Breaking: Malheur Open Thread

Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 9.36.42 PM

Via Twitter.

Twitter #malheur feed

http://www.examiner.com/article/live-feed-of-standoff-at-malheur-wildlife-refuge-oregon

https://www.fbi.gov/portland/press-releases/2016/fbi-surrounds-occupiers-at-the-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge

78 responses to “Breaking: Malheur Open Thread

  1. Hands up. Don’t shoot. You have no other options. Live to fight another day. May the Lord be with you.

  2. You Tube has a Live stream almost 32,000 people are listening.
    No matter how you feel about this, these are Americans and they need our Prayers. Thank you.

  3. Shinmen Takezo

    Sounds like complete chaos inside this place.
    Some hot-head in the background cannot control himself (nme David?) and is shouting to the FBI outside.

    Everyone should listen to this as it unfolds–it is a case study in disorganization.

    I don’t think this will end peacefully–it will be perhaps the first time government al murders are broadcast live.

    Some Nevada assembly woman is on the phone (Michell Fiori sp?) with them and says she is in route to the refuge to negotiate with the FBI. DC thugs refuse to answer phones to negotiate.

    Everything is going FUBAR it seems.

  4. I hope the crisis actors got their releases signed.

  5. FUBAR. These guys aren’t George Washington or anything, but I really, really hate to see FedGov fixing to LaVoy some fellow citizens. What was that about “no more free Wacos?”

  6. Shinmen Takezo

    Jeeze they even haveRev Franklin Graham on the phone with them.

  7. All the snow and Winter kind of makes exfiltration undetected a life endangering task. Even the Taliban try to lay low in the Winter.
    Only one group of people I have ever learned about did reasonably well in the Winter.
    Not a Finnish person among them at the refuge.

  8. You civilians ready to start listening to your betters?

    • Last I knew, you were a civilian also. But I’m willing to listen to what you say.

      Betters? I’m willing to learn.

    • You’re retired? Then you’re a civilian. If you think you have something useful spill it.

      • When one “retires” from the military one’s Retirement Orders (“orders” — get it?) read shortly down the first paragraph, “…subject to recall at the pleasure of the Secretary of the Army.”

        For those of you who are publicly “educated,” there can be no recall unless one is subject to be returned, and there can be no subjection to be returned unless one is still under orders. (cf. first sentence.)

        “Retire” is in reality a (typically stupid) civilianized equivocal popcorn fart. In the military “retire” really means retained under half-pay.

        And if I’m a (shudder) civilian, why do I have a INDEF Military ID?

        So, calling me a civilian is like some nigger calling me a cracker. It just doesn’t stick.

        “Something useful…” If an Old SF ODA had planned the Malheur thing, you Bozzos would still have a negotiating position.

        Don’t like the delivery? Get back on the bus, Basic is not for you.

        S//

        • We appreciate the vast depth of knowledge you bring to the table, but I find it amusing how you have somehow convinced yourself that you are somehow part of an exclusive club above the so-called fray. You are nothing more than an expendable asset and that status hasn’t changed since you signed your enlistment papers. An INDEF classification doesn’t change that.

          • Shinmen Takezo

            “Expendable asset?!!” –you are giving him waaaay too much credit here.

            “Expendable thing” is more like it.
            Like an empty tube of toothpaste.
            Like an old toilet paper tube.

            This is what military is really considered by the DC regime/s.
            Why do you think they call them “war fighters” now?
            Why do you think every encounter with the VA is an uphill battle?
            Answer: to mitigate the damages, or negate them completely.

            When they can be replaced by AI robots, then they are out the door, with their asses skidding on the sidewalk faster than the speed of light… and don’t laugh, becase this is coming within a generation or so.

            Also if you are in any of the US military (using that term loosely) now, you are just a “collaborator” and not serving the interests of the US people, nor really protecting this country, nor upholding the US constitution.

            • “Also if you are in any of the US military (using that term loosely) now, you are just a “collaborator” and not serving the interests of the US people, nor really protecting this country, nor upholding the US constitution.”
              As far as I know, Max Velocity is still in the Federal US Army Reserves, so are you saying he’s a “collaborator”?

        • That took awhile. Was Matlock on?

    • Naaah. Besides, if we were all the kings horses and all the kings men, I’d likely be YOUR better. I don’t remember exactly how hight foot-soldiers rated in the British social castes, but lets not get too caught up in intellectual consistency. I have been told I’m a good boss though, so in the event we ever devolve back into a monarchist regime…be sure to drop an application off at my desk. All poking fun aside, the question is not about expertise. As these constructs and titles you so closely associate with your worth decay, it presents an interesting dilemma. What happens when SF turns into a shadow of what it once was because of gender integration. Is the tranny who ran a 6 min. mile and did 50 pushups to qualify for Seal Team Fabulous my better? You’re an intriguing person, and unlike many here who have already written you off because of your terrible delivery, I for one have been curious exactly where you’re coming from. I don’t understand your rubric, measuring stick, whatever you want to call it. Maybe I never will, but I don’t get the point of the animus if you’re wanting people to actually adopt your worldview.

      • Wish I’d had the wit and patience to have written that^^^^^^^^!

        You are the kind of youngster that gives me hope.

        Thanks.

      • Don’t feed the trolls.

        There are plenty of veterans, including some former Special Forces guys, who are crucial members of the liberty movement. They offer training classes, write helpful books and articles, and/or make videos to share their knowledge and experience in order to help civilians prepare for what is coming down the pike.

        What they don’t do is troll strangers on the internet.

      • Barry is our very own Sgt. Hakeswell.

      • outlawpatriot

        Bugs is some arrogant, fucked up, tory/nazi mixture that should be avoided at all costs. Be wary too of anybody that would associate with him.

    • Colonel Sgt St. Steven o’ Barry, Knight Errant of the Holy Moly! Empire.

      Kneel, vassals, knaves, yeomen and serfs!

      Harken unto the wisdom of your betters!

      Kiss the ring of your Liege Lord!

      Do go and do anatomically impossible things to yourself, Steve. You’ll find that infinitely more rewarding and in more in keeping with your narcissism than lashing out at the recalcitrant peasants.

      Or, if you are indeed the originator of SF Underground, which seems unlikely, I pray you recover your former zeal, eloquence and dedication, and rejoin the move of Liberty.

      Or was that just youthful narcissism?

    • FYSH.
      That’s something I would expect Shitlery or Buck Ofama to say.

    • Barry,

      You would do well to pull your head out of your rectum and start to understand that neither YOU nor the folks you refer to as “civilians”, are NOT ! We, you, whether you like it or not,, are CITIZENS ! There is a difference between a “civilian” and a “citizen”. Your constant referral to folks as “civilians” promotes the attitude that the common, taxpaying chump is a lesser person by virtue of his not being .mil, former or current.

      But, you still live in your make-believe world that you possess some magic quality because you ONCE were black boot Army 20 years ago. Stop living in the past man. And understand that those who search for the Freedom we once had are not civilians. We are CITIZENS !

      You are no longer a member of the military. You are just another no-nothing, common slob, tax paying, can’t-find-a-family-sustaining-wage untermenschen like the rest of us.

      • Sgt. Barry has done some things that are truly useful to the anti-commie crowd. Can’t post most of it. Subversion of the State Departments’ pro commie actions in Haiti come to mind. Training others in the US and abroad in certain skills, etc. He sometimes “doesn’t play well with others”.

        • “…If you cannot create harmony — even vicious harmony — on the battlefield based on trust across service lines, across coalition and national lines, and across civilian/military lines, you need to go home…” – GEN James Mattis, USMC (Ret.)

    • You military guys ready to start listening to your betters?

  9. This is what we have to look forward to.

  10. Very sad. Sounds like scared children. They are in way over their heads.

  11. Shinmen Takezo

    I’m gonn’a make some analysis here

    FBI cuts off all power to the refuge.
    FBI intentionally moves in after dark with armored vehicles and surrounds them
    FBI has made some very detailed psychological evaluations on all the actors in the refuge–and have made the above moves intentionally to provke these people over the edge. If you listen, they/them are getting the exact responses they want.

    These people are now paniced, irrational and desperate–right where the FBI wants them, and wants them to make some seemingly irrational move to justify violence. Michell Fiori is on the phone with them and seemingly unable to talk them down and to talk sense into them.

    If you ever wondered what transpired inside Waco and all the panic and confusion which occured–you are heaing it live now.

    I just got off the phone with someone who is in contact with Sherrif Mack–and I am told that Mack is going up there. Don’t know his present location. Someone like Mack, Franklin Graham, or Fiori needs to get inside and walk these people out in the daylight.

    • Let’s be fair: they were panicked, irrational, and desperate before they went to Malheur.
      They weren’t going to suddenly rise to unknown new heights of professionalism once they arrived.
      I hope for their own sakes they have the wits to surrender peacefully and come out standing up, not feet first.
      I’d much rather see four jury nullifications, or wrist slaps, than four more needless coffins.
      What needs to die a quick death is this level of amateurish dumbassery.
      Bad enough that their headless chicken routine is going to live on YouTube forever.

  12. Poor guys, they just don’t understand. They are in a bad situation and I don’t see them getting any help.

  13. Fiori tried to negotiate entry while she was still at the Airport, and was told no one was to be granted entry.

  14. So melodramatic. This is so ridiculous.

  15. My sentiments exactly, it’s hard to listen too… you can hear the stress in their voice..

  16. Jesus. This hurts to listen to. Were they my clients I’d be half a bottle of Blantons in, anticipating hearing it over, and over, and over, and over again in court. I can only imagine the stress, but not talking is always a good option when confronted with the Kings men. When people are willing to die to be heard, how much longer until they are willing to kill for it? Houston, we have a problem.

    • +200

      There is a reason this broadcast is being allowed by .gov.

    • I can’t take the current occupiers seriously. They may be willing to die. From what I’ve seen of their antics, I can’t say they may be willing to kill. I do think that the afterbirth has been left in place at Malhuer refuge HQ. Most others are learning lessons (many) and figuring out how to be better in the next go’round.

  17. After listening to this live stream I fully understand why this situation turned out the way it did. These people are in completely over their heads. Rational thought and logic left the building long ago. Where is their legal team, anyway?

  18. how many rounds of 7.62mmx54 ball does it take to breach forward facing ballistic glass/windscrean on a U.S. milspec vehicle. 556. 62 gr M855?

  19. This can only go two ways: they walk out real nice and easy and give up to the bastards and go to club fed for a long time, or they eat some hot roast lead sangwiches.

    fbi is running out of patience with these four people with the quickness.

  20. Let’s hope this ends well for these people. Let this be a lesson to those who don’t possess military discipline when faced with dire straits.

  21. The commentary on the twitter feed is hard to take as well. There are a lot of boot lickers out there, without any shame either.

  22. Well, what a clusterfuck…

    This is not a Militia. This is Joe’s armed gang of Patriots. No discipline, no control, no rational plan. I am torn between pity and scorn.

    AND JUST FOR THE RECORD… not ONE well regulated Militia was in attendance at any point. The word Militia was not in ANY of the federal indictment docs. The Militia meme was promoted by Gov and the Media. And perhaps by the Bundys.

    I am so sick of any group of folks with guns using the term. If you do not have a code of conduct, bylaws, chain of command, elections, selections, regular qualifications and regular real world training YOU are not a Militia. No Uniform? NO patch? No unit identifier? You are NOT well regulated Militiamen, as far as WE are concerned.

    Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention
    A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
    1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
    2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:
    (a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
    (b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
    (c) That of carrying arms openly;
    (d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

    6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

    Having said all that, we did support the SPIRIT of the normal protesters! But, once local support was voided, and multiple APs exposed, and glaring errors in strategy, tactics, logistics, intelligence and security pointed out, they went ahead anyway. FROM THAT MOMENT ONWARD they were fucked. Well and truly fucked. Not ONE unit east of the Rockies mobilized for this. We alerted in our local AOs, for sure. Our focus remains the same as it always was:
    FAMILY
    COMMUNITY
    COUNTY
    COUNTRY
    CONSTITUTION

    WHEN POLITICAL ELEMENTS (III%ERS, OATHKEEPERS, PATRIOT NETWORKS) TAKE ACTION ON THE CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE FRONT THEY NEED TO OWN IT.

    Everyone wants to be Militia, until its time to do Militia shit.
    Everyone wants to speak for us, get support from us, claim our allegiance.
    Then treat us as the red-headed step-children of the Liberty Movement.

    At least the Professionals; JC Dodge, Max, Moseby, Pinelander and others don’t pretend to be our allies. In spite of the pretenses of some of them they care about us enough to be truthful from their own perspective and experience. Hell half our guys are veterans, many in their 20s-30s.

    We don’t advertise, we don’t make threats or bluster. We watch and act when when our LOCAL leadership requires it. NO local Militia in Oregon asked for assistance. And we owe no allegiance to corrupt bureaucrats (elected or not) at the state or federal level. Once the broke faith with us, and violated their oaths they LOST ALL LEGITIMACY with us.

    WE LIVE in a constant state of rebellion. We have been targeted for assassination, entrapment, IRS persecution and negative media propaganda for DECADES.

    90% of you don’t even know us.

    So quit pretending to be us. Read the IRA green Book and STFU.

    ps: No Militias were advised of this fiasco prior to the seizure.

    Sorry Peter, I tried to keep the peace. Really I did.

  23. The ruthless Darwinian Selection that occurred among Iraqi Insurgents is happening live here.
    That eventually bred the lunatics running around there today calling themselves ISIL.
    The FBI Obviously wants to make examples of these guys.
    Find Fix Eliminate.
    They exposed themselves, they fixed themselves by taking a stand in a place with no easy escape, now the last phase is upon them.

    The operatives and political faces cannot be one and the same.
    It didn’t work out for Che’ after he left Cuba.
    Other than Gerry Adams, what other names come to mind that are associated with the IRA to us over here that didn’t live through it?

    Difficult to hit and run when your face is all over the news and Social Media and YouTube.
    Not a snow shoe, cross country ski, sled and dogs , or snowmobile to be had by them.

    Feds have copiers and aircraft and snowmobiles probably.

    • “Other than Gerry Adams, what other names come to mind that are associated with the IRA to us over here that didn’t live through it? ”

      What would Michael Collins do?

  24. All critique aside…………

    It’s still murder by fed.

    That is lesson no. 1.

    Lesson. Number. One.

    What is the penalty for first degree premeditated murder, streaming live on the internet?

  25. I hear an awful lot from you “professionals” …… I said I ‘hear a lot from you “professionals” …. but as J.C., Max, Mosby have all said, you “professionals” are still going to need a sea of support to swim around in. Except for JC, Max, Mosby, Peter, and MvdB, I don’t see an awful lot happening. I hear even less from the political arm ….. there is one, right???

  26. I hope that they quit and live.

    The rest of you fuckers ain’t worth dying for.

  27. I agree with the message 100 percent, The people of New Hampshire said Bernie Sanders 60-39, and Hillary fucking Clinton shrilly laughed and took the majority of delegates anyway. I am a staunch anticommunitst, and despise Dirty Sanders on principal alone, but for fucks sake, we cannot guarantee the legitimacy of the vote, and these fuckers declare a mandate for fundamental transformation with mere 51-49 percentages! These people in Malheur feel as desperate as we do as a whole, the difference is they are locked into their situation and we are not, yet. I agree with the message, but the tactics used are damn near as dangerous as McVeigh’s, who destroyed our narrative, murdered innocents, and gave the left a fucking wet dream of ammo. We are all angry but this has to be done smarter.

  28. Apparently Clive Bundy has been arrested in Portland, on charges relating to the original siege in Nevada. Portland was a place he never would have been if it wasn’t for his idiot son going to Burns where no one wanted him, including the Hammonds. Jesus, what an idiot Ammon was, to put his dad in danger. Clive would have been safer back in Nevada.
    Lesson of this fiasco, MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. Don’t go where you aren’t wanted and have no base of support, like they had in Nevada. If people don’t want your help, DON’T GIVE IT. Stick to your tribe. All that was gained in Nevada is now lost. The 3%ers are actually less than .3% in numbers. Ammon wildly over estimated his support and wildly under estimated the govt. Again, stick to your tribe. Don’t throw more good men away.
    Rest in peace Lavoy. And I pray for Clive.
    Rainman…..

  29. Update- Cliven Bundy has been arrested.
    https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/…059742?fref=nf

    Article announcing the Surrender:
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2…e-cliven-bundy

    This may change what happens in the next few hours…

  30. Reblogged this on PUMABydesign001's Blog and commented:
    Ugly business going down in Oregon.

  31. And be assured patriots if you step up and stand for freedumb but do it in a tactically incorrect manner, or an area where the populace has been cuckolded or bought, none will have your six.

    Just so everyone is clear on all this, LaVoy Finicum got what he deserved right? Shoulda raised his arms higher? Shoulda wore better identifying marks? Shoulda consulted you milisha people first? Divide and conquer, split split split. All you spitting negatives should definitely read the Green Book. Or STFU. Keyboard Kwarterbacks need not apply.

    In the end it won’t be enough though, the economy is so broken that now even the SSRI, Pot, Booze, fluoridated inmates have begun to take notice.

  32. For the sake of discussion, and in light of the podcast issues, what if the occupiers had occupied the refuge but specified that there be no arms at the start? So, in your gedanken, remove firearms and force multipliers from the equation.
    Would we still have the same outcome(s) in terms of public opinion locally/nationally?
    Could the real issue of land title then be advanced further than it has?
    What would have happened if the occupiers then called for support from the liberty movement upon LEs/Feds taking aggressive action?
    Would we still have the same outcome(s) in terms of public opinion at the local/national level?
    Would the occupiers gain any support from the liberty movement given that they would be “defenseless” against aggression?
    Some interesting QED’s came out of that in some local FTF discussions last night.

    • Excellent questions, that deserve serious thought and answers.

    • They didnt have to exclude them they should have just kept them behind the door.
      That however would have answered your question sooner. What would have occurred if they had been unarmed?

      The FBI would have been in there weeks ago and arrested them.

    • “For the sake of discussion, and in light of the podcast issues, what if the occupiers had occupied the refuge but specified that there be no arms at the start?”

      At the very least the prison sentences would be lower and one less person would probably be dead

    • Yes, but then they’d be seen as peaceful activists, rather than wild-eyed radical revolutionaries. And they’d all be alive.
      They still had no local support, no one there wanted them, and this was an asinine venue and a stupid bridge to die on for a topic they couldn’t even articulate with 3 weeks to try.

      I’d love to hear anyone advance the land title argument, and see if they can’t think of a better venue than Frozen Nowhere, OR to advance it.
      Somewhere closer to a major media locus and with hard-to-interdict internet access would seem to be a much better idea, just for starters, if you’re trying to send a message.
      If you’re asking would people face off against the feds when they arrested those protesting, hell no. The whole point of non-violent protests is that you agree to take your lumps, including literally, when the Imperial Stormtroopers descend on you like they will. If they go too far, and there’s brutality, or worse, you document it, put it out there first and accurately, and then give them unrelenting hell in court and from public opinion. I expect that legal defense funds and the like then would enjoy a much wider range of support than anything that will come in under the current situation. If anyone isn’t ready for those consequences and realities, they don’t understand the rules of that game going back to at least Gandhi.

      So, if you’re keeping score at home:
      Planning fail.
      Strategy fail.
      Tactics fail.
      Mission fail.
      Command fail.
      Personnel fail.
      Intelligence fail:
      -Friendly forces estimate fail.
      -Enemy estimate fail.
      -Terrain fail.
      -Weather fail.
      Training fail.
      Operations fail.
      Logistics fail.
      Civic outreach fail.
      Liaison fail.
      Communications fail.
      And on and on ad infinitum.
      (Seriously, Ranger School and C&GS should plug this operation into a Five Paragraph Order, as a great exercise in How Not To Do This, Ever. Or just look up “Five Paragraph Order” on the ‘netz, and do the analysis yourself. It was botched the day Ammon Bundy got out of bed 5 weeks ago.)

      So when your plans (I’m being charitable here) call heavily on the intervention of the Underpants Gnome every minute of every day, maybe rethink doing it at all. And if that’s the plans of those you’re looking at joining, keep looking, and walk away.

  33. And each and every ” constitution” waving presidential candidate is doing what ? Exactly.

    Mr. Barry I served along side some SF guys in the 80’s. You ain’t in their universe. Go back to working the phones for Bernie.

  34. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on MCS.