of wide open borders allowing every illegal to come into the FUSA, thus allowing them to get their dictatorship, based on a massive dependent class.

    As far as my plans, I’m going with the Dilbert plan. 😉

  63. Got it.

    Roadblocks bad because free travel is good, but quarantine with ad hoc execution good.
    Because one is anti-freedom, and the other is…wait, what?

    Back to the drawing board there, pard..

  64. the fukkn A-team

    EBOLA is a BIG LIE

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/ebola-is-big-lie.html

    The Ebola hype has all the colors of another Washington-made false flag operation.

    Ebola is man-made, ‘controllable’ and spreadable – if hyped up. A scared and ignorant population including in our western cities can easily be manipulated into accepting a vaccine, no matter how effective it is in stopping the disease, or alternatively, how effective it is in spreading it. The idea is subduing, then clamping-down on the population, putting people into quarantines (prisons), to make sure no upheavals occur. Western elite, led by Washington and duly followed by its European puppets and vassals throughout the world – may then quietly go about their business in the final stage to take over the world – the One World Order – Full Spectrum Dominance, the fulfillment of the PNAC – Plan for a New American Century – which is being implemented as these lines are written, but hardly anybody notices.

    People beware! We are about at the same point as with H1N1 – media hype to the point of psychosis, people’s short-lived memories, panicking and a total clamp-down is easy – no large military expenditures, since the few protestors can easily be subdued. – And I don’t dare thinking what else can be done with them.

  65. So far.

    Otherwise, the reductio ad absurdum is that “Ebola is non-fatal, because the statistics prove it!”

    Parachute failures never killed anyone either.
    The landings afterward, however, are a cast-iron bitch on mortality stats.

  66. It’s been a while since I did a lot of semilog graphs, but isn’t the red line on your graph drawn at about 8.125 billion and not 7.125 billion (log scale goes from 1 to 10, no zeros)?

  67. I have an ironclad rule to get the pants-soiling completed early in the process.

    That way, I can claim at least one success.

  68. Sadly, Doc, I tried to keep the exercise’s fact set pretty real. Folks that don’t have terrain and fellow like-mindeds on their side are gonna be in deep doo.

    Don’t sweat the tactical stuff; we’ve got people on the kill people/break shit side. Where you come in is on the “do no harm wherever possible/preserve life/reduce suffering/dispose of the aftermath safely” playbook. Appreciate the time you have already given us.

  69. the fukkn A-team

    http://fluboard.rhizalabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12837

    ‘Liberia has long been a focal point of the Ebola epidemic, the nation with the most cases and deaths from the disease, prompting a global call to action. Hundreds of new beds have been added in recent weeks, but now many are going unfilled even before any of the 18 treatment centers being built by the American military have opened, leaving many officials here confounded.

    Some are debating whether the World Health Organization’s dire warnings about the epidemic — that there could be as many as 10,000 new cases each week in West Africa by December, about 10 times the rate it recently reported — might be grossly inflated.”

  70. Libertarian Anonymous

    Roadblocks bad because free travel is good, but quarantine with ad hoc execution good.

    Correct, that is what I intended to communicate.

    Roadblocks bad because it forces everyone, and policywise it’s open-ended because once you are in the cattle chute they can add unrelated things to inspect you about.

    Quarantine in manner of maybe-sick’s choosing good, because it only forces the maybe-sick, not everyone, and it retains the maximum amount of remaining liberty for the maybe-sick.

    Execution of convicted quarantine-evaders forces quarantine to be done. This achieves stated infection-reduction purpose of roadblock, but without roadblock.

  71. Libertarian Anonymous

    What I require is that other people not throw bullets or virus particles at me. How they achieve that result is both not my problem and none of my business.

  72. How does that work with a four-lane highway?

  73. When I saw how long my answer was, I turned it into a blogpost:
    http://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2014/10/logarithmic-growth-101.html

  74. the fukkn A-team

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/10/28/383971/us-uses-ebola-guise-to-penetrate-africa/

    “Recently, more experts have said that the Ebola virus is a genetically modified organism and was developed in US bio-warfare laboratories in West Africa.

    In a recent interview, Dr. Francis Boyle of the University of Illinois said, “My opinion is that the origins of the current pandemic came out of the USA bio-warfare labs in West Africa.”

    He added that the US has been “using West Africa as an offshore to circumvent the Convention on Biological Weapons and do bio-warfare work.”

  75. Conviction means you have an operating jail and justice system. Gives plenty of chances to spread the disease especially in jail. Notice though the roadblocks are to keep external threats out … Once you have established your baseline infection free population, you now can actually control the virus. And let those who are infection free roam as they want while controlling access to those who do have the disease.

    I did say up front once you expand your responsibility to the community at large it becomes very hard very fast.

    Your libertarian rants about nazis I’ll ignore.

    The key is information and isolation. Isolate until you know who has the virus and then isolate those with the virus. And like it or not people will lie cheat steal etc to get medical care that might save them. Just like Duncan. Involuntary manslaughter is a hell of a lot better than death.

  76. This is why facilities like a nursing home or motel are used. Isolation within the facility itself. No quarantine with unknowns. Merely a few weeks in a motel room or studio apartment. Next door could be infected and if what we know about the disease spread is correct then you are fine. Workers are in PPE …

  77. Libertarian Anonymous

    I didn’t follow that, could you say that again with more detail?

  78. took the cat to the vet yesterday, but it tuned out to be his usual kidney infection. Not Ebola. So it’s either pandemic by 1 January, or we keelhaul Aesop the Panicmonger

  79. Fourth doorman of the apocalypse

    That 95% ethanol ingredient in the WHO document is too precious to be used to make hand wash!

    Besides, where in the states can you get 95% ethanol solutions? Is Vodka good enough?

  80. What you fail to understand is that Americans are much, much more healthy than Africans. That is why this isn’t worse than the flu.

    Virology isn’t your strong point CA. I suggest your drop the chicken little shtick and go back to interesting stories.

  81. FrozenPatriot

    Will do. Watch for it tomorrow…

  82. “What I require is that other people not throw bullets or virus particles at me. How they achieve that result is both not my problem and none of my business.”

    Pithy and complete. But how will the Rulers find work?

    Aesop, I commend you on the remarkable work you’ve done, but stuff like this is why the rational team engages division of labor.

  83. Ebolanotahoax

    http://ph.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A2oKmK9QEFJU1iUAs4PoH4pQ?p=liberia+ebola+photos&fr=ipad&fr2=piv-web

    Liberia Ebola photos… You say it is a hoax cause you won’t do a simple image search???

    Check… And mate….

  84. FrozenPatriot

    Lost dog,
    Good catch, you are correct. It turned out to be a problem with excel. When I changed the scale to make the screenshot smaller, the pencilled-in red line was shifted slightlly. (Side note: a few pixels equaling a billion people on a pandemic graph is a bit discomforting…)
    The intersection point (July 4th, 2016), an admittedly significant extrapolation, was determined analytically elsewhere and remains the game over date of the current trend line.

  85. Yeah and how many of those are burner phones only used a few times then trashed, you know Muslim terrorists and all….

  86. Look I am very much a libertarian, but how do you catch the people not self-quarantining if you can’t monitor travel around their homes? Arbitrary road blocks for non-crimes are anti liberty, however asking someone to stop and checking them for signs of sickness, or Identifying the folks who are supposed to be quarantined is not an invasion of liberty. Its ensuring that those who are infringing on the rightful liberty of others by spreading infectious diseases are not allowed to continue that infringement.

    Ebola Barbie up in Maine is a perfect example. As long as she stays on her property and does not attempt to potentially infect anyone else then she can do what she wants. When she callously decides to go for a Whataburger then she needs to be detained and forcibly quarantined until she proves to be virus free.

  87. I am right there with you on this one OP. I just don’t see this thing turning into a Ebolazombie nightmare. I have a habit of watching the magicians hands real close when he’s doing his tricks. I may not see how he does everything but I know he’s up to something. I get that distinct impression with this. I keep thinking back to those stories of Government ammo purchases, Government purchasing all the freeze dried meals, Shortages of IV fluids, the insistence on having these infected people come here…by the prickling in my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. I think we need more evidence but its really starting to look like the powers that be are in the end game and we are still putting on our jocks.

  88. You could always start your own blog and post things that interest you yourself, there. On your own blog.

    Bad manners, this isn’t your house, son. Take off your shoes if your asked and don’t be going through the underwear drawers

  89. Right.
    All of which is both internally and externally inconsistent and arbitrary.

    Best wishes trying to implement.
    I suspect that understanding of force, applied to human motivations and behavior, is going to get anyone adhering to it strung up as a cancer on the community by about Tuesday noon of such a problem, if not sooner, or just engender a well-aimed shot to the head from distance. Same end result either way.

    A roadblock performs the same thing as a quarantine: it keeps maybe-infected people out of a AO, in the same way that a quarantine keeps maybe-infected people inside their own house. Both serve the community and common sense, provided they’re adopted on that basis.

    You can have both, or neither, at your ideological whim, but you can’t logically have only one, unless you’re trying to insure the spread of any notional contagion.

    And summary executions, with due process via gun barrel for violators might* work for those outside trying to get in, but if you try it on those inside wandering out, say on 14 year-old Tom trying go see Susie down the block, unless you’re going to do the whole family too on the spot, in short order you’ll find yourself swinging under a light pole wondering why the crowd turned on you and disrespected your authoritay. Live by the mob, die by the mob.

    *And if the outside people you elect to shoot up straggle back to their group, who takes offense, you may find out that you’re not the biggest dog on the block after all when they decide to come explain things to you. Nations get this. Little groups of partisans, however well-intentioned, not so much.

    This sort of domestic and foreign policy is, by no coincidence, exactly what all government in recorded history has been formulated to deal with, going back to Greek city-states and beyond. One ignores all those earlier lessons at their peril.

    And when you belatedly realize that the people whose kinfolk you’ve been cheerfully summarily executing are going to form the bulk of your external defenses (or pointedly for you, not), it’ll be too late to tell them you’re sorry.

    I can understand a sensible family where the parents apply corporal punishment. But death penalty for misbehavior is rightly seen as beyond the pale except by crazy people. It’s the same with communities: once your “rule” is seen as a bigger threat to people’s existence than even naked anarchy, the ropes will come out, and the fraggings and midnight throat-slittings will commence.

    Robin Hood, Robbespierre, and most of Afghanistan say “Hi”.

  90. the fukkn A-team

    Whatever. I just think you folks in the 99% have the attention span of one of my peacocks. Ebola a distraction from the total take-over of FUSA. You all are about to be punk’d and you’re worried about this shit. The fear mongers are not doing FreeFor any favors by beating this drum. No wonder most murikins work their whole lives and are always broke. Reminds me of the employees I once took care of. lol Too funny.

  91. Actually Jim, it’s why the Soviet* team engages in division of labor.
    The model here is that everyone is part of the ruling body, both by custom and deliberate design.

    And L.A., if how they achieve such results is “not your problem or business” then you aren’t going to be enforcing any summary executions for breaking quarantine, now are you?
    You’ll be too busy minding your own business, and any fire directed at quarantine breakers’ houses will be returned by same with a smile, on the same grounds.

    So it’s a “virtual” quarantine now?

    And the quarantine breaker with the largest family group and most weapons will now be the New Boss?

    *as shorthand for “every ruling class” society in history.
    They are notably never rational, nor successful.
    But you see yourself as a better fit for that function, Jim?

  92. I think there’s a little confusion about roadblocks. Any defensive measures for any particular “tribe” are justified, period. But as you said eloquently, “…once you expand your responsibility to the community at large it becomes very hard very fast.”

    Not to mention unachievable and likely immoral. Reality will sort out the rational from the irrational. This battle has ALWAYS been Individualism versus Collectivism. No crisis can possibly change that, no matter how many Collectivists or statists wish otherwise. Sorry Aesop, but I hope you keep pluggin’ away with the facts anyway. As today’s banner implies, the identification of facts is always a good deed.

  93. Right, because I predicted that there will be a pandemic by January 1…oh, wait, nowhere and never. Great troll, but a tragic Information Fail.

    Shouldn’t you be issuing another All Clear on this disease about now? It’s been a few days since the last one, and its a slow news day so far…

    But at least your cat doesn’t have Ebola, so it wasn’t a total loss.

  94. Sensible, G…looks right to me. Some of fukknATeam’s stuff is overload for my simple mind, but the quote above–10/29@20:19–looks spot-on to me. And this–“prelude to installing complete medical martial law”–I can personally attest to.

    If you look at it from the asshole’s perspective, it’s one of their smarter strategies. It’s a terrific distraction from all the relevant principles, which of course never change on their own.

    Plus, it keeps happening that truth is stranger than fiction.

    Op, I agree with nearly everything you’ve written on the topic. I can hardly wait till you figure out the “why” of it all. Hey, it’ll give us something to discuss when you come up here to protect yourself if this comes to pass. 300 yards ain’t gonna help you with any virus. Well, maybe…

  95. Everclear? Moonshine?

  96. Someone not scared by a “Quarantine” sign might indeed already be infected. That is true.

    “Aesop” put it best, Viking funeral on the spot with 87 Octane.

  97. “Folks, stay focused, and don’t be distracted by the scantily-clad conspiracy theory jaunting by in her dainties.”

    It’s pretty wild stuff alright, but then so have been most of the facts. Personally I think we’d all be better served by aiming at the messages rather than the messengers. That can be tough on philosophical matters, since the message inevitably manifests as a messenger. Still, it’s worth trying.

  98. “Actually Jim, it’s why the Soviet team engages in division of labor.”

    Gotta love cute. You work on the HVACs at the hospital too?

    “The model here is that everyone is part of the ruling body, both by custom and deliberate design.”

    Actually Aesop, the model here was that there would be no ruling body. Try either the DoI or BoR for clarification. I guess according to you, the big change was from “King” to “President.” That’s interesting alright, but false.

  99. the fukkn A-team

    I know with the flouride, alcohol, drugs, crap food, dumbing-down, and the intense brain-washing the 99% have been subjected to, they have a hard time focusing on reality…

    http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/10/30/fema-camp-mass-incarceration-is-a-goal-of-the-ebola-crisis/

    “Before one can “legally” transport Ebola patients to “death camps” and await the inevitable, the public must be reassured that the rule of law is being followed.

    When Ebola strikes, the changes in the handling of Ebola patients have already been planned for through a series of legal actions, most of them are Executive Orders. For example, the Executive Order, entitled Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases, amends Executive Order 13295, passed by George W. Bush in April 2003, which allows for the, “apprehension, detention, or conditional release of individuals”, and Ebola is specifically mentioned. Obama’s executive order, entitled, Revised List of Quarantinable Communicable Diseases, amends Bush’s Executive Order 13295, which allows for the, “apprehension, detention, or conditional release of individuals to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of suspected communicable diseases.”

    Obama has granted his administration the authority to detain, in any manner deemed necessary, any person who demonstrates any degree of respiratory distress. This means people with noninfectious asthma could be detained.

    The CDC has greatly expanded guidelines which permit the government to quarantine people with “fatigue” and lists this as a potential Ebola symptom. Anyone THOUGHT to be exposed to an Ebola patient can be quarantined. CDC has opened themselves up to the likelihood that Ebola can be transmitted even from people who are not presently symptomatic at the time of transmission. This goes hand in hand with present CDC measures that allow for the quarantine of non-symptomatic persons.”

  100. the fukkn A-team

    I don’t expect anyone to think like me, after all, seriously, I’m in the 1%. Doctors, nurses, lawyers, whatever- all peasants working for the man. When I need you (but I won’t) I’ll write a check or wave cash and you will fight over yourselves who gets the job. FACT.

  101. I watch all threats and try to discern risk levels based on available intel, which is sketchy as fck for me. I’m willing to say fkkn A team might be right on the Ebola here in the states (and I’ve been hawking the hell out of Ebola for a while). So what would be to gain for old Franklin Marshall and his elderberries on this project?

    1. Group messaging:
    A. Be afraid, be very afraid.
    (We need you scared shitless you’re more malleable in that condition.)

    B. There are crazy people everywhere doing crazy things that could spread this disease EVERYWHERE. Examples: Duncan, Vinson, CDC Writ(ebol), Spencer etc.
    (Jesus, somebody needs to stop this insanity and clamp down on people before we all catch it).<—-You should be hearing a bell tolling about now, it's your freedom screaming save me.

    C. We must stop "lone wolves", "bad actors", "crazy douche nurses" etc etc. Exhibit A Kaci Hickox (We simply need to give govt everywhere the power to shoot or rase these nut jobs intent on spreading Ebola.)

    Look I'm doing everything I can to prepare either way because the noise level prevents active accurate analysis. Which is the intent of our feral government and lords n ladies.

  102. Libertarian Anonymous

    how do you catch the people not self-quarantining if you can’t monitor travel around their homes?

    Put a parole tracking ankle bracelet on the quarantined person. The assumption that the good guys have guns and cars but no Internet is not part of the scenario, it was a story plot line from the Rawls books. I didn’t say you shouldn’t monitor travel around individual quarantine homes, I said you shouldn’t monitor the entire population with roadblock checkpoints.

    however asking someone to stop and checking them for signs of sickness, or Identifying the folks who are supposed to be quarantined is not an invasion of liberty. Its ensuring that those who are infringing on the rightful liberty of others by spreading infectious diseases are not allowed to continue that infringement.

    You want to inspect for disease, but some other guy wants to inspect for drugs, she for the children, he for Muslims, and you’re going to majority vote to decide what details to inspect for. That’s how we got here. You want to build a FEMA camp and put yourself inside. You want this because you believe Socialism will work if only the right people are in charge. Yes?

  103. Gotcha, Jim.
    I’ll just scratch out all the places in the DoI and BoR where “the People” appears, since according to you, they don’t exist as an entity.

    The definition of “no ruling body” is anarchy.
    Adherence to that model is rightly described as Anarchism.

    Again, best wishes on implementation, let alone during a notional epidemic/pandemic.

    IIRC, it started failing when Thag and his friend got together to take Og’s berry bush, (long before the Greeks perfected the phalanx), and it took off like gangbusters when Thag & Co. started mass-producing and storing berries, and their clan thus survived the Famine Year, when other tribes didn’t.

    But you’re welcome to try and revive the idea, with predictable results. The phrase “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short” comes to mind.

  104. Libertarian Anonymous

    And the quarantine breaker with the largest family group and most weapons will now be the New Boss?

    These family groups call themselves “royalty”; but count the number of rifles on each side of that battle. Elites control one soldier to every 100 or more citizens, and therefore can’t militarily impose any result onto the subject population.

    Instead, most of the subject population voluntarily chooses to submit, to reject their birthright of agency as human beings because they’re terrified of liberty. This situation is non-human animals is called domestication. These people with little moral courage serve as informers to snitch on the libertarians, which is where the extra military power comes from to control the freethinkers who want liberty.

    Fast forward to today. We’re having a political conversation, but we’re not doing it in a bar. You can’t see my face, you don’t know my name or my location, you can’t ruin my life. That means the snitching no longer works.

    The civil rights blacks attained freedom at the moment when the Deacons stalemated the KKK/LEO, not when JFK came by later and took credit for it. By breaking the snitching I have gained a large measure of freedom, yet there hasn’t been a single “law” changed and won’t be until afterwards.

  105. “Any defensive measures for any particular “tribe” are justified, period.” – said every dictator, crime boss, and cult-leading whackjob in human history.
    You just Godwin’ed yourself, unassisted. Own goal.

  106. Have you ever considered that the only way to import a deadly viral outbreak, whether naturally occurring or born in a petri dish, is by having first achieved a “total take over of FUSA” in the first place, and is just as deadly, sans, and perhaps in spite of, prudent precautions to mitigate progressive stages of an incredibly ugly disease, in the second?

    Let’s review, shall we? “They” have contrived a total failure of border protection, a near total control of all media, statutory control of the medical system, control or override of the Legislative Branch, the Judicial Branch, the military industrial complex, absolute control of the Administrative Branch, and the entire monetary policy to fund all the control mechanisms desired.

    For the Love of God, please find a better argument than…”This is a hoax, based on my internet research and the opinions of folks I don’t know any better than I know you panty wetting patriots.”

    Who knows? The life you save may be your own.

    Consider for a moment the lives of those in your sphere of influence. Are you willing to gamble their lives based upon faulty or incomplete logic, and the work of others, effective only because you can deliver that argument in higher decibels than those around you?

    That is a total failure, by the way…the inability to protect those who depend upon you for protection…and if you represent that kind of danger to yours, why should I consider your argument valid, when considering what I need to do for mine?

    I could cut and paste this Q and A to the CDC…as a purveyor of .gov policy which represents just as much, a clear and present danger to me, mine, and those around me and mine.

    Please…let us get to task at hand…obtaining real information from real people on the ground, as much as possible, and putting workable plans in place to avoid any potential exposure from the outset…as much as is possible.

  107. Let’s all “stay focused” on eblo-me. Because that’s all we have to concern ourselves with. I would think it better to complete any preps you need to and let the so-called medical experts “stay focused” on the distraction. Good hunting.

  108. outlawpatriot

    He gotcha Jimmy! 😀

  109. outlawpatriot

    Striiiiike two! 😀

  110. FAT:

    NO HIDING BEHIND ALTERNATE SCREEN NAMES

  111. NightWatcher

    Body disposal will be a big problem. A search of the energy requirement to cremate a body revealed that a 70Kg body will require 100MJ of energy to vaporize the water content (the rest will burn on its own).

    In wood burning crematoria, it uses about 100Kg of wood. An open fire will likely require an order of magnitude more (i.e. 1000Kg) given the inherent thermal inefficiency.

    Even digging a hole will require a couple of man-days labor or a couple of gallons of diesel fuel, both of which may be in very short supply.

    A gallon of 87-octane isn’t going to accomplish much except for some charring.

  112. You okay? I worry about you. Now you’re hallucinating.

    I’m not taking it up with Aesop for now; he deserves extreme leeway for the work he’s doing. When the time comes, I’m sure you and he will have a Grand Plan for imposing Rightful Liberty all the world over. Oh wait…now I’m hallucinating.

  113. Check and cash? Don’t kid yourself; most of the folk around here already have firestarter. Nobody knows the details, but it’s certain that a different world will be…well, different.

    Now op and Aesop–and others too–think it’ll be just like now, but with the right guys in charge. Brings to mind the phrase, “rude awakening.” No doubt the Tories believed the same in 1775.

  114. Ebolanotahoax

    Have you ever considered that Øbola is real, and that there is a strong possibility that it is deliberate? We have a imminent dollar crash, massive debt situation, and all signs say it is coming fast. Crude oil prices took a big dive lower just as before the 2008 crash. The other hand isn’t martial law, it’s the economy stupid.

    Think about these scenarios. I’m not foart of the A team conspiracy theory guy who asserts the gs as facts but I will entertain probabilities.

    WW3 to cause major economic recovery? How bout Ebola instead?

    NSA spy center in Utah? What if it is not just for spyig but as a sort of “all the worlds knowledge in one place” after a giant pandemic wipes out a large portion of the population?

    Do you see A team? When one makes unqualified statements they should be punctuated with a question mark. (?)

  115. outlawpatriot

    James, you’re a hopeless anarchist. You and your buddy Buppert. The fact that you even attempt to find cover in our founding documents is nothing short of, well, contemptible. Even Buppert makes no effort in that respect. You shouldn’t either. Just accept what the fuck you are. It doesn’t make you a bad person. It just means that at a certain juncture you will need to remain very quiet.

    Your friend,

    Alan

  116. NightWatcher

    Not to mention the lack of a robust digital network. This part of Africa doesn’t reflect Nigeria, much less Egypt or South Africa. If you want to make a call in Liberia, you best have a sat phone.

  117. poor Aesop. He cranked out all his erudite gibberish…por nada. And – except for what we’ve seen so far, a few local cases and clusters – I will now issue the all “ALL CLEAR!!!”. All who took to the lifeboats may now return to the USS Titanic

  118. for those interested, here are the relevant call prefixes from
    here: http://www.dxing.com/CallSign.pdf

    Liberia- D5A-Z and 6ZA-Z (i.e. D5xx(x) or 6Zxx(x) would be a Liberian station)
    Mali – TZA-Z
    Benin- TYA-Z
    Ivory Coast – TUA-Z
    Burkina Faso – XTA-Z
    Guinea-Bisseau J5A-Z
    Niger 5UA-Z
    Senegal 6VA-Z
    Sierra Leone – 9LA-Z

    Liberia was probably the easiest of those to get but I have not seen any of these spotted since the recent DXpedition to Benin, TY1AA. I use both http://www.DXWatch.com and DXSummit. http://www.dxsummit.fi/

  119. Libertarian Anonymous

    Any defensive measures for any particular “tribe” are justified, period.

    I don’t consent to being a member of any tribe that wants roadblocks. Any tribe that ignores my consent is merely a protection racket. Being born on the same continent as a tribal headquarters doesn’t make me a slave owned by those tribal elders, any more than being born with black skin does.

    Notice though the roadblocks are to keep external threats out

    The purpose of an iron curtain of transportation roadblocks is to keep the victims of the elites suppressed and contained inside the prison. It ruins their competing logistics supplied through the free market. Blockading trade is an act of war, always and everywhere, and it still was when the Americans blockaded the Japanese trade in oil.

    Your libertarian rants about nazis I’ll ignore.

    Today there are TSA gateraping child molesters and LEO roadside cavity searches for drug non-crimes. Rachet up the power concentration one more notch and you will be in the range of the historical German experience. You are calling for actual Nazi officers and Jewish MILFs. Why you want this I don’t understand, but I believe the legal term for that mindset is “depraved indifference”.

  120. Libertarian Anonymous

    How about a city’s sewer treatment system? Whole lotta sick people put a whole lot of infectious organisms into that. Rarely hear about a treatment failure, like when tomatoes fertilized by human sewer sludge cause a recall.

  121. Many of these countries have few indigenous operators; many licenses are purchased by foreign amateur operators seeking to be the “Rare DX” that everyone is chasing. Given the situation, I expect this activity to be significantly reduced.

  122. Wise cave owl:

    Why new handle?

  123. You may go back to posting Hilldabeast pics now.

  124. the fukkn A-team

    Jim. you’re an exception. I offered you cash and you adamantly refused it. Thanks for the help buddy. I owe you. You’re welcome at my humble home anytime.

    As for the future… You can bet the farm there will still be a form of fiat wealth to trade. The world bankers are way ahead of this game. OTOH, I’m sitting pretty on everything… including hardware and PMs-all types.

  125. the fukkn A-team

    If you actually looked at what I posted, it all had “quotation” marks around it and links to the authors, one of which is a statistical professor by the name of Dave Hodges. The guy is an professional analyst and is bonafide -unlike you. None of it matters anyway. You are either going to survive this nightmare or you won’t. I myself have nearly a half a dozen years experience as a trained combat infantryman along with an Instructor certification, I have also took it upon myself to delve into tactical combat casualty care along with purchasing everything under the sun to support these skills.. I spend hours and hours everyday researching world, financial, and historical events to round out my understanding of what we are all being subjected to. My conclusion is that the whole thing is about to go bang or boom. So ebola is a mere stage prop at this point. Have a nice day.

  126. I agree that in general Americans are better nourished; “healthier” is a rather poorly defined term in the scientific literature, and it would be hard to determine, in a study that controlled for body mass, which population is healthier.

    We do not yet know if this is better or worse than the flu. It would also be helpful to clarify which flu–the 2009 H1N1? the 1918 pandemic? Big range there.

    There are not enough cases yet in the US to make a call as to whether or not this is a paper tiger. I truly and honestly hope it to be so. That would be great for us, and an even bigger boon to Africa. I hope (but do not know) that we can work out some SOP for dealing with the various apparent stages of Ebola and get the folks back in Sierra Leone and Guinea that information. Liberia, I am afraid, is coming apart at the seams and may not be retrievable.

    Virology may not be CA’s strong point, but he doesn’t need to drag his brain through 15 years of research and medical training–I did, and I think that Ebola is something that needs to be respected.
    Furthermore, virology may not be his strong suite, but statistics isn’t yours. The current case numbers are just too small to make any meaningful conclusions, despite the temptation to jump that way. The NEJM published this article yesterday:
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411680?query=featured_home
    and I have been in discussion with the author about various technical points. His repeated reply has been, we just didn’t have a big enough data set to make conclusions–and they had >100 patients. Get back to me after the collective of Western Medicine has seen that many, and I will either acknowledge you were right, Ebola was a nothing-virus (my preferred scenario) or, well, we’ll all be too busy making bleach and buying isolation gear to chat then.

    I am at least partially responsible for his focus on Ebola; note before I came on scene he had limited the Ebola news to one focused post per day. CA was gracious enough to give me a platform; and when/if this crisis goes away I will be happy to fade back to the background. There will be other crises that will require other expertise; I have learned a great deal about military style defense and comms from his links and will be delighted when he can once again restore balance to the Force.

  127. the fukkn A-team

    They show nothing more than I could see on any sunday morning on the eastside of Detroit. FAIL.

  128. the fukkn A-team

    I have to say that the site is much more viewable without the swastikas adorning the margins. Good move.

  129. the fukkn A-team

    LOL. I have much respect for our healers CA, but the ebol-shit shtick is getting old. It really doesn’t matter if it’s ebola or Fukashima radiation- what difference does it make? Honestly, I am more worried about the $ collapse. That’s when things will actually come apart,

  130. I wonder what would happen if you spent 1/10 of the time thinking about yourself, that you do thinking about everyone else.

    Nah, I don’t really wonder. I know. It’s called “WIN!”

  131. Little early for that, dauntless. Numbers don’t lie and logs are numbers too.

    Just someone PLEASE tell me that when it goes hot, there’ll be a ton less guessing. We’ve already got racetracks and casinos for that, and they’re a lot more fun.

  132. Know the truth and it will set you free, son.

    CA is in full hype-mode as the idea of everyone dying by the millions is porn to most of his readers.

    But, like porn, that is as close as they’ll get to the real thing.

  133. FrozenPatriot

    Email sent to wrsa at hush mail…

  134. “…there will still be a form of fiat wealth to trade.”

    That ain’t fiat wealth; it’s fiat money. HUGE difference. You know they’re gonna snatch it anyway; they already got most of everyone else’s in the “housing crisis.” Next come the retirement funds, then whatever’s left after that. Thieves steal, duh.

    When the time comes, everyone starts with only their wits and whatever essentials they had the foresight to acquire. Fairness. Equality. Maybe best of all, genuine justice dished out hard by reality.

  135. People taking drugs don’t automatically pose a risk to everyone around them, Muslims don’t either. That’s the cutting point The very presence of an infected individual infringes on the right to life of everyone around them. They have to be isolated and treated if treatment exists. Individuals volunteer to provide that treatment knowing and accepting the risks. Ankle bracelets to monitor the quarantined is a good idea but it is not flawless. They can cut them and before a quarantine team can arrive they are hidden in a car attempting to leave their location. How do you catch them?
    How do you even ask travelers to voluntarily provide information if you cant conduct a roadblock?

    Trust me I have an issue with random worthless roadblocks and LEO fishing expeditions, I also am firmly in the position with the right to travel, however again this all boils down to the individual right and the infringement of others. Travel in and of itself does not pose a risk to others, but if your travel contains a component of infringement, for example driving while intoxicated or driving while infected with lethal disease, then you do pose a risk of infringement to others. Your travel must be impeded and that risk reduced or eliminated. That could be as simple as removing the infected traveler to outside of the “safe” area.
    As a libertarian you should strive to always consider the others rights and to remedy infringements with the least possibly punishment necessary. There are times however as you pointed out the execution or lethal force is necessary.
    Do I want a FEMA camp or socialism…that’s just retarded.

  136. Hey, I like porn but still find the time to fuck my wife as much as possible!
    We can read doom porn and at the same time NOT be just itching for a zombie infestation. Give us a bit more credit than that this is a failry smart bunch of guys round here.

  137. CA –
    I got a brief update from the friend in Monrovia. For clarification, they’re not dealing directly with the patients.
    They indicated that it’s still so disorganized and chaotic that their team isn’t even talking about the viral crisis going on outside their walls. They’re just trying to keep things running inside, and letting the front line folks do their thing. Draw your own conclusions.

    I know that’s not much of a sitrep, but it’s what I could get.

  138. the fukkn A-team

    “I agree that in general Americans are better nourished; “healthier” is a rather poorly defined term in the scientific literature, and it would be hard to determine, in a study that controlled for body mass, which population is healthier.”

    Comparing a dodge to a chevy is still using crap for study subjects.

    http://readynutrition.com/resources/almost-all-americans-severely-lack-essential-nutrition-study_24102014/

  139. On site confirmation that things are FL in capital city is helpful. Tx!

  140. One-man Astro-turfing.

  141. I have no such illusions.
    History points the other way: the one thing most likely will be small and large fiefdoms and dictatorships.
    It won’t be anything like now.

    But people talking about waving “checks and cash”?

    It is to laugh.

  142. What makes you think that’s an either/or equation?

    It’s not written in stone anywhere that it can’t be both, and any ten other things, singly or simultaneously. The Four Horseman play as a team.
    That’s kind of the exact point of general preparedness.

  143. the fukkn A-team

    Tomato -Tamoto
    Doesn’t matter much. TPTB control the value of everything.

  144. the fukkn A-team

    We shall see. In the meantime…Reality is: “checks n cash”.

  145. the fukkn A-team

    Agree Aesop. I’m very well prepared. Hope you are too.

  146. the fukkn A-team

    Right now I still believe this ebola is a psyop, however, drills have been known-(911 et al) to go active . Please read this:

    http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/10/31/it-is-a-mistake-to-consider-the-ebola-epidemic-a-hoax/