The Current Militia Movement?

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From over the transom:

The Current Militia Movement?

Bill Roberts

After reading the latest “Barry Sends” piece and all 273 responses, actually 272 as I wrote one of them, I decided to weigh in with this forum. I am going to attempt to present some material and to respond to some issues raised in all those responses. To the best of my ability I am going to try not to be condescending in my tone and insulting in my text. That said, let us all try to have a rational discussion. If the best you can come up with is name calling or threats, or if you see any need for either, I suggest you are wasting your valuable breath.

Now, a short note about me. I am old enough to know better and I do not find coloring inside the lines rewarding. I served on active duty in the United States Army for a little over 22 years. A tad over half of that was with Special Forces. I attended the “Q” course twice, once as an NCO and once as an officer. I had a full flash before the tab was even thought of and I have one of those as well. After I retired I became a machinist and welder. Anything else that you may deem relevant may be directed to me personally at this email address: sf127795@hushmail.com.

Let’s start this session with The Constitution of the United States. I don’t care whether you like the document or not. We are a nation of laws whether you like those laws or not is irrelevant to the fact that they exist and each of us is subject to them. The Constitution is the foundation of the government and as much as I may not like the intent of those who say “it is a living document,” they are quite correct. If you don’t believe that please explain Amendments 11 through 27 to me.

Article I, Section 8, Powers of Congress, first mentions the Militia:

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Article II, Section 2, specifies:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; …

It should be very plain at this point that while The Constitution does define the mission of the militia it does not define what comprises the militia. That is found in a document referred to as the Militia Act of 1903. It is the most recent rendition of the Militia Act and states:

FIFTYSEVENTH CONGRESS. SESS. II. CH. 195,196. 1903.

January 21, 1903.

[Public, No. 3.]

CHAP. 196.‐ An Act to promote the efficiency of the militia, and for other purposes. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

That the militia shall consist of every able‐bodied male citizen of the respective States, Territories, and the District of Columbia, and every able‐bodied male of foreign birth who has declared his intention to become a citizen, who is more than eighteen and less than forty‐five years of age, and into two classes‐the organized militia, to be known as the National Guard of the State, Territory, or District of Columbia, or by such other designations as may be given them by the laws of the respective States or Territories, and the remainder to be known as the Reserve Militia.

This is further codified in 10 U. S. Code § 311 – Militia: composition and classes, which states:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85–861, § 1(7), Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103–160, div. A, title V, § 524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)

Let’s recap quickly. We know active duty military forces are under the control of the Federal Government as are the Reserves. The National Guard, organized militia if you will, is under the control of various state governments but subject to call up by the Federal Government. All that leaves is the Reserve Militia aka the unorganized militia which is to serve as replacements as needed in the case of crisis or war. Additionally some states have what are known as State Defense Forces. They are intended to augment the state’s National Guard in peace time and replace them should the state’s National Guard be federalized.

I have talked a lot about the militia but I have not really defined the term. Here is one of the best definitions I found for Militia:

[mi-lishuh] noun

1. a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.

2. a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.

3. all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.

4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

5. a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.

At this point I am sure some of you are saying “so what?” The “what” is that these specific cites put to rest the idea that any of the little bands of folks that are organizing and arming to deal with a perceived threat from the U. S. Government are militias except in the lowest sense of the word. They are not militias in the historic or legal sense and it is disingenuous to use the title or try to claim the linage. They can be clubs, they can be associations, they can be rebels, they can be insurrectionists or terrorists and they can even be gangs; but they are not the militia either organized or unorganized as the sole mission of the militia as specified by The Constitution is to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.

It appears that some of you are on the wrong side of this equation. You can wrap yourselves in whatever flag you want, quote any oath you want but the truth remains the same. Now on to some further observations of the responses submitted to the 25 August 2015 posting by SFC Barry. These are in no particular order.

To the banter about the various great successes of militias past and present I can only say, and so? As for the proud moments reflected from the Revolutionary War let me point out that even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again. If the new nation had depended solely on these armed civilians, we would probably still be POMs. As for more modern day touted successes, let me say that the unwillingness of Barack Hussein Obama and his civilian administration to wage war should not be viewed as an indictment of the ability of the military to kill and break things. For those of you who missed the first Gulf War, you missed seeing Saddam’s military in their fighting positions being buried alive when we lowered our blades and advanced. You can go online for pictures of the devastation unleashed by the Warthogs and fast movers on huge columns of men and materiel not to mention what happens on the receiving end of a 500 or 2000 pound bomb. Don’t kid yourselves, the current combat arms soldier is better equipped, better trained and better prepared for the realities of warfare than you are.

Someone queried where U. S. Special Forces were, why they weren’t on the ground helping with some of our merry bands. Simply answered, they are doing what they were trained to do in all sorts of foreign theaters of operation. To expect them to come to the aid of an insurgent movement in the United States is like asking King George to train the rebel colonialists. Probably not going to happen. In fact, under current law that has essentially gutted The Posse Comitatus Act, they would more likely be hunting down rebel groups in the U. S.

For the groups that believe their liberty is threatened, and I don’t necessarily disagree, but feel the only solution is armed revolt; I say, okay what’s stopping you? If you really believe taking up arms against the government at whatever level is the only answer why haven’t you? Call your councils together and float the suggestion. My guess is you will have very few takers. Talking is easy, action hurts. Now if you really want to do something with all that pent up energy I have a few suggestions. You think you are so good at organizing a movement, then organize one. Convince people that there are changes needed. Convince them to get involved. Convince them to vote. For all of you saying voting won’t work, I present to you a community organizer named Barrack Hussein Obama. Seems to have worked for him. Of course now, as our National Monarch aka Dear Leader, he simply uses his phone and pen. This country didn’t get in this shape because conservatives got out and voted. It got this way because they sat on their collective butts and whined.

You say the government is taking from you. I presume money in the form of fees and taxes is high on the list. Maybe you don’t like being taxed on groceries, or auto repairs, or other services. Great! Organize the assets in your community into a barter system. It may not work for everything but it can make a difference. This also helps prepare for the great SHTF scenario I hear so much about. I have heard about it for decades and I am still waiting. Nothing will do more for you than preparedness. Granted, I am well prepared but I’d rather find other ways of averting the SHTF scenario and not play rough with some military Combine Arms Team rolling around with tanks, APCs and attack helicopters. Not going to win that one.

I am also not saying that preparation on an individual basis is not necessary because it is. Each and every individual should strive to be in the best physical shape they can be. This would also resolve some medical issues. What is a good level of physical fitness? It varies with age but if you militia aged folks want an initial bench mark I’ll give you one: 60 push-ups in 2 minutes or less, 60 sit-ups in the same time allowance, 10 chin-ups, run 2 miles in 16 minutes or less, put on your rucksack (minimum 1/3 of your body weight or 65#, whichever is more), add water and rifle. Now trek over rolling terrain for 20 kilometers and complete your march in 2.5 hours or less. That is a real good start to measuring your physical fitness. Notice I didn’t say do 1000 push-ups in an hour. Glad somebody thinks it’s important to do that but I could care less. Demonstrate you can do what I outlined and then we’ll talk more on the subject.

By the way, for a real treat, end your 20K march at the firing line of a range. Dump your ruck on the ground, assume the prone position and engage some E Type silhouettes at say 100, 200 and 300 yards and see how it goes. Usually a real eye opener.

As for other preparation, the sky is the limit. Make a list of what you think you will need to make life bearable or even pleasant. Materiel and knowledge. Then start working on the list. Would you include a garden for vegetables? How about learning to can those vegetables? How will you preserve meat or poultry without electricity? Can you produce electrical power, even on a limited basis, without petroleum fuels? The list literally goes on and on. Look to some of the DIY/self-help/back to basics books and periodicals available. Do research. There is a very old book running around on the used book market titled “Fortunes in Formulas.” I have a couple of copies and recommend the older, 1930’s editions. There are procedures listed in the 1000+ pages for making everything from cosmetics, to film developing chemicals, to black powder, gun cotton and nitroglycerine, to skin bleach. Get a functional reference library pulled together in hard copy.

For the responses that complained about nobody helping, this is me trying to be helpful and I will continue to try and be helpful to anyone who wants my help. Interestingly enough, out of all the responses I read only one that really pissed me off. Someone made a comment about disabled service men and women. Said they should stay on state run TV and beg of their $19.95 a month since obviously their career choices didn’t work out so well. Paraphrasing mind you because looking it up and quoting just wasn’t worth my time. This is a perfect example of the attitude that will get a bunch of folks around him hurt or killed. It is the “me, I am important, screw you guys” attitude. As I said, I’ll help anybody that asks for it but in his case I’ll pass. Don’t misread me here. I am not saying that you should run out and give money to these causes. Charity is a personal matter. I am saying you don’t have to be a huge prig towards people that have enough on their plates as it is.

Along with this I noticed a lot of divisiveness. I am just going to say straight up, if you can’t agree or at least put aside the pettiness you won’t make much progress. That whole thing I said about pulling together and organizing as a community is something I believe in. The whole discussion on “not rich, not a professional” was a supreme waste of time and energy. Why anyone believes the two are interrelated is beyond me but it just doesn’t matter in the overall scheme of things. Some folks drive Fords and some drive Chevys. Oh well. Let’s try and focus on what is important. Same goes for the nonsense someone floated about SFC Barry not being very good because he retired as an SFC. Trying telling that to a Marine Gunnery Sergeant or Navy Chief Petty Officer. Then pick your ass up off the ground. Best to keep your mouths shut and bethought an idiot than to open them and remove all doubt.

I realize from the comments that there are those out there that have decided that people like me are irrelevant FXXKS based on our age. That’s is okay because I can just as easily consider them irrelevant because they are young, been nowhere and done nothing. I am sure that some of those self-same younger irrelevant FXXKS don’t like what I have to say any more than they appreciated anything Steve Barry said. That’s okay. You can’t please everyone all of the time.

I found the diatribes on schools and names to be quite humorous. Believe what you want, pay what you want, but with very few exceptions you are not going to spend a week or so at some “commando” school and come out with Ranger skills. Just not going to happen. Not to say you can’t learn something, just don’t buy into the hype. There are some schools out there that do cater to a very select clientele for huge amounts of money and produce incredible results. They are run by very competent former operators and if you can find one, afford it and get in, more power to you. It will be the experience of your life. In the meantime narrow it down. If you want to learn to shoot, research a school that specializes in that. Gunsite comes to mind but there are others. If you want to learn to track, a very important skill, there are schools that teach that. If you want to learn to fight with a knife, do so. If you want close quarter, unarmed combat, seek out a well-respected dojo. Many will provide one on one training or small group specialty training. Many Community Colleges offer classes that fit into this area. Just don’t think a week at “Club 007” is going to turn you into an international spy. It won’t. As for the naming, it is insincere to ride on the reputation of real, historic organizations that earned their place. If you are any good at all “Joe’s Commando Class” would be as good and word of mouth will keep you busy. There is nothing in any of the “cool guy” names other than hype and fluff.

As for getting your training locally from a former member of that military, that can work in some cases to a degree. If you are friends with a former Infantry Sergeant, Army or Marines, he could be a wealth of information on individual small arms and squad level tactics. Now if this same friend was a cook, not so much. In the military there is a term referred to as the tooth-to-tail ratio. This is the number of support troops required for every combat soldier. This is a fluctuating number and one that very few people agree upon to include the “experts.” On the low end, most will agree that it is 3 or 4 to 1. Meaning 3 or 4 support troops for each combat soldier. Others claim it to be higher, on the order of 8 or 9 to 1. Regardless of the actual number, this points out that there are far more cooks, clerks, supply personnel, and other non-combat arms trained persons both in the military and out of the military than there are steely eyed killers. Know your “friend’s” qualifications before you get too involved.

As far as conducting you own training, if you could learn combat skills with nothing more than a book, I would not have had to endure years of training, training and more training. What do you think the military does when it isn’t actively engaged? It trains. Keep your training goals and aspirations real. If you really want to be an Army Ranger, a Navy SEAL or be awarded a Green Beret I can introduce you to a recruiter.

For the most part, this concludes my thoughts on the matter. If we can reach some common ground and if there is a desire to continue the discussion, let me know. I am quite capable of being detailed in many areas short of classified information. I may be getting older but I am not senile yet and I am still subject to Section 313 of Title 32.

Let me know if I can help in anyway short of sedition and treason. Train, organize, practice and above all, be SAFE!

William David “Bill” Roberts II

165 responses to “The Current Militia Movement?

  1. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on The Dixie Traveler.

  2. Mr Roberts, thank you for your article.
    it is clear you put a lot of thought into it and that you care about your audience.

    However you claim to have read the replies of SFC Barry yet you have not addressed the points made against his “argument”

    – Your argument is “troops are so much better trained than you”
    So what? Infantry training is not rocket science. We do it in the Army with teenagers who are barely listening all the time.
    Motivated civilians are a lot smarter and listen a LOT harder. I am amazed by the quality of pure .civs who come and train and their resulting abilities.

    Also sitting on your ass during an FTX waiting to hurry up so you can wait more..like much of the ground forces spend 80% of their “training” time…that’s is not really “training” now is it? Lots of military training time is “fluff” As long as people avoid the SWAT fantasy camps that are sadly popular right now and go to real SUT training regularly, they will be better trained than the bulk of the US military.

    – Your 2nd argument seems to be “an intact combined arms team can wipe the floor with any militia, look what what we did in Iraq bla, bla…”

    And to that I answer : So fucking what? Of course of intact Combat Arms Team can do that. But they need fuel , maintenance or they wont be “intact” for long. They need troops who agree to fight. Try to fight The People and see what happens. My educated guess (from 20+ yrs in the ground forces) is you’ll have the young kids the E1-E4s who dont know any better and you’ll have the career guys the E-9s and the O-5 and above+ going along (tho not all of these either).
    Our most effective warriors are not found in those ranks are they?

    – Finally the fundamental perception that seems to underlie your “argument” is a misdirection.
    This is NOT(!!!) about attacking the US military in any way shape or form/.
    Making this the yardstick by measuring armed civilians show you understood nothing.
    Armed are about defending the country from all enemies foreign and domestic. If at some future date a tyranny attempts to use the (by then) remnants) of a US military against he people it will find: a) only a fraction of the military will go along b) The US military at that point will no longer be the US military and lack legitimacy…
    So IF we ever get to this point we are NOT fighting the US military, but simply anyone who has been co-opted by a hostile regime, likely in an environment of EXTREME budget problems.

    Guess what? that means there ARE NO “Combined Arms teams” to be found anywhere among such an organization.
    So in other words it does MATTER that the US military is so good.
    Who cares?
    NO ONE is looking in fighting it in its current form, this is a misdirection of thought among some we need to rid ourselves of.
    Please don’t bring it up again because it means nothing and adds nothing to the conversation and is a MISDIRECTION.
    It’s the kind of misdirection I would write if I was tasked as part of my job to splinter and reduce the effectiveness of dissidents in a tyranny….hmmm….

    – Also my long tabbed friend….
    Please don’t over estimate how good even the most elite units are.
    There is such a thing as diminishing returns in everything.

    Does firing f(guesstimating here) , 600,000 rounds in quality training over a 6 yr SF career, make you 60 times as good as someone who fired 10,000 rds in the last 3 yrs in quality training?

    No, definitely not. Most folks plateau at a small fraction of that and improvements above a certain level are incremental are they not?
    Even when supported by a training establishment that’s both huge and will certainly be affordable in the future..
    …So remember Quantity has a Quality all it’s own.

    – That does not mean that the (largely) civilian community would not welcome your contributions.
    Please come and join us and be part of the solution and raise the abilities of those willing and able to train.

    PS: Militia is simply a term in American English. As children of our civilization most of us have succumbed the mainstream narrative against those who would make things better and for lack of a better term are described as that… Just think of them as “Awakening Councils” if you like those terms better….

    • Please excuse the typos. Some times a “not” etc was left out somehow, with cutting/pasting etc. Most you guys will know what I mean……

    • F,

      Bravo ! Bravo !

    • And F drops the mike on his way of the stage, well said my friend!

    • “Your argument is ‘troops are so much better trained than you’
      So what? Infantry training is not rocket science. We do it in the Army with teenagers who are barely listening all the time.
      Motivated civilians are a lot smarter and listen a LOT harder. I am amazed by the quality of pure .civs who come and train and their resulting abilities.”
      So you learned this when you were in the Infantry, right? Even though Infantry (what are they 10-15%, if that?) are “Ground Forces”, “Ground Forces” are not necessarily Infantry or any iteration thereof like Paras, Rangers, SF, etc, . Non Infantry ground forces (the other 80 or so percent) get “I’m up, he sees me, I’m down” and that’s usually the extent of their SUT training (actually, it’s not SUT). I don’t discount my students ability to take care of themselves and their loved ones in the NPT, Survivalist group, or militia after receiving training, especially after multiple courses, but I also don’t blow smoke up their ass, and tell them they are grunts now. It takes more than some SUT classes to make a civilian into a grunt (as DTG alluded to earlier) , and telling them anything else is disingenuous.

  3. I’m not too perturbed by either SF’er comments…

    If it does go kinetic, it won’t be a toe to toe slugfest, where we’d surely lose, but a classic hit and run/harrass action, ironically taught by SF’ers…There are sooooo few, actual pointy ended door kickers and trigger pullers compared to the rest of the military and overall US population..

    He, imho, and many of his ilk, have institutionalized mindsets, can’t quite adjust to the reality that we “rebels,” and ill trained fodder, just have to be accurate 1% of the time, vs their 100% of the time..Look at current actions overseas with ROE in place..Now bring that home….We can tie em up in knots…

    According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces#Within_the_United_States

    we have the following troops:
    Overseas
    As of 31 December 2010, U.S. armed forces were stationed in 150 countries; the number of non-contingent deployments per country ranges from 1 in Suriname to over 50,000 in Germany.[40] Some of the largest deployments are: 103,700 in Afghanistan, 52,440 in Germany (see list), 35,688 in Japan (USFJ), 28,500 in South Korea (USFK), 9,660 in Italy, and 9,015 in the United Kingdom. These numbers change frequently due to the regular recall and deployment of units.

    Altogether, 77,917 military personnel are located in Europe, 141 in the former Soviet Union, 47,236 in East Asia and the Pacific, 3,362 in North Africa, the Near East, and South Asia, 1,355 in sub-Saharan Africa and 1,941 in the Western Hemisphere excluding the United States itself.
    Within the United States

    Including U.S. territories and ships afloat within territorial waters

    As of 31 December 2009, a total of 1,137,568 personnel were on active duty within the United States and its territories (including 84,461 afloat).[41] The vast majority (941,629 personnel) were stationed at bases within the contiguous United States. There were an additional 37,245 in Hawaii and 20,450 in Alaska; 84,461 were at sea, 2,972 in Guam, and 179 in Puerto Rico.
    and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

    As of August 29, 2015, the United States has a total resident population of 321,628,000, making it the third most populous country in the world.[1] It is very urbanized, with 81% residing in cities and suburbs as of 2014 (the worldwide urban rate is 54%).[2] California and Texas are the most populous states,[3] as the mean center of U.S. population has consistently shifted westward and southward.[4] New York City is the most populous city in the United States.[5]

    http://www.statisticbrain.com/hunting-statistics/
    Also, we like to hunt and the total number of gun licenses sold for 2010 season is 621,094 and the total percentage of the U.S. that hunts 7% or approx 2.5 million..lots of guns capable of taking out a person…

    So, i look at the numbers, and i look at history, and i look at the number of Veterans/Civies who might take up arms to resist, and i look at what Michael Collins did for the IRA against one of the best, most professionally trained fighting forces in the world, both regular combats units: Para’s and SAS, et al; and the British ultimately lost….

    The ‘Haj ultimately defeated the Russians too, who brutal in their oppression, and history is full of under trained, ill equipped, and even poorly led “rebels,” defeating the supposedly more powerful, better trained and led, adversary.

    Look at what Dorner and Rudolph did to tie up resources far outnumbering them, now imagine several thousand of them running and gunning/sniping/etc…

    Be a WASP is all we gotta do…..

    So, do what you can, how you can, contribute what you can…

    My philosophy is local, local, local, then fuck it, do it live, for if we do go down the rabbit hole of it being “hot,” then God save us, because it’s going to make the Middle East and Yugoslavia look like a picnic….

  4. Did you miss the part where I was referring to myself not committing acts of sedition or treason? There is absolutely nothing I can say that will satisfy all of the “anti-government, lets get our guns and have a revolution crowd.” There is no way to have that conversation because anything I say is going to be incorrect if it deviates from your pre-determined result set.

  5. Let’s start this session with The Constitution of the United States. I don’t care whether you like the document or not. We are a nation of laws whether you like those laws or not is irrelevant to the fact that they exist and each of us is subject to them.

    Excrement. While we have a Constitution, it hasn’t been followed for at least 100 years, and could easily be argued far longer. To claim we’re still a “nation of laws” is complete horse-shit.

    Article I, Section 8, Powers of Congress, first mentions the Militia:
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions…

    Well, it would seem the Laws of the Union (aka “the Constitution”) are NOT being executed, haven’t been for a long time… Is this NOT one of the purposes of the Militia?

    … the little bands of folks that are organizing and arming to deal with a perceived threat from the U. S. Government are militias except in the lowest sense of the word.

    I see. We’re a little too small, a little too stupid to meet your standard. Thank you for reiterating your previous viewpoint with such crystal clarity.

    Now, let me provide a quote for you to consider, oh wise and omniscient one:

    The power of the sword, say the minority…, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for The powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. –Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

    It appears that some of you are on the wrong side of this equation. You can wrap yourselves in whatever flag you want, quote any oath you want but the truth remains the same.

    Indeed it does. Check your premises, as it is clear that you “are on the wrong side of the equation.”

    To expect [SF] to come to the aid of an insurgent movement in the United States is like asking King George to train the rebel colonialists. Probably not going to happen. In fact, under current law that has essentially gutted The Posse Comitatus Act, they would more likely be hunting down rebel groups in the U. S.

    It depends on a lot of variables. “We’ll see” is probably the most honest answer.

    For all of you saying voting won’t work, I present to you a community organizer named Barrack Hussein Obama. Seems to have worked for him. Of course now, as our National Monarch aka Dear Leader, he simply uses his phone and pen. This country didn’t get in this shape because conservatives got out and voted. It got this way because they sat on their collective butts and whined.

    Excrement. With very few exceptions pretty much every politician in DC is corrupted and directed on how to vote and what causes to push. Those exceptions are either killed via air crashes (Senator Paul Wellstone, Senator Ted Stevens and Governor Mel Carnahan), shot (JFK and RFK), or are charged with already-known felonies and misdemeanors but were left alone for blackmail purposes (James Traficant, Dan Rostenkowski, Walt Tucker, Mel Reynolds, Frank Balance, Duke Cunningham, William J. Jefferson, etc, etc.). Those in DC know they either toe the line they’re told to, or face the consequences; prison or execution. So they play the game, they’re completely owned, and there is NOTHING you or I can do about it.

    You think politics at the local level matter? How’s that working out for Kentucky these last few weeks? How’d that work out for LOCAL politics leading to secession (and Civil War), with those yearning to be free of the Federal Leviathan crushed under Leviathan’s boot? DC has total power over the states, until independent men and women stand up as a group and say “no more.” Remember that pesky militia that you have so much respect for at the Bundy Ranch?

    And all YOU can say is ” Talking is easy, action hurts.”

    Yeah, you TALK. Your underlying message is “resistance is futile.” So “work within the system” (what a stupid idea) and happily lick .gov boots.

    Bullshit.

    Let me know if I can help in anyway short of sedition and treason.

    They’re perfectly allowable, legal and justified… IF you win. For all your wisdom, this elephant in the room isn’t even noticed by you. So much for being “old enough to know better.”

    You’re an embarrassment, and a fool. You look down upon those who are tired of waiting for technically competent people (such as you claim to be) to actually DO THEIR DUTY, by FOLLOWING THEIR OATH. They decide they’re on their own… and you have just confirmed as much. So they decide there’s nobody to help us, nobody to TEACH us (without your condescending bullshit flowing like a river), and so we’ll have to do the best we can, with what we’ve got. Where we may not have the training, there are plenty with the heart, the resolve to do what they must.

    All of your training, all of your experience with weapons and tactics, and to this day are still missing the one weapon that really matters: courage.

    You say, “well, look at the damage from a A10 tank-buster.” So fucking what…? A thousand rebels in Afghanistan kept 100,000+ troops chasing their tail for years, despite being outmanned 12:1, out-gunned, no control of the skies and severe technological disadvantages. They have effectively won by a war of attrition.

    In short, there were not enough “policemen” to keep the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan in line… The generally accepted force ratio being 20 troops per 1000 civilians (https://www.aei.org/publication/we-can-put-more-forces-in-iraq/, http://www.rand.org/pubs/periodicals/rand-review/issues/summer2003/burden.html, http://www.podesta.com/pipeline/counterinsurgency-force-ratio-how-many-troops-does-it-take-do-job). Iraq had an overall ratio of 8:1000, Afghanistan on 5:1000.

    Current U.S. forces number 2.85 million, between active and reserve military, all Federal, state and local armed agents. The force ratio thus extrapolates out to 9.1:1000, or the citizens outnumber the soldiers 109.1:1. Roughly 100 million of them are armed with (NATO estimates) 500 million guns.

    The numbers say we CAN win. What’s missing is the final spark the light the tinder in the minds of men everywhere; the financial collapse (which will be biblical in severity) will be more than sufficient. And the moral outrage and bone-deep anger will help with that little courage problem you seem to have…

    So you can look down your nose at those of us who’ve grown tired waiting for you to get off your ass and help… or you can get out and help. Either way, CWII is coming, and I don’t a fuck about operator snobs like you. It’d be far better if you joined the team, to make victory sure and not as expensive in blood. But if not, we’ll do it without you.

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    ― Samuel Adams

    • Thanks, Eric. A magnificent refutation. Could not agree more.

    • Damn…IMO puts the whole thing to rest, bit by bit and bottom to top. Helluva job. If the distraction’s over, I think everyone has a life to live and defend; I know I do. Thanks.

      • ” If the distraction’s over, ”

        That’s part of the purpose behind the curtain of “we’re just here to help with sane, sensible criticism, blah blah….”

        Sowing the seeds of discord, doubt and disrespect.

        And, Eric, Jim and I don’t always agree but when we do, you know it’s right!

        Again, great job!

        • If the local “Old Men Refusing To Age Gracefully” Saturday-afternoon touch football league was planning to challenge the owners, financiers, and the entire roster of the local NFL team entire NFL to a one-game-for-all-the-marbles challenge, those old guys should be welcoming input from retired pros on how not to die on the first play.

          Admiral Stockdale’s message in yesterday’s masthead should be food for thought for all.

          As WRSA editor, I look for items that will disrupt the thought patterns of complacency, incorrect/incomplete analysis, irrational prejudice (both pro and con), and other sundry failures of imagination/analysis/planning. I will continue to do so.

          G1 said it simply and best yesterday:

          The steps to recovery start with recognizing that you have a problem.
          FREEFOR has a problem and it needs to be shoved in its face to get people to admit it and be willing to do something about it.

          Take it from a recovering drunk/junkie/child thereof:

          Fantasies and denial, even if collectively ratified, do not change reality.

          Reality just is.

          And FREEFOR has a flying shitload of work to do in order to be credible, let alone effective.

          Let alone victorious.

          Check your premises.

          Stow your fragile self-concepts.

          Bear down hard on the facts.

          Think harder, gentlemen.

          • The steps to recovery start with recognizing that you have a problem.
            FREEFOR has a problem and it needs to be shoved in its face to get people to admit it and be willing to do something about it.

            Which problem would you like to focus on, the lack of government restraint (blatantly unconstitutional actions, mandates, laws, behaviors by our so-called “leaders”) or the fact that we (Americans in fly-over country) are not considered “serious” by those same corrupt government actors?

            As someone else already observed, FREEFOR is not currently set up for short-term, direct confrontations, yet are inherently geared toward long-term operations in asymmetrical operations (4GW and guerrilla operations). GOVFOR are set up (in a domestic situation) exclusively for short-term direct confrontations. GOVFOR cannot win a drawn-out operation in Iraq or Afghanistan, much less in their own back yard, with no truly safe areas to retreat to.

            FREEFOR has a flying shitload of work to do in order to be credible, let alone effective.

            Again, it depends. What is “credible?” What is “effective?” These two words are very subjective. Indeed, it was you who posted the Wasp story by Eric Frank Russell, just nine days ago (https://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2015/09/02/wasp/), which challenges the very notions of credibility and effectiveness… I’m not sufficiently intelligent on the subject to say whether the “wasp” strategy writ large will be sufficient, or even realistic… The only thing I can say with certainty is that FREEFOR will not be successful using conventional thinking any more than if they tried to engage in conventional warfare.

            IMHO.

            • The only thing I can say with certainty is that FREEFOR will not be successful using conventional thinking any more than if they tried to engage in conventional warfare.

              We are in violent agreement.

            • Yes Credibility, FREEFOR has no credibility because of the factors that SFC Barry and the present article allude to. We have done very little to demonstrate to those that matter that we are anything above the level of what popular TV programs depict as the “militia”.
              We have no credibility because we cannot stop stepping on our own dick. The professionals are looking at us with an objective eye. Imagine if they were on the outside looking in. Imagine if they were looking to insert into the US to build upon current UW groups and make them more effective. Which group would they support? The Oathkeepers are about the only group that has an organizational basis for improvement. You dont re-enforce failure. You re-enforce success. Would you spend your time training and organizing a group of complete cluster fuck Kernals wearing enough MARPAT to cover two good Marines or would you look for groups that actually had a chance to benefit from the training and organization. We are not even talking about financial support yet! Or did you think you were going to be feeding that rifle with just your ammo stash?

              I do recognize that some of the guys posting here are part of groups that do have their shit together. You know who you are.

          • That’s fair and it’s not wrong. Thing is, it’s built of Pragmatism. Ha, came with the JD! I find that Pragmatism is tough to explain, why it throws things off. After all, it IS about implementation, so that’s not the problem. I wrote this yesterday at the zerogov forum; maybe it’ll help…

            “If the means is switched for the ends, then the ends become literally unachievable except through sheer luck. This is because they cease their existence /as ends/. Ends are what make the mare go, in this context.”

            Means are the doing alright, but one MUST know what they’re doing and why…THAT’S what’s missing. As Eric noted, the Good Guys have the Bad Guys outgunned by huge magnitudes. Outsmarted, even more.

      • Thanks for the feedback. Given the positive responses to the… essay… by Colonel “Bill,” I figured I’d get seriously flamed for my response, but I could NOT sit back and say nothing.

    • Capitaliseric, one point of the discussion here speaks of voting and how it “works” as opposed to “not working”.

      I hope to supplement your comments regarding voting; A great example happening in real time is the exhausting efforts to tear down Trump. Putting aside one’s feelings for or against this candidate, the point being, there are parties in both the Republicunt and Democunt aisles. Something that’s existed for years despite this specific point on Trump. Conservatives, Christians, Tea Party, White People, Gun Owners, Bitter Clingers, etc. have been demonized for years by its own party as well as the party of socialists, liberals, communists, etc. The push to make Bush the candidate of choice despite the growing voices against it and the establishment will continue its rally until these bastards get what they want. THIS is what we peon civilians are facing every single fucking day! We are encouraged to “vote” but meanwhile, these sonofabitches are flipping us off, calling us every name in the book and constantly reminding us of our illiteracy. And to show us just how dumb we are, they’re bringing in illegal aliens, giving them welfare, drivers licenses, gun ownership, free healthcare and education with one single purpose…..a vote. A vote whose sole purpose is to subordinate OUR vote. Still, many will vote despite the odds and many will sit home while this very knowledge of vote stealing will be taking place right under our noses. Additionally, the push to bring in Syrian refugees on America’s shores, (read: terrorists), is on along with the message of “humanity”.

      As you stated on your blog….thanks to the .gov documents, WE are the rogue actors, WE are the terrorists. Maybe because of this, it is why this Bill fella decided to chime in regarding civies and militia groups going against our military…..and retired “experienced” mil types like him.

      Outside of that, I cannot possibly articulate above or beyond what you have stated here. Thanks!

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “You say, “well, look at the damage from a A10 tank-buster.” So fucking what…? ”

      The Afghanis took out a bunch of AV-8Bs pretty easily at Camp Bastion. As good as any plane is in the air, it’s just prey on the ground.

  6. The author’s sentiment seems familiar somehow. Where did we hear that before?
    Oh yes;

    “All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”.

    Voting:
    It seemed to work for the present community organizer

    And just why do you think that is? WHY does ALL participation in politics lead to MORE TYRANNY?

    Why does ALL reliance on political means deliver the same endpoint?

    Any clues yet?

    Frankly, reliance on executive/legislative/judicial means of righting wrongs CREATED BY GOVERNMENT is mental masturbation, at best.

    No people EVER voted themselves free – throughout all of history.

    As one who once followed the well trod path of political participation FOR DECADES, always observing the same negative outcomes, I
    believe I recognize the intentional confusion created by the system, from such early silliness as
    “always trust the policeman” to
    “if you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear” to
    “you have no right to complain if you don’t vote”

    It is all a lie. Always has been.

    There are two kinds of people, one kind consists of those who merely wish be left alone, demanding nothing of others.

    The other group, variously known as collectivists/communists/constitutionalist/marxists/democrats/republicans/fascists and so on, demand total obedience to their god STATE, demand that all sacrifice to STATE and that because STATE has laws/rules/regulations/policies ALL must worship STATE.

    Tragically, periodic cataclysmic upheavals occur throughout history simply because the STATE worshiping collectivists will not leave decent people alone.

    It is remarkable that persons regurgitating the author’s views are always of one accord, the “duh, ya knows ya caint win agin a tank or A10 ” or some such drivel, as if all conflict and tactics resembled Tienanmen Square.

    The message is always that resistance is futile, must vote for Pedro.
    Again, the author’s inflicted message:
    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

  7. If we find the citizens (in any form) in a straight up fight against the armed forces who are supposed to be protecting them, everybody has lost regardless of who emerges victorious. I have no doubt given the capabilities and resources of the armed forces that they could squash any real resistance in the short term without breaking a sweat. But then what? Nothing good would happen and any semblance of the democratic republic we hope to restore would be toast. No one wins. If we are to attempt any martial activities, they should be directed at protecting hearth, home and families and trying to protect the communities we hope to preserve. Our SF brethren could be valuable allies if it ever comes to that.

  8. outlawpatriot

    Looks like the Looney Tunes gang of Bugs Barry, Daffy Dodge, Cootchie Culper and Buppy have added a new member, Bobbin’ Billy.

    I wish I had joined the Coast Guard. 😉

  9. I would also like to extend my thanks to the author for his candor and clarity, for sharing his wisdom with us, and for helping us assess ourselves in a clearer light. That being said, Sun Tzu – don’t attack your enemies strengths or where he expects it. Civilians probably wouldn’t stand much chance against an armored division reinforced with air power, but a civilian resistance would be foolish to do something like that. It goes back to the tooth to tail ratio the author mentioned. Kill the cooks, the mechanics, the admins, the radio men and repairmen, etc…not to mention those in the bureaucracy that give the orders. Screw a stand up fight, just kill the tail that supports the teeth. We’ve all been over this before. Somebody says we can’t, somebody says we can. It’s all just cheap foreplay until the other shoe drops. I’m not questioning the veracity of the authors words, just bringing a counterpoint. Then again, maybe just naive. After all, they had the first three Rambo movies streaming on Netflix. I just couldn’t help myself.

  10. First Barry, now Roberts…ugh. I love this site, but I’m starting to grow weary of this “professional soldiers are better” crap. Why does this continue to be brought up? I’m beginning to think that somebody’s attempting to use the old “if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it” trick. By the look of how many people reacted positively to Roberts’ “good cop” routine (to Barry’s “bad cop”), it seems to be working…

    • The steps to recovery start with recognizing that you have a problem.
      FREEFOR has a problem and it needs to be shoved in its face to get people to admit it and be willing to do something about it.

    • If the local “Old Men Refusing To Age Gracefully” Saturday-afternoon touch football league was planning to challenge the owners, financiers, and the entire roster of the local NFL team entire NFL to a one-game-for-all-the-marbles challenge, those old guys should be welcoming input from retired pros on how not to die on the first play.

      Admiral Stockdale’s message in today’s masthead should be food for thought for all.

      BTW, thanks for your readership. It is appreciated.

  11. Knowing the fight the Mos gave our boys in Iraq, do you think it would be tougher here when they are ordered to fire on Americans?

    • Jimmy the Saint

      Back when the post OIF insurgency got going, one of the military talking heads on the news shows pointed something out: Yusuf the IED Maker, for all his skill, really can’t hit at soldiers except in an immediate, localized basis. Sure, he can maybe carbomb a base, or lob some rockets/mortars in, but that’s about it for doing anything beyond fighting in the field. He can’t get at families, friends, homes, etc. In a domestic fight, that would all change.

      That’s a big part of why civil wars tend to be even more brutal than foreign ones. Sooner or later, both sides will adopt that tactic.

  12. pontiouspilot

    It appears like this settles that and that settles this.

  13. Good read.

    However it still misses the I have been trying to make for years.

    Everyone wants to be Rambo, no one wants to be the guy feeding Rambo.

    The US military today; after witnessing the fiasco of of Iraq up close and personal as a civilian contractor is seriously lacking in the engineering and technical skills required to fight a war.

    As an example, the US Army had to hire 60 year old men to teach them how to build sewage treatment plants.

    I saw the US Army incapable of feeding it’s troops without using a great army of Sri Lankan, Indian, and Filipino workers.

    We had to teach classes to Army troops on how to drive trucks. They could not find enough civilian American truckers at the beginning of the war 2004 so they threw anyone they could spare into quickie truck driving schools set up in Kuwait, and then started importing tens of thousands of truck drivers from turd world countries.

    That said if things were going to happen, it would be a lot of politicians and bureaucrats getting taken out, not going against the US Military who are incapable off fighting against that.

    The US Army could not protect the Iraqi politicians from getting taken out, it could not protect its own Iraqi civilian translators in their off time.

    Vietnam was the same thing. They controlled little beyond what they could fence in and guard 24/7.

    The US Army in its present form is incapable of taking on a insurgency in a country of over 300 million with a land mass that takes 6 days to drive across (not counting Alaska, or the various territories)

    The present movement I stead should focus on taking power back from DC. The simplest method is to frankly defy the petty bureaucrats and back it up with armed force.

    The USGOV is simply not capable of defending on its own turf. Look at the countless federal housing projects that are essentially under the control of criminal gangs now.

    How will USGOV take on people who are smarter than ghetto high school dropouts when they can’t even take on criminal gangs that use McDonalds as their business model?

    The only way the USGOV is maintaining power right now is because they write big fat checks and buy that power.

    • And to feed Rambo requires money.

    • Piling on! Good on you as well.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “The US Army in its present form is incapable of taking on a insurgency in a country of over 300 million with a land mass that takes 6 days to drive across (not counting Alaska, or the various territories) ”

      It wouldn’t have to, at least, not by itself. There will be pro-government irregulars, too. And, like as not, collectivist revolutionaries that will fight against patriot types. The US Army could function largely like the JNA did – arm and train the pro-government militias, lend occasional heavy weapon support where needed, but largely stay out of the fight.

  14. Pingback: Tactical Training by Max Velocity | Comment

  15. Don’t kid yourselves, the current combat arms soldier is better equipped, better trained and better prepared for the realities of warfare than you are… and you haven’t even seen our Warthog clipper ship – King George

    “sedition and treason” as defined by the tyrannical government that has it’s boot on your neck.

    Don’t violate any of their sections or titles. OOOOoooo.

    I have 10 laws (found in Exodus) and one guideline,,,be courteous. Other than that I intentionally attempt to break every one of the millions of local, county, state and federal laws I can.

    Avoid getting robbed, kidnapped, caged or killed as much as possible in the process.

  16. Oh… and btw let’s start the next conversation with the Declaration of Independence. The first 4 or 5 sentences will do. It predates your beloved government document.