The Big Delusion

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Thoughts on the USC/BoR – myths and realities.

Even if the mechanism drafted by fallible men who, among things, endorsed chattel slavery as a political concession to achieve political unity was capable of restraining central government power in the late 19th century, can anyone rationally that it does so today?

Do not confuse means with ends.

The ends are individual freedom, personal responsibility, and extremely limited governmental power at all levers of organization.

Please keep the language crisp and the focus sharp in addressing the following question:

What is to be done after the collapse?

101 responses to “The Big Delusion

  1. MANHATTAN HALLOWE’EN.

    Oh, I know your name is not Koresh
    And you don’t live out on Ruby Ridge
    But up there in your gleaming high towers
    Where safety’s across a far bridge.

    Your subways will flood with rivers of blood
    And you can’t imagine the din
    When that blue line suddenly wavers
    And you’re left all alone with your kin.

    We’ve been warning and training for years now
    But we can’t come to save you and yours
    So you’d better be prepped and well armed
    When they come to beat in your doors.

    You could have been out here beside us
    You maybe tried voting instead?
    But NOW you are right up against it
    And it’s useless hiding under the bed.

    You will reap what you sowed with your voting
    And we trust you will like what you get
    When the chickens come home to their roosting
    And the freebies dry up deep in debt.

    HABCAN.
    Oct. 31/’15.

  2. Jay W. Sample

    After the collapse: I believe we should give the leftwing liberals/ Democrats/Syrian immigrants/ Muslim lovers/etc. exactly what they desire… Let them form their versions of Diversity Utopia in the big cities (and fence them off from the rest of the natural world). I expect to see something far different from the cumbaya moments occur therein.

    The rest of us decent, law abiding, Christian/ God fearing folks can gravitate to the countryside geographical regions and go about our daily lives… hunting, fishing, farming, home schooling our kids, attending our churches, and enjoying our freedoms and living our lives without them and their constant impingements on every aspect of our daily lives. We can revert back to the normalcy of early America…. without them.

    Bring it!

    Jay W. Sample

  3. As far as I’m concerned, only if it is completely voluntary at the individual level.

  4. outlawpatriot

    Oh, yeah, Patrick Henry. The anarchist’s hero.

    Henry was a failure at everything he tried until in his late twenties he studied law for a couple of weeks and became a lawyer. Ya gotta love that shit. It was at this time that he discovered his talent for oration. There’s no knocking that talent. He was a pisser. With little education in law, he managed to win about a thousand cases. But his oration was of a highly emotional bent. Standing at over six feet tall and railing before an audience he was without a doubt a powerful and effective speaker.

    Speaking talent aside, Henry went home after just a few weeks of the second Continental Congress. He realized he was ineffective. No knock on him, Samuel Adams was ineffective too. Radicals took a back seat when the actual negotiations began. A point to ponder for future consideration.

    Also important to note that Henry was taken apart piecemeal during Virginia’s constitution ratification convention by Madison, a diminutive, soft spoken man plagued with gastro-intestinal problems and piles. Madison proved to be a much deeper thinker than the emotional Henry. Another point to ponder for future consideration.

    Also keep in mind that as governor of Virginia Henry raised taxes on citizens by decree. Hardly something in congruence with his eloquent speeches.

    You have to be careful how you view these men. They were not gods. They were human. And they acted as humans.

    But you can learn from them. And you better.

    • Has the USC/BoR achieved its purpose in restraining the central government?

      • Has the USC/BoR once increased or even created an iota of liberty?

        Never mind protected liberty?

      • outlawpatriot

        Peter, for the love of God man. How does parchment promote or restrain anything?

        What the fuck? You wanna have nothing? Anarchy? Exactly what does that achieve? If the motherfuckers were able over 200 years to accomplish what they have with a written constitution, what would they accomplish and how fast with nothing written at all?

        The parchment requires defenders. Pure and simple. It is what was always intended. However, that concept has been lost except for a precious few. Nothing but jibber jabbers pounding keyboards now for the most part. Fuckheads condemning their own county, finding fault with anyone doing anything for the cause of liberty, not willing to lead or be led. No matter what gig comes about liberty wise, there’s a huge problem.
        Ignorance. Just ignorance.

        But we shall see I suppose. Maybe. So far, zero, zip, nada.

        Glad I’m as old as I am. 🙂

        • A properly-drafted agreement has enforceable penalties for all material breaches (a concept itself which is defined in that proper agreement).

          “High crimes and misdemeanors” has not proven effective, nor have the sole remedies of de-election and impeachment.

          Did I say anything about nothing?

          More to come.

          • outlawpatriot

            My friend, we have talked about this on a couple of occasions. You know I am more than in agreement with what you’re proffering. However, that said, we’re still talking about words on paper. And words on paper mean nothing unless there are people who put stock in them and ultimately enforce them.

            And I know you know there has to be something. 🙂

            • Hell yes. In violent agreement we are.

              And not only do you have to control the ground in order to “reset”, you have to be willing to make sure you continue to control the ground.

              There’ll be a longer fuse (and heavier anti-dumb moderation) than usual on a post discussing this stuff again later this week.

        • “You wanna have nothing?”

          How in the world does Peter doing as he wishes translate to “have nothing”??? For crissakes, look at yourself man. Even better, speak for yourself.

          • Jim,

            The absence of a certified zookeeper on paper and the associated nomenklatura to administer the wood shampoos and punishments makes many Helots very nervous hence the mandate from heaven to put large swaths of evil people in charge of every aspect of their lives to protect them from some nebulous private threats.

            These people believe that drapetomania is a genuine disease.

            Bill Buppert

            • Jeebus.

              What a load of high falutin’, tortured, twisted, pompous assumptions and false assertions from ‘authority’ and arrogant, wholesale assignment of blame to great unidentified swaths of humanity.

              How collective of you Bill.

          • It translates, for those who need translation, to nothing but every man for himself.

            Yes, we know that is what you believe, having nothing but your singular self to care for or believe in. That is a “philosophy” so limited as to be useless for the purposes of this discussion.

            Your work here is over done.

            • “It translates, for those who need translation, to nothing but every man for himself.”

              And this in turn demonstrates what poor thinkers do when faced with the truth of matters—they lie.

              “Yes, we know that is what you believe, having nothing but your singular self to care for or believe in.”

              And then they lie some more. Yawn.

              • A repudiation of Libertarianism by a professional philosopher. It is inimical to the whole concept of the Nation, what to speak of the practices thereof. It’s “individuality” has a universal quality, open to everyone on Earth, “to be all they can be” and make as much money as possible. Thus it is an ally of Globalism – also the enemy of the Nation State. Thus we have to the old bottom up, top down Vise as envisioned by Gary Allen, crushing the Nation between its slavering jaws of metal.

                http://www.counter-currents.com/2015/10/the-refutation-of-libertarianism/#more-58375

            • outlawpatriot

              “Your work here is over done.”

              I might add, “Don’t go away mad, just go away.” 🙂

      • C’mon, Pete. You know The Paper can neither succeed nor fail… it’s the operation/operators. Supposed to be us.

        It will have to be “us” if anarchists get their wish as well. Fallible humans, whatever the case.

        Absolutes/utopias of all kinds fail due to “the entropy of human frailty,” as I have written here a few times.

        Any agreement to conduct our limited common business, with respect and protection for The Rights of Man (that’s what the Constitution was supposed to be), will only be as good and last as long as those party to it carry out their obligation to abide by and enforce the terms of the agreement. Yes, any new arrangement is likely doomed over time and for the same reasons but it’s all we can really do short of the perfection of mankind. Perfection of humanity cannot be accomplished by mankind (or even by individuals) as the progressives have amply demonstrated, their major flaw being the very idea of man as god and capable of perfecting society through the New Man.

        Those who wish to over simplify the problem to the point of “leave me alone or I’ll shoot you,” do not live in the real world. I sympathize with the anger and frustration, I truly do but…there are overwhelming numbers (and large groups) of people who are all too willing to shoot you first, and way too few of you to form temporary self defense groups.

        Some form of higher organizing principle will not only be necessary but inevitable.

        • outlawpatriot

          Not too shabby. 😉

          • I am not worthy.

          • Here is an excellent example of a free society, free because of how people think and act on that thinking. It’s important to keep in mind freedom is an activity, no piece of parchment, or rule of law substitutes that truth. Freedom is where the heart is.
            Personally, I consider it a defining masterpiece. And fun to read.
            http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php

            This one below will give you insights you most likely never knew existed. Patrick Henry figures large in it, along with a list of notable characters. It is quite a piece of critical thinking. The author had to maintain an astounding thread of logic to tie such a conspiracy, such a big delusion, together.
            As one guy whose personal avowed mission is to wage war on revised history and the big delusion said, “If Liberty Was the Object, Why Did They Give Us Centralism?”
            http://garynorth.com/philadelphia.pdf

        • “…there are overwhelming numbers (and large groups) of people who are all too willing to shoot you first, and way too few of you to form temporary self defense groups.”

          Yeah? With how many people did you interact, or even come across, last week? And how many of those, even in the absence of fear of punishment, were “all too willing to shoot you first”? And how many weren’t?

          You made a claim; let’s take a look at the data.

          • No data will be rendered.
            He speaks from that *illusory fear* I mentioned (on today’s masthead).

  5. On what to be done after the collapse does not the following still apply?

    “If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.” James Madison

  6. THEBigFatPanda

    Oh, I don’t know. Maybe we could try falling on our faces before God and begging His forgiveness for kicking Him out of our schools, out of our churches, out of our lives, out of our government.

    Maybe we could beg His forgiveness for sending our young men off to die in an endless litany of unjust wars foisted on us by the bankers and industrialists who needed new customers for their shiny new missiles?

    And while we’re at it, maybe (and here’s a radical idea) we could ask Him, “Oh, Lord of all creation, could You please, please, PLEASE forgive us for killing nearly 60 million babies in the womb?”

    Who the HELL are we to be talking about setting our COUNTRY right when WE aren’t right!?!?!? Matthew 7:5 – “You HYPOCRITE! First remove the log from your own eye, then worry about the speck in your brothers eye!” Jesus’s words, not mine.

    This country is TOAST. We CANNOT and WILL NOT vote or shoot our way out of this mess. PERIOD!!!!

    • Bingo. Stewie agrees.

      Unless there is a return to morality there will be no restoration, period.

    • The problem with the current system is the assumption of morality. It has been proven that it not only cannot stand immorality men, but cannot prevent the creation and conquest of immoral men.

      We cannot restore that flawed system at all, for it cannot prevent the immorality men from taking over even at the beginning.

      We must have a new system now though, for how else do you rally people to the cause? You must try to convince them that your system can stand all the assaults that come to it.

      Anarchy has not yet proven all of that, but it doesn’t have to yet. Too many want a system, so a system there will be. That system need only advance liberty in that direction, allowing it to prove insufficient against immorality again.

      In the meantime you need only prove–to this anarchist at least–that the new system will let them live as they will. A properly functioning government after all will be indistinguishable from intellectual anarchy since it won’t interfere with private lives right?

      • A properly functioning government after all will be indistinguishable from intellectual anarchy since it won’t interfere with private lives right?

        That would mean no taxes, no borders, no interfering with other peoples’ weapons or intoxicants or abortions. All it does it hang the car thieves.

    • outlawpatriot

      Yep. I’m in. 🙂

  7. Even if the mechanism drafted by fallible men who, among things, endorsed chattel slavery as a political concession to achieve political unity was capable of restraining central government power in the late 19th century, can anyone rationally that it does so today?

    Let’s use more revealing nouns:

    Even if the mechanism drafted by fallible men who, among things, endorsed chattel slavery as a DIVIDE AND CONQUER MILITARY STRATEGY to achieve MILITARY DOMINANCE was capable of restraining THOSE SAME FALLIBLE MEN WHO HAVE JUST ACHIEVED MILITARY DOMINANCE […]

    “The mechanism” and “the fallible men” cannot both be in the controlling and the controlled positions at the same time. “Consent of the governed” is a logical contradiction, and as such can only exist as a mistaken idea in a brain, not as a real situation. Central government power never controlled central government power in the late 19th century.

    In reply to Defensive Training Group in 2015/10/23/food-for-thought-8:

    Either you are a Statist, willing to hire killers to force innocent people to do stuff they don’t want to, or you are an Anarchist. There is no middle ground. The anarchists are saying ‘self-defense’, which means to drive off people who want to force you to do something. You are saying ‘government’, which means to force others to do something they don’t want. ‘Self-defense’ and ‘government’ are the two sides of the same violent human interaction. You are wanting to do government; you are surprised that anarchists don’t want to do government, because you believe anarchy is just government wearing this season’s fashionable hat. It isn’t. You should only be making rules for yourself to follow, no one else.

    The issue [DTG has] with cultural anarchism […] is that there are no objective or universal safeguards or boundaries against any behavior occurring an interaction.

    Neither are there any objective or universal safeguards or boundaries with statism; the rulers make the rules, which can say anything they want. Constitutions don’t work, and fantasizing they do is delusional. You keep wanting to empower a monopoly, a declaration that only one organization may decide final legal answers. Monopoly always produces high prices and bad service. Monopoly itself is the bad idea.

  8. “What is to be done after the collapse?”
    ================================

    What I’ve always done, look out for myself and mine, do the best I can in all things, treat all people with respect initially, be productive, teach and learn, and stand prepared to defend myself and others from all force, always.

    I don’t need a large criminal enterprise to make sure other people obey guidelines I have established for myself, in fact, I reject the very notion.

    There really is no other way unless you intend to violate the natural rights of others.

    Cowards and criminals will say, “But it’s never been done before (lie) and it will fail.”, but it is not up to them how I conduct myself, they only get to run their own affairs. The moment they try to run other people’s lives is the day they die from lead poisoning.

    Running the only life I’ll ever own is a full time job and if everyone seen their lives the same way no one would have the time to stick their fat, pock marked snouts into other people’s affairs and everyone would be much better off.

    It starts with you.

    Onward.

    • Rightfully so Ghost Sniper.
      Everything you said. Everything. Last but not least of it all you said, it starts with each of us.
      That is the greatest thing right there. From there everything springs forth.

      The Big Delusion has to turn into The Big Plurality.
      We all have to have each others backs and finish the job the first revolutionaries of liberty accomplished against the tyrants. We don’t have to agree on everything, or hardly anything, we can work those differences out after we get rid of those who are empowering themselves upon our past inability to unite against the bastards, its what liberty is about anyways, and with tyranny out of the way, we can do anything, (we can do anything now, we are all Free Men), we only need to hold common ground against the sonofabitches. Everything changes, We become the defining power. As a plurality we can not be denied. Its in our natural legitimacy.
      They can’t withstand a plurality of Freemen. They have no legitimacy. Only guns. We have guns too, and legitimacy.

      The square root of our legitimacy is the power of our plurality in liberty.
      As a plurality, we are liberty’s fulcrum, we increase or power at a exponential rate. Nothing can stand in our way.

      I think it is very wise to look at the sundering of the tyranny we face and the disease of cultural marxist working to deny us our natural God given freedoms as not a collapse, but as the greatest opportunity that can befall us.
      It is a great and profound new beginning.
      An opportunity to get our liberty and freedoms right, to finish what Patrick Henry and his brethren began.
      That is something worth fighting for, winning for.

      I think too, such a happening will bring people together like nothing in our history, it is time, it is right, it is proper and true honor is to be obtained in such efforts. For who here doesn’t feel the pull of destiny of their freedoms and happiness, a desire to realize what is good and right? To realize their potential prosperity, the whole fruits of our labors, to be free to choose the path unfettered by a state which meddles us and extorts us from every quarter? To be done with the threat of and use of violence the state employs, a cattle prod as a device to enslave and indenture us and steal our wealth.
      Fuck the whole lot of them!
      Its time to revolt.
      Time to tell them to shove it.

      I say also, in this way, we are able to find the common sense and rightful remedies to the future course which suits our character and dreams of prosperity and liberty. I believe we have to go through this great turmoil coming, it is a tribulation, a testing of what we are made of as men and and how we constitute an idea people.

      Specifically, keep it simple, return to first principles of compact of confederation prior to the signing of that wretched piece of parchment.
      The reasons for small states was rooted in the understanding that local sovereignty of the people who live in these sovereign nations can not be walled off from the seats of representative trust they elect to protect their property, prosperity and freedoms. It is that direct link which we can re-establish for our great benefit and happiness. That Patrick Henry and his band of brother antifederalists where unquestionably correct and the truth of their concerns must be revisited and employed, exemplified in our activities, as a guide to recourse and working living examples of practical solutions to the question of why and how to create a bulwark against the roots of tyranny sprouting and spreading its evil shoots.
      Their ideas and system are built in vigilance against tyrannical actors. It is local-local-local in nature. Those ideas embody and apply every principle of rightful primal liberty, nothing less, nothing more. No gimmicks, no sleight of hand, no promises, just simple self accounting self determining system which is the check and balance to protecting and preserving the basis, and increasing, the fruits of true liberty.

      The beauty of these ideas these people reasoned and set out was each state was different, it was a living breathing system of representative self determination. You could choose to live in any of them, free to go to what state you preferred. More self determination, more freedom, on top of thriving liberty and prosperity. This is what made us our greatness of spirit and prosperity.
      And it worked. It was a functioning system of our culture, of freedom. They had many kinks to work out, but they could work out the knots, that was the whole point, unfettered by a leviathan and administrative tyranny.
      This is where we must go. We preserve so much of whats great about ourselves as people and culture and commerce, free commerce by doing so, and weed out the undesirable components of what we are today.
      We, WE! get to choose these things. It is gravy from there, all gravy, because we make the gravy.

    • “Treat all people with respect, initially.” Words to live by. The blather that gets passed off as news is mind-numbing. The insult to anyone of modest intelligence is infuriating. Eventually, you have to turn off all the noise and concentrate on the things that you can do that will make a difference. I hear people say,” I am willing to die for my God given rights!’ How about being willing to live for your God given rights. You cannot change anyone. You can, however remove them from your life. Get busy.

    • “An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.” — T. Jefferson

      It is not you per se that is at issue, its the other guy. So the matter of governance is how to maximize the voluntary exchange of goods and idea with the least resistance and interference.

      • You maximize the voluntary exchange of goods by regulating and taxing it? Doesn’t sound logical offhand, and it particularly doesn’t sound like “least resistance and interference.”

        Meanwhile, “It is not you per se that is at issue, its the other guy.” Why is this? Even assuming the other guy is out to get you, why is that the responsibility of anyone else? Plus, in the vast majority of cases, the other guy isn’t out to get you. It might be worthwhile noting who exactly is…usually, they claim the “authority” to do exactly that.

        The comments above by anonymous and ghostsniper handily dispatch the entire issue, from the principle to the details.

        • Odd, Jim. I don’t believe I mentioned tax or regulation.

          But as Jefferson noted, you are not going to get general agreement on anything. Hence there have to be defined bounds and courts that review them. Otherwise you are at a Hatfield and McCoy’s reality.

          • “But as Jefferson noted, you are not going to get general agreement on anything.”

            Of course not. Who would want to, anyway?

            “Hence there have to be defined bounds and courts that review them.”

            “Review,” eh? Is that what they do? See, those who defend the indefensible invariably resort to euphemism. Nobody here cares about who “reviews” anything.

            Formally, your conclusion is a non sequitor. That people will never agree on everything does NOT imply that there must be rulers and slaves. It DOES imply that disagreement is not a sufficient reason to turn oneself into a thug, at least for rational men… and men who don’t wish to live as ruler or ruled.

            I’m sorry if you’re not capable of defining “bounds” for your own life. Just please understand that some of us can. And will.

        • “Odd, Jim. I don’t believe I mentioned tax or regulation.”

          No? That’s like saying you talked about “playing basketball” but didn’t mention putting a ball through the hoop. You mentioned “governance” alright…what do you suppose governments DO?

      • Ah yes, the *other guy*.
        There’s that fear thing I mentioned.
        If everyone has freedom on their mind there will be very few *other guys*.

        Most people do not want to get shot, so they gauge their behavior accordingly, no gov’t necessary. There will always be ne’er do wells and in the past they have always been dealt with.

        Non-thinkers have some how been convinced that an enormous body of criminals will protect them from the largely illusory *other guy* criminals.

        In the absence of gov’t most of us will go about our days and nights just like we do right now but without the knowledge that a giant overarmed force can cage or kill us in our sleep.

        • Ok, in 2014 there were a quarter million robberies nationwide. Those *other guys* were exercising their *freedom* to liberate other people’s stuff. Sad to say, these *other guys* factor being shot as an occupational hazard.

          Your solution?

        • “If everyone has freedom on their mind there will be very few *other guys*.”

          Ahhh, yes, the “if only… blah.” “Oh, if only everyone would agree with me…” the ubiquitous refuge of every narrow idealist/utopian.

          Never. Gonna. Happen.

          Hence the need for some mechanism other than “Don’t fuck with me!”

          • I don’t give a shit if anybody agrees with me or not, my recipe is MINE and I’ve never been robbed.

            MY way of thinking is that I don’t get to summons a large group of barbaric neanderthals to attack you just because.

            It’s already happening and has been all along.

      • You propose to achieve the least resistance and interference to voluntary exchange by deliberately adding</i< resistance and interference? That's backwards, you want to be removing resistance and interference. The fastest and easiest to remove is that which you have complete control over, because you added it.

    • SemperFi, 0321

      Bravo! Well said.
      I’m also a believer in “Lite gov’t”. But that seems unattainable today. My small Wyoming town doesn’t need the same gov’t as NYC or L.A., and as we have seen in the last 230+ yrs, greed and corruption are what the masses want, they line up to vote in the bigger tax thieves every 4 yrs. The system doesn’t work, period!
      The country can no longer work on the same system or boundaries that we started with. In NY state alone, the city folks want the country hicks dead, and vice-versa. So there now comes a time where we will have to set new borders; along religious, ethnic, cultural, political, etc. ideas and values, and perhaps people will have to resettle to find where they fit in best. I don’t have a problem using the USC/BoR, but it may end up being modified, for it doesn’t completely work as designed, or what we were told it was for.

      And a side note for those that consider bashing my patriotic beliefs because you don’t think I support this great nation and it’s military policies,…….you’re right;
      I swore an oath to defend the Constitution, which I still believe in (for the most part), but supporting a corrupt warmongering gov’t who kills to keep it’s stockholders wealthy is the most insane thing imaginable, actually, evil beyond comprehension. I despise this gov’t, and cannot support one single illegal act of war that it commits. My belief system is exactly that of Gen. Smedley Butler, we have no business overseas making the large corporations rich at the price of America’s youth. And I cannot buy into the patriotic lies that have led us into one war after another, for absolutely no reason but to keep the war machine producing profits.

  9. The Big Delusion has to turn into The Big Plurality.
    We all have to have each others backs and finish the job the first revolutionaries of liberty accomplished against the tyrants. We don’t have to agree on everything, or hardly anything, we can work those differences out after we get rid of those who are empowering themselves upon our past inability to unite against the bastards, its what liberty is about anyways, and with tyranny out of the way, we can do anything, (we can do anything now, we are all Free Men), we only need to hold common ground against the sonofabitches. Everything changes, We become the defining power. As a plurality we can not be denied. Its in our natural legitimacy.
    They can’t withstand a plurality of Freemen. They have no legitimacy. Only guns. We have guns too, and legitimacy.

    The square root of our legitimacy is the power of our plurality in liberty.
    As a plurality, we are liberty’s fulcrum, we increase or power at a exponential rate. Nothing can stand in our way.

    I think it is very wise to look at the sundering of the tyranny we face and the disease of cultural marxist working to deny us our natural God given freedoms as not a collapse, but as the greatest opportunity that can befall us.
    It is a great and profound new beginning.
    An opportunity to get our liberty and freedoms right, to finish what Patrick Henry and his brethren began.
    That is something worth fighting for, winning for.

    I think too, such a happening will bring people together like nothing in our history, it is time, it is right, it is proper and true honor is to be obtained in such efforts. For who here doesn’t feel the pull of destiny of their freedoms and happiness, a desire to realize what is good and right? To realize their potential prosperity, the whole fruits of our labors, to be free to choose the path unfettered by a state which meddles us and extorts us from every quarter? To be done with the threat of and use of violence the state employs, a cattle prod as a device to enslave and indenture us and steal our wealth.
    Fuck the whole lot of them!
    Its time to revolt.
    Time to tell them to shove it.

    I say also, in this way, we are able to find the common sense and rightful remedies to the future course which suits our character and dreams of prosperity and liberty. I believe we have to go through this great turmoil coming, it is a tribulation, a testing of what we are made of as men and and how we constitute an idea people.

    Specifically, keep it simple, return to first principles of compact of confederation prior to the signing of that wretched piece of parchment.
    The reasons for small states was rooted in the understanding that local sovereignty of the people who live in these sovereign nations can not be walled off from the seats of representative trust they elect to protect their property, prosperity and freedoms. It is that direct link which we can re-establish for our great benefit and happiness. That Patrick Henry and his band of brother antifederalists where unquestionably correct and the truth of their concerns must be revisited and employed, exemplified in our activities, as a guide to recourse and working living examples of practical solutions to the question of why and how to create a bulwark against the roots of tyranny sprouting and spreading its evil shoots.
    Their ideas and system are built in vigilance against tyrannical actors. It is local-local-local in nature. Those ideas embody and apply every principle of rightful primal liberty, nothing less, nothing more. No gimmicks, no sleight of hand, no promises, just simple self accounting self determining system which is the check and balance to protecting and preserving the basis, and increasing, the fruits of true liberty.

    The beauty of these ideas these people reasoned and set out was each state was different, it was a living breathing system of representative self determination. You could choose to live in any of them, free to go to what state you preferred. More self determination, more freedom, on top of thriving liberty and prosperity. This is what made us our greatness of spirit and prosperity.
    And it worked. It was a functioning system of our culture, of freedom. They had many kinks to work out, but they could work out the knots, that was the whole point, unfettered by a leviathan and administrative tyranny.
    This is where we must go. We preserve so much of whats great about ourselves as people and culture and commerce, free commerce by doing so, and weed out the undesirable components of what we are today.
    We, WE! get to choose these things. It is gravy from there, all gravy, because we make the gravy.

    • Doug, I love your spirit, but brevity is the soul of wit… and effective communication.

      • I understand its not always what you say 0-6, but how you say it that matters sometimes. But brother, how else can I attempt to convey these particular heart felt thoughts to you all? It is complicated stuff.
        Nothing is singular in the scope of what we are discussing here. Everything is connected. Every time we begin to argue points in isolation we loose the forrest for the trees. Happens all the time.

        How would you convey what I wrote?
        Maybe you have an economy of words that describes it better than I can that leads to a coherent thread of enlightening discourse?
        Put you money where your mouth is here.

        • “How would you convey what I wrote?”

          Funny. Trust me…he wouldn’t want to.

          “Put you money where your mouth is here.”

          Funnier yet. Guy’s written 9 comments so far in this thread, inevitably about the other guy and not the issues–even your STYLE for crissakes–but somehow hasn’t managed to answer the simple questions of fact put to him…

          “Yeah? With how many people did you interact, or even come across, last week? And how many of those, even in the absence of fear of punishment, were “all too willing to shoot you first”? And how many weren’t?”

          See, he’s got the answers for everyone else and he understands that they’re wrong, but somehow he can’t express how he’s right. And people seriously wonder how we got into the mess we’re in.

        • Not trying to tell you what to say, just that it will be better read and understood if more economically expressed. Trying to say everything all at once is often more confusing and obscuring of the message than saying it specifically and simply.

          Having read you since your MTP days, I generally know where your going but I rarely read all the way through 10 or more praagraphs. I may not be the only one.

          You are passionate and have ideas worthy of consideration. Your writing has grown considerably since MTP. I’m trying to encourage you to become even more effective, in spite of the fact that there are certain things about which I disagree with you.

          Just a nickel’s worth of friendly advice.

  10. indyjonesouthere

    Newspeak makes maintaining the meaning of words nearly impossible. What does “well regulated” mean to the modern government employee? What did it mean in the 1700’s? Catholics had the right idea when they kept their Mass in the old dead language of Latin. The new “modern” Mass….well, not so much.

  11. I would just imagine that many would need to be murdered in order to once again live a life envisioned in the Constitution.

  12. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on The Lynler Report.

  13. WalkingHorse

    Post collapse: build from the bottom-up. Keep the most local units small. Let each local unit designate a representative to work with representatives of other local units to address exclusively those issues that cannot be addressed at the local level, and so on. The principle is Subsidiarity, and no level up the hierarchy is empowered to define the extent of its powers and authority – that is defined by the local units, acting as a board of directors as they see fit. The only excuse for government is the protection of the Natural Rights of the individuals it serves.

    • No one can accurately represent you and me at the same time.
      No one gets to force their protection on me.
      Yes, in my world it’s all about me.
      In your world it’s all about you.
      Only lying criminals will say otherwise.

  14. “What is to be done after the collapse?”

    The question assumes there will be a collapse. If the PTB wanted a collapse, there would have been one by now. A collapse would be far too empowering for We-The-People (WTP). WTP might actually have a good chance to fix things given the gift of a collapse. So, a collapse is exactly what you are NOT going to get.

    What you will get is serfdom, austerity, third-world immigration, technocracy, political correctness, multiculturalism, vote fraud, sports, political drama, $9/hour jobs, shitty health care, unaccountable government, and plenty of memes to keep you waiting indefinitely for that perfect opportunity to actually do something.

  15. What is to be done after the collapse?
    ———————–
    First, we are in the collapse. All the signs point to it. 23% inflation per shadow stats. Personal GDP is back where it was in the 70’s. Jobs still headed overseas.

    Doing?
    ————————–
    Keep one thing in mind, whatever develops upwards of 200m people are going to have to be educated on the new political/economic/cultural facts. Also unlearn the old ways that caused it all.

    That is a monumental task.

    • It is up to each person as to how they are educated.
      There is nothing monumental about it.

      Heads are for thinking, Hearts are for feeling.

      • Heads are for thinking, Hearts are for feeling.
        ————————–
        Sadly these days its Hearts for thinking and Heads for blowing snow. Most will educate themselves like you say, but what do you do with those that don’t? Your fresh applecart of *freedom* will be riddled to pieces by those that don’t.

        Post revolution, the Tories took three options —
        1) Sold out and moved by to Britian.
        2) Sold out and moved to Canada.
        3) Made the best of it.

        But the inhabitants were educated by the tool of the day — the press. Worked then, but to be quite truthful I would not trust the current press to shine my shoes with that mission.

        • “…..but what do you do with those that don’t?”
          ===========================

          STOP suggesting other people’s issues are mine.
          You sound like someone that works for the gov’t.

          How in the hell do people get this way?

    • I can hardly wait…who’s doing the educating?

      I’m a little less anxious to hear…how?

      • Well, Jim, as you have said so often, reality always wins.

        It’s the greatest teacher of all. The lessons are either empowering or terminal… pass- fail, as Pete often says.

        We shall see. Rather, some of us might.

  16. “What is to be done after the collapse?”

    First thing we do is kill all the lawyers.

  17. What if those that wrote the paper just wanted to replace one tyrant with many worse tyrants? I thought this was a mind blower https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/10/max-mcnabb/everything-know-wrong/

  18. SFC Steven M Barry USA RET

    The question was, “What is to be done after the collapse?”

    Nobody answered the question.

    If by collapse is meant the total failure of governance and social institutions (such as they are — the question is not whether they are good or not) then by any measure the US is fucked. It will not take many years (maybe less, i.e. during the first winter) for this society to degenerate into savagery. At least in the urban and suburban areas.

    Why?

    Because it has nothing to rebuild on.

    Let’s say The Collapse is global. A country like France would have something to rebuild on. France is a people, it has a (very long) history, it has a culture and a cultural memory, it has traditions, it has (whether it remembers or not) a religion. What does the US have to rebuild on? Nothing. The US is not a people — it is mongrel. The US has no history — it is an artificial construct. The US has no tradition — (tradition is “our fathers told us” not the latest fad). The US has no religion — except the religion of “Me.” (cf. most of the above comments.)

    “After the collapse” everything is going to be local. There is not going to be any national or state anything. Bleary-eyed emotionalism about some “USC/BoR” (which will be dead — thank God) will be outright seditious. Seditious because the only way a community can be (in this country) even remotely salvaged is by local dictatorship.

    And no, there will be no “social compact,” and your consent will not be solicited.

    “After the collapse” local community must immediately revert to an agricultural society. And if the above comments are any indication it will have to be a slave based agricultural society.

    S//

    • outlawpatriot

      Bugs, you never cease to amaze. 😀

    • Hey pal, you seem to forget the total opposite to your future succeeded already.
      By the way, I went to great pains to answer the question. My answer is the loose compact of states was working, and they where figuring things out, evolving. Right there is a great deal of working proof of a viable well documented what to do.
      I carefully read your comment, and within it I could not detect a single shred of what to do after. All I could garner from your words was resistance is futile to the inevitable.
      Have you ever considered giving credit there is a plurality of people out here that have the smarts and motivation, the legitimacy to do what the original revolutionaries did before that piece of parchment was ratified?

      Im trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but brother you seem to have no faith in the good and see only the worst in others.

  19. The Walkin' Dude

    After the collapse, most of us will die. Those of us who survive will just do the same thing over again. History is full of collapses. A perfect ending would be if Klaatu just went ahead and let GORT destroy the world 🙂

  20. I sit in amazement at all of you arguing and debating what will happen after this so-called collapse. Let me be on record for saying none of us will ever see a reset of anything american- ever. Go ahead and laugh all you want, but they have been planning this for decades. I’m laughing at anyone who believes this country cannot be invaded. Wake the fuck up.

    http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2015/10/31/obama-and-his-cia-family-are-the-manifestation-of-a-multi-generational-soviet-plot-to-destroy-america/

    …Golitsyn and the Scissors Plan

    “Golitsyn stated that Russia, after lulling America to sleep, will join with China in order to attack the United States from both the outside and inside as he detailed that “In each of these the scissors strategy will play its part; probably, as the final stroke, the scissors blades will close. The element of apparent duality in Soviet and Chinese policies will disappear. The hitherto concealed coordination between them will become visible and predominant. The Soviets and the Chinese will be officially reconciled. Thus the scissors strategy will develop logically into the ‘strategy of one clenched fist’ to provide the foundation and driving force of a world communist federation…before long, the communist strategists might be persuaded that the balance had swung irreversibly in their favor. In that event they might well decide on a Sino-Soviet ‘reconciliation.’ The scissors strategy would give way to the strategy of “one clenched fist.” The enemies now are gathered from within. At that point the shift in the political and military balance will be plain for all to see.

    The inking of the recent energy deal which married the economies of the Russians and the Chinese is the manifestation of Golitsyn’s revelations.

    As I stated earlier, the death of the Petrodollar means that you will not a have job to go to tomorrow. Because of Obama, the Chinese own our money. Which means they own your mortgage, retirement and savings accounts. Everything you own, is controlled by the Chinese. Soon, they will be coming to collect.

    My insider military sources tell me that plans for an American guerrilla warfare resistance are being put into play as we speak. This means that millions of us are going to die at the hands of foreign invaders and from being caught in the crossfire….”

    • Common Sense Show. LMAO. I’m still waiting, after ALL THESE YEARS, for photo’s and video’s of the massive USSR troops (and Chinese) hiding in plain site on American soil ready to strike at any moment.

      And the BEST that Dave can come up with, is pictures of 22 Russian Para’s training with the 10th SOF at Ft. Collins.

      • Yet you read and post there. Heh.

        China gave the world Sun Tzu. Do you not think they have studied him? Do you not think they can ship those troops here on their own good time? Look up Operation Overlord. Now look up COSCO. Then look up Port of Long Beach. Don’t think they can pull it off? Heh. Heh. Heh.

        • Well shit! Of course. They are all in deep sleep inside shipping containers just waiting to be energized from sleep.

          And… and… erp-do-doop… “Yet you read and post here. Heh.”

          Yeah… and? I like Pete’s blog. I “get” where he comes from, although I may not always agree with him. You? Who are you? Still LMAO.

          • There. It reads- there.
            You really need to calm down a bit. I’m not the enemy Curtis. So you don’t believe an invasion is possible, fine. But unlike you, I not only think it’s possible, I think it has already taken place. As far as Pete is concerned, I am in full agreement on everything he says… The guys a true visionary and an eloquent statesman. Enough so, that I even sold my very comfortable rural home and am in the process of purchasing a wonderful island estate because of it. 🙂

            • Calm down? WTF? I was LMAO.

              Well… pat on the head for you.

              Anyhow, I think it is possible too. But don’t worry, they are not hiding out in the woods and mountains and desert and Conex boxes in Long Beach. If they come, it will be to come and clean up… not before.

  21. This fellow Al Benson has a lot to say on the merits of writing about, and writing of the truth.
    I think Outlaw Patriots comments on Patrick Henry deserve serious critique, and I say this because of his remarks concerning Henry being chewed for arse paper at the constitutional convention.
    Of course they chewed him to pieces, Henry was right. They couldn’t tolerate a guy like Henry, he knew the truth and wasn’t fearful of telling it. The fuckers, same fuckers today, had a Big Delusion to run, they couldn’t afford to let Henry and the rest of the antifederalist run wild. It was administrative tyranny they wanted, tyranny by parchment fiat was what they where going to cram up everyones ass, and the con was on.

    In that light this deserves posting in entirety.

    If Liberty Was the Object, Why Did They Give Us Centralism?
    Posted on November 10, 2014
    by Al Benson Jr.

    The issue seemed clearer to some (but not all) in 1787. When the Constitution was presented for ratification in Virginia the issues were much better understood than they are today. Of course people back then had not had the dubious “benefit” of our government school system with its obfuscations and omittances regarding our history. It was pretty well understood in Virginia, as well as in other areas, that the issue was a strong federalism, or centralism, as opposed to a loose confederacy of state governments where states rights were to be the rule–the dreaded (by historians) Compact Theory!

    In his speeches against ratification Patrick Henry noted that the delegates in Philadelphia had overstepped their bounds in that they had not been sent there with power to create a central government, but only to amend the Articles of Confederation. However, in light of the results of that convention it does seem that some went with other motives in mind. Henry warned the Virginia delegates that they were not to consider how they could increase trade nor how they could become a great nation, but rather how their liberty could be secured. Henry said, and quite accurately, “…for liberty ought to be the direct end of your government.” He made another prescient statement in this regard when he said: “If you give too little power today, you may give more tomorrow. But the reverse of the proposition will not hold. If you give too much power today, you cannot retake it tomorrow, for tomorrow will never come for for that.” In light of the direction this government has gone in from 1787 until now, does any sane person wish to argue with Mr. Henry’s logic?

    Author, economist and columnist Gary North wrote a book almost twenty years ago now called Political Polytheism which dealt with much of this. For starters he noted that: “…The Constitution removed Christian religious tests as the judicial requirement of the judges and officers of the new national government. That, in and of itself, delivered the republic into the hands of the humanists. Nothing else was necessary after that. From that point on the secularization of America was a mopping-up operation.” That’s a much different assessment than most of us have been fed regarding the Constitution, even in Christian circles, or might I say, especially in Christian circles? I have to admit that when I first saw North’s book and skimmed it, I was a little hesitant about his thesis. As the years have passed I have become much less so.

    And he made another trenchant observation, one that many of us, myself included, had not even thought of at the time. I since have come to where I can see his logic. He said: “The sought-for Constitutional balance of the one and the many, apart from the Bible and Old Testament case laws, is unattainable.” In other words you cannot have the proper relationship between a central government and the state governments apart from Scripture. So the further this country departs from Scripture and God’s law the more impossible it will be for us to really do anything right, especially in the area of differing governmental jurisdictions. By the same token, the “checks and balances” we have been told will keep the different branches of the national government in their proper spheres won’t work either.

    North also noted that: “Like Newton’s universe apart from God’s constant, active providence, the ‘balanced Constitution’ will eventually move toward centralized tyranny (the fear of the Anti-Federalists) or toward dissolution (the fear of the Federalists). Both movements took place in 1861-65.” The Anti-Federalists feared tyranny; the Federalists feared secession. North’s comments add a whole different perspective to the question of the Constitution and what it really says.

    Back in August of 2004, Gary North wrote an article called Conspiracy In Philadelphia. He also wrote a book by the same name. He observed: “In 1787 the states, with one exception (Rhode Island) were explicitly based on faith in God. In most cases, elected state representatives were required to swear their belief in the Trinity. The new constitution made all such oaths illegal for federal office (Article VI, Clause III). By means of the 14th Amendment (1868), the U.S. Supreme Court has applied this prohibition to state governments completing the transformation in the case of Torcasso vs. Watkins (1961). I told this story fifteen years ago. In response, the silence has been deafening.” Mr. North, like many of us over the years, has learned that the movers and shakers, the ruling elite, the country’s “other masters” will simply ignore what they do not want dealt with, and they press their lackeys in the “news” media to do the same, and the media bombards us with sports extravaganzas and “reality shows” to the point where we do not have the time or inclination for any serious reflection. If the truth can be out there and almost totally ignored by the general populace, Christians included, they don’t even have to bother shoving it down the “memory hole” anymore. Most people today will gaze at the plans for their own destruction and that of their kids–and yawn.

    However, for the unusual few that may be concerned about the truth and how it might affect their children and grandchildren, Mr. North has posted his book Conspiracy In Philadelphia on the Internet, from which it can be downloaded. My son downloaded it for me and for a friend of mine at church. It can be found at http://www.garynorth.com/philadelphia.pdf and I would encourage those who have genuine concerns about our “founding document” and its background to download North’s book and see what he has to say. Knowing about Mr. North, I am sure his analysis will be penetrating and worth your time.

    https://revisedhistory.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/if-liberty-was-the-object-why-did-they-give-us-centralism/

  22. Jay typed: “After the collapse: I believe we should give the leftwing liberals/ Democrats/Syrian immigrants/ Muslim lovers/etc. exactly what they desire… Let them form their versions of Diversity Utopia in the big cities (and fence them off from the rest of the natural world). I expect to see something far different from the cumbaya moments occur therein.”

    Ghostsniper typed: “What I’ve always done, look out for myself and mine, do the best I can in all things, treat all people with respect initially, be productive, teach and learn, and stand prepared to defend myself and others from all force, always.”

    To me, these two points are key to “what is to be done after the collapse”.

    Hold on a second, let me outline this. Especially you, Jim, I know you like to argue. 🙂

    Here’s my outline: people in general have two primary mental blocks to living in Rightful Liberty;
    1-they’re impatient
    2-they’re selfish

    All of us that discuss such matters here, don’t have this problem. We’ve moved beyond most of society in our thinking and worldview, because we realize that current events are bigger than us. That gives us credit for being intelligent adults, and it means we recognize everything isn’t about us all the time. For the majority of adult people in our current society, I’m thinking of the 20 to 60 age bracket, and for that group I will use the number of 90%, life revolves around teevee, sports, or the latest drivel from the image whores of hollyweird. These people wouldn’t be able to understand Rightful Liberty, let alone actually live in it, if it bit them on the ass. Which is their choice, as aggraving as that is to us.

    Now, for Jay’s point;
    -this idea was also outlined in the Ashes book series by William Johnstone. I don’t have the book in front of me, so I can’t quote page and book. And it’s not a bad thought, if these “worthys” so eagerly desire to live in their utopia, what would be wrong with giving them a section of the country and saying, “have at it”. The obvious first thought is, what will these people do when their utopia fails, the answer is that they’ll come begging for help, whether that’s food, water, shelter, or whatever, and the obvious reply is, “piss off, you wanted this, live with it.” This leads to the point, why should they be turned away with nothing.

    And that leads into the point from GS;
    -if, after the collapse, people are seeking help, whether it’s from the group Jay described, or people who managed to survive the ruckus in whatever city/town they managed to get out of, and they don’t have anything or they have very little, the reaction of most people would be to help them. The problem with that is people talk, and the info would get passed on, that a group living over in “this area” has blankets and food, and soon enough the group GS is a part of would be surrounded by people demanding everything, because they were too stupid to give attention and thought to world events, and because they didn’t consider that those manipulating these events didn’t give a fuck about them, so they merrily danced through the illusion of society without thinking of the future. And now they’re worried about surviving. What they don’t consider is that they’ll have more of a chance to survive if they don’t try to take what GS and his group have, because they’ll get shot with little hesitation.

    So, that brings up the thought, why should these people be turned away with nothing. The obvious answer is that they chose to not think and plan and share ideas, as we have been doing for several years. Networking, in cyberspace or meatspace, has always been the key. But we know that 🙂

    If the next thought is, “well, if we don’t help them, they’ll die”, so what. Death is everyone’s promise at birth. Their lack of planning shouldn’t be the concern of any group that was well prepared for the future. They chose their path, let them eat skunk cabbage.

    Now, there is a caveat to this-if said group of stragglers is willing to genuinely and completely change their view, to reflect and understand that the way of life they were living was a lie, and to accept that change by agreeing to live in Rightful LIberty, which is based on thousands of years of decent standards of society, standards such as Manners, Discretion, Intelligent Critical Thinking, Self Reliance, Honesty, et al,………. then it would be up to the entire group to accept these people or not. And if some of the new people decided to go back to the old habits, that would be on their head. Those who don’t respect the Rights of others have no excuse when they’re held to account. And that also applies to what GS typed above, that if people choose to live by the standards of thousands of decent living, that’s a hell of a lot better than what we have now, because in his words, “Most people do not want to get shot, so they gauge their behavior accordingly, no gov’t necessary.”

    • “These people wouldn’t be able to understand Rightful Liberty, let alone actually live in it, if it bit them on the ass.”

      No argument from me since that’s exactly right, but you’re overthinking the reason for it, possibly because you too bought into some of the bullshit. It’s much simpler than you say—they don’t want to accept the responsibility that goes along with it.

      That’s all, and it’s their choice. The responsibility is there anyway.

      • Point taken, Jim, although I didn’t mention the responsibility factor because, to me, that’s automatically included. Most of the FSA, obviously, will disagree with us, but as you said, it’s their choice.

    • Gog I think your point is an essential element here.
      Rightful Liberty works because it is a natural self regulating system of way of living. It is why it is rightful liberty to begin with. Its very being is that it requires no state or outside control to function.
      That itself is why it is so difficult to understand, because you have to live it to be it. And because of that, the leap between this and what is now is a leap of faith.

      Does that correspond with what you wrote above?

      • Yes, Doug, that corresponds, I may have used too many words to outline the premise, but I wanted to be specific in my explanation, so what the hell. 🙂

    • A thinker, very good.

      The problem with *those people* is that they are overtly lazy.

      They do not prepare until it is too late to do so, then they expect others to help them out. (grasshopper & ant)

      There are people in this very thread that think that way, they cling to this imaginary device called a constitution.

      It is incomprehensible to them that they are in this thing called life all alone, dependent on no one and beholding to no one.

      They have been trained from birth to believe only groups can survive, and someone must lead these groups.

      All the facts are right there before them yet they refuse to believe their own lying eyes.

      As the dock they are standing on starts to crumble they will climb over each other attempting to grasp onto the ship as it leaves, only to have their lazy fingers cut off at the wrists.

      If they were allowed to board they would simply enact their lazy practices all over again.

      They have spent their whole lives committing suicide and killing everyone else around them, let them succeed.

      Live, as you expect others to.

      Onward.

    • I’ve read a few of those Air Force ‘how to survive if you are marooned on an island’ manuals, and none of them said to elect a legislature and vote yourself 52 weeks of unemployment payments.

      Every adult knows where Uncle Sugar’s money comes from. People who vote for a living keep repeating the BS story that government creates wealth without work, because it causes people of goodwill like yourself to give them the benefit of the doubt. “I paid into Social Security!!” Sure you did, buddy, and you’re trying to get out several times more than you put in. I can’t wait until restaurants are full of 70 year olds waiting tables.

  23. SemperFi, 0321

    What is to be done after the collapse?

    I guess the survivors will work it out with the same patriotic cohesion we have today, the rest being dead or hanging out in their respective religious clubhouses.

  24. When the circular firing squad Civil War is over, ya’ll put your “long knives” on the table and sort it out. Watching this crap going on for 37 years now, and the “Patriot Bowel Movement” STILL can’t figure it out, or at the LEAST, come to an amicable understanding/agreement.

    I’ll let ya all on something. Assuming that this FreeFor Bowel Movement gets going, and assuming that FreeFor wins, what-ever that means, and assuming that ANY of you live through it… none of you will be at the table.

    Now, since the constitution is not holy parchment enough for some of you, and the articles of confederation are not holy parchment for some of you, if I may suggest, maybe the DoI is holy parchment for enough for you… and ya’ll can start there? Start there? Start? Move? Move on? Move on from there? Do something? Something predicated on the DoI? Then, after you have all kicked ass for liberty and “Rightful Liberty”, the generation that is left, that has prevailed, the survivors of the fight for “Rightful Liberty” can work out “What kind of government do we have Mr. Benjamin”?

    The fact is, while it is hopeful, and kind of… exciting… to think so… none of us here are going to be a footnote in the future history of liberty. Assuming there will even be such a thing.

    It has to start somewhere. And it sure as hell ain’t going to start when ya’ll figure what “kind” of government/no government YOU want.

    Man… I betcha that sucked, huh?

  25. colddeadhandsdays

    You want liberty. Kill every son of a bitch that opposes it. PERIOD. Then shut the borders and be VERY SELECTIVE about who you let in. Arm yourselves to the TEETH with tech weapons facing out because people WILL want to come take what’s yours. Screw everyone else. We have EVERYTHING we need to have a VERY prosperous society here in the USA with American people, using American resources on American soil. But you’ll have to eradicate the surge. Got guts? Seriously.

    • The killing will never stop until someone gets a group big & bad enough to stop it and then we are right back here arguing about it…Everyone has a different version of what liberty is so the stench of death will be the flavor of the day…Since Adam ate the apple it has been might makes right whether it was a King was ruling, a government, anarchy whatever… It has always been might makes right…As long as you have human nature it will always be that way…Like was said above without a moral people there will never be a solution…And without God you won’t have a moral people…

      • colddeadhandsdays

        Yes we are moral people but what is to be done about amoral people? We cannot judge them by our standards so where does that leave us if we let them live?

        • Everyone thinks they are a “moral” people. And everyone will be killing everyone by their standards, principles, morals. virtues, self-righteousness… and just for the hell of it.

          • SemperFi, 0321

            Absolutely!
            Here is the proverbial snake eating it’s tail………..it never ends. One groups is always more moral than the next.

        • It’s not your reponsibility to live other peoples’ lives for them. They make a choice each day to work or to steal, and if you catch them stealing you kill them.