The Horrific Cashless Society

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Coming to an economy near you, if the PTB have their way.

Got small gold?

54 responses to “The Horrific Cashless Society

  1. Screw the silver n gold, I’ve taken a $50k loss on that crap already. Brass, lead, and steel is where the smart $ is going.

    • Please explain…..you haven’t taken a loss unless you sold it already ! buy it at any price and sit on it and you have your wealth…….who cares what dollar value is given to it RIGHT NOW, only when you spend it…

      • Correct. And I have no intention of selling. PMs are bought once an individual has secured EVERY other preparation for their future security. If you don’t have a water well, wood stove for heating/cooking, firearms and ammo, land, a supply of shoes, boots, gloves, and clothing, you really shouldn’t be purchasing PMs. IMO, ammo is the better investment anyways. The supply of affordable ammunition has already been curtailed and probably will be cut-off. The common man will find it difficult to afford any type of bulk amounts now. 5.56 is averaging 40 to 50 cents a round, 7.62×39 a bit less. A box or two of 20 rounds may get you out of a bad situation, then what? You really should have thousands- remember, the gubbermint has billions… My belief is that both PM and ammo will be outlawed in the future. You can’t put down wild game or a zombie with a gold coin. If you’re going to be a made a criminal, you should be a well-armed criminal. 🙂

        • Jimmy the Saint

          “The supply of affordable ammunition has already been curtailed and probably will be cut-off.”

          Yet affordable heroin, cocaine, and meth come in an almost unlimited flood. As soon as there is enough of a market, someone will service it. And prices will drop as they get better at importing and distributing.

        • Lost Patrol

          Roger that tfA-t. Masloff hierarchy of needs. Security, Shelter, water, food.

    • Steel not so much. China sits on a 1.2Bn ton steel plant capacity and it is currently running at 50% of capacity. Leading indicator that this won’t change? Right now it is cheaper to rent a high capacity bulk carrier than a Lamborghini for a month according to the Baltic Dry Index.

      Wish you luck.

    • So I take it you bought it when it was all the rage;) I got lucky and had an ol timer who knew back in 2002 what was coming and gave me some great advice and I’m still up;)

    • I’ve bought silver at $5, I’ve bought silver at $35, and I sleep just fine.

  2. No worries here. Pax Americana is maintained by bundles of $100, and abandoning cash would spell the end of it. Gold could conceivably replace it, but there is not enough physical gold, certainly not in US, to go around. And those on receiving end would not fall for gold certificates.

    • There’s plenty of gold to use as money or basis for backed-currency. The problem for North Americans is that most of our gold is underground and distributed in rock. Chinese are going to ask for gold (“Good Delivery” bars), as are OPEC members to secure trade.

      There’s plenty of gold, when it’s priced correctly. You won’t get to be promised three 1 ounce coins for your month of efforts at the job in the future, but your rent won’t be 1.5 ounces, either. Maybe, you get .23 ozT of electronic gold credits ($10000/oz gold, like a Sovereign coin) for your same job, but it’s still enough for rent and payments, since you are lucky enough to have a paid job. No one has gold-denominated obligations for their house or car (although, the gold clause is legal and enforceable), and few are holding the metal personally. Most are not getting rich or going broke with $10K gold. Miners are going to do better. Imports are going to be very expensive or unavailable when priced in hours of wages. Food and Diesel will be available in the uSA, with controls.

  3. Haven’t Libertarians done enough damage with their “free market” masturbation? This “cashless society” is just another consequence of Libertarianism. The only people stupid enough to not see it are Libertarians.

    • Kindly explain how legal tender laws are a libertarian invention, and how same makes a free market?

  4. “Got small gold?”

    Got small change?

    SHTF there will be no exchange rate.

    So, who determines weight and measure? Otherwise, “small gold” is nothing but barter junk.

    S//

    • Presumably, weight/measure is handled by the vehicle itself, once authenticity is determined [tools like this will help there: https://www.thefisch.com/ordernow ]. An authentic 1/20 oz. coin made of .9999 would be tradable, unless I am missing something.

      Assuming a global catastrophe, the current exchange rates will not be present, both due to the absence of markets and the lack of a trusted fiat or other currency into which to convert the metals. But I can see a price for a fertile cow, for example, being set locally in terms of gold, silver, 5.56 or 7.62×39 ammo, or slave(s).

      • Lost Patrol

        Gold for large purchases and 90% silver coinage (pre-65) for normal day to day. The measure may change or be simply what one is willing to give or to receive. But as long as there is some form of market it will be “so much times face”. More and more small business folks are already doing that, including my favorite gas station and firearms store. As I once stated before, this is the time to insure you have marketable skills and the tools to perform the work. My thoughts is that it will not go cashless overnight. And folks who have cash will still accept federal reserve notes (FRN) over digits on a computer. Every month I pull out any funds in excess of what I require for the next 6 weeks from the bank. I stash it in $10, $20 and $50 in my safe. I have enough for about 4 months of bills. The rest goes into silver maple leafs and 90% US silver coin (pre-65) in the form of Franklin or Walking Liberty halves and Mercury dimes. A slightly higher premium but even a person who is not into silver can tell it is silver. And YES, of course I already have my seed bank of non-GMO, non-hybrid seeds, garden and tools. Ammo plus the lead and the brass and everything used to turn it into ammo. An item most folks ignore is the electric grid. How do they plan on storing food, how are they planning on getting fuel out of the underground tanks? How are they going to cook? How are they going to stay warm. If electricity goes away, (previously a electrical engineer working for a power company) and the odds say it will, you are now in 1880 out on the plains… What are folks gonna do? Hmmm Might want to re-watch the series Jericho. It will give you an idea or how it will go down. Got shelter? Got food? Got water? Got safety? Got tribe? Because you can’t do it alone..

      • When the flight out of electronic FRNs gets underway in earnest, I predict that the current legal tender base metal slugs will play a significant role in trade. It won’t take much hyperinflation at all to put the metal value of even the copper-washed pennies well above the face value. I like the way Ron Paul put it: “We can’t even maintain the zinc standard.”

        “This ‘cashless society’ is just another consequence of Libertarianism.”
        And if it wasn’t for those Gosh-darned Libertarians, we wouldn’t have to worry about the Heartbreak of Psoriasis, either!
        Time for a reboot, robot.

        • Grenadier1

          Dont pay attention to the good Sgt, he would be perfectly happy if currency was backed by Absolution’s and Indulgences.

        • The lowly nickel is the only American coin with base metal value (25% nickel//75%copper). I have a thousand dollar’s worth in my garage. You can go to the bank and ask for a hundred dollar federal reserve box. I suggest each $100 purchase be made at a different branch.

          • The 1982 and earlier penny (95% copper) is the only coin with metal value above the face value, at present, according to http://www.coinflation.com/ (this surprised me – it used to be the nickle, but nickel prices have really gotten hammered since the last time I checked that site, while copper has held up better). Otherwise, though, you are entirely correct. Also, you’ll probably have to request the $100 box and pick it up later, most branches don’t keep them in stock. And you might want a cover story ready (although I haven’t needed it) such as: “It’s for a joke – I owe a friend some money, he’s always complaining that he doesn’t have two nickles to rub together . . .”

            Grenadier1: Heh. Well played.

      • JustAroundTheBend

        Hey boss,

        Posted a reply to GS below and wondered if it was edited due to content.

        It is possible you have not reviewed it.

        Also I have changed my screen name from whackamole..to..JustAroundTheBend.

        Tks
        JATB

      • Cassandra (of Troy)

        CA/16Mar16@09:47,

        “Presumably,……would be tradable,”

        Which is why I previously suggested that particular coinage as it’s in an already recognizable, pre-denominated form that’ll (imo) do much to re-start/stabilize the economy of a post-collapse society as well as giving a substantial boost to the credibility of the group issuing it per Psych 101,: “They (e.g., FreeFor) must be pretty good/the ones to go w/ since they’re the ONLY ones who have REAL money w/ the value already on it & that’s a LOT better than trying to figure out/haggle over what it’s worth like everyone else’s doing”.

        “But I can see……or slave(s).”

        You omitted the ubiquitous .22 rimfire family which, for a while, will be the equivalent of ‘small change’ & if people begin to mfr cans/boobytraps/etc for it its value will increase YUUUUGELY.

      • Remember the egg girl and the pilgrim?

        Dead matter does not define itself.

        S//

  5. Reblogged this on Burning Arrows and commented:
    You have to understand economics, and economic policy at the level of the Fed. If you don’t understand Keynesian economics, your definitely not sitting at the table with the other big kids.

    • True. But then the likes of the Fed is playing the aggregates. When the SHTF arrives it is going to be the microeconomics that hold sway. So in a sense I don’t care that I am not at the big table.

  6. Silver’s “good as gold” & easier for daily commerce…

  7. Pieces of bait never looked so good

  8. Expect to pay a little extra for 1/10th oz coins per ounce than hefty 1oz coins. My local dealer asks $15 over spot, not a percentage, for non-perfect non-new fractionals. That $150 might get you 7 or more silver eagles, or 8+ 1ounce silver “rounds”.
    Foreign circulated common fractional gold coins may sell for lower premiums. 20 Franc, Ducet, Sovereign, Peso, Maple, etc.

    Gold: advantage of dense value if traveling on-foot. Fractional gold coin: advantage of showing less money for a deal. Making 90% change from a big 50 Peso coin (currently ~$1600) might be trouble, while no change of a 1/20th or 1/25th gold coin for groceries / gas is not-a-problem.

    Silver is ~80x the weight of same-value gold. Excellent speculation, but not what I want to carry. Platinum coins (US or Canadian 1 oz sovereign impressed money) are very-dense value and fine speculation, but will never be familiar to non-specialists.

  9. There may be some time between “can’t get cash at the bank” and no limits on getting a cashier’s check made out to a coin dealer for most of the balance in your account. This means that the hour is very late. Get a home/cell number for the dealer for future transactions, when withdrawals from your accounts (not cash! Plastic “spending” card) need bank or fedgov auth number for >$200/week. Welcome to the free market, or Systeme D.

  10. Small gold is good, but for hand-to-hand money to be used in daily, small to medium transactions, silver and copper are even better. (Ammunition in the most popular calibers makes a good ad hoc medium of exchange, too.)

    The War on Cash is just one more consequence of our other non-war Wars, most especially the War on Drugs. Few persons could imagine how large the camel was when they saw it slip its nose into the tent. They’ll realize their error soon enough.

    • If your trading ammo with any other than those that you know and trust your playing Russian Roulette…

      • I’ve long thought that very thing, Brother.

        I’ll be very careful with whom I trade anything lethal……

        Armed over watch for any trade with strangers will be mandatory as well.

        • Amen Brother…It will help if you have a Community built up already so you have a system in place to deal with the necessity of barter and trade…Having a renewable source of trade goods will be an asset as well…

  11. “We Are Headed Toward a Cashless Society?”

    This isn’t a question -we are already most of the way there.

    Do you have direct deposit?
    Can you pay your taxes in cash?
    What percentage of your bills and other household needs do you actually pay in cash?
    Have your local small business owners and sole proprietors already started swiping customer’s cards on their smartphones?

    • The company I work for uses citibank for payroll disbursements. They offer direct deposit, cash card, or by check. They don’t like issuing checks and ultimately will provide a cash card whether you want it or not. Nice.

  12. There will always be some form of commerce, whether barter with booze, cigarettes or cartridges; or “System D” and of course trading intrinsic-value coinage for whatever “new paper” might be promulgated by government after a no-cash system fails. After all, even Nazi work and death camps had some sort of internal commerce. It’s what people do.

    My opinion of the eventual failure of a no-cash system is that I believe that it’s the last gasp dying effort of a failed economic system.

  13. Seems that this (along with the idea of Team Fed having a clear view into personal spending habits via electronic FUSION monitoring) is another way to pick the bones clean. The whole purpose (at one time) of banks was to keep personal ‘money’ safe in order to not get robbed. Now that Team Fed (under whatever pretext) has the ability to take your ‘money’, that safety component is gone. Another ‘cherished’ notion down the shitter along with such mundane things like the Constitution/B or R and old notions like that ….
    It would be nice if there was some push back – anyone? anywhere? any time?

  14. We had a responsibility to stop it before it got this far. Cashless means depriving the People of any and all ability to resist. It’s not different from putting 99% of the population on welfare. Will they bite the hand that feeds? Opposing Team FedGov means your children starve.

    Kind of hard to fight for something that’s already lost.

    As I said before… Tangibles. Don’t reply with “God will save us” because he already has.

    • Lost Patrol

      “Opposing Team Fed Gov means your children starve.”
      Only if you have not prepared. Get out of the cities. Get out of the urban areas. Get away from the lines of drift (read interstates and major roads). Build tribe with friends and family. Insure your food. Have several gardens between yourself and other members of your tribe. Insure a water supply. Insure your shelter. Insure the tools of your trade. Like the Ninja that survived for 34 generations, staying in to themselves in the back country. Just poor peasant farmers and priest. Nothing of value here.

      • Hiding (“bugging out”) will work for a few. For awhile. You have to be lucky everyday. Lose once and you’re gone. One set of loose lips and you’re gone. One relatively minor medical issue and you’re gone.

        What I was talking about was honest opposition, not hiding. Gets real hard to win hearts/minds when the only meal ticket in town comes from FedGov.

        • Lost Patrol

          Understand your comments. You are talking raiding and pillaging much as the Kurd’s did against Saddam? That fits my Scot and Norse heritage as well. Even the Ninja would come out of their mountain retreats to settle scores. But learning to live 1880 to 1910 life style may not be an option at least not for those who want to survive. And being lucky to be a 3rd gen Northern Rocky Mountain soul, one can hide in plain site in the small rural communities that support ranching. When I asked my grandparents what the depression was like, they told me nothing really changed for them here in the Northern Rockies as they had always lived the tough life. And so in my humble opinion I believe I will see those days return. Good luck to you and yours. LP

  15. Uncle Larry

    The best argument I heard for gold and silver came from an old man with a heavy eastern European accent referring to his WW2 experience. He said, “even border guards understand gold”. He is alive today because he had a few coins.

  16. Was reading Steinbeck a couple of weeks ago. Not sure whether it was Cannery Row or Tortilla Flat but it pointed out the best way one can get back at bankers. Seems you rent a safety deposit box, put a whole salmon in it and don’t come back for 6 months.

  17. Atlas Shrug

    Good timing, as I was just about to start research on purchasing of such. Any good/bad experiences with silver and gold dealers? I’m assuming out of state mail order is best to avoid local sales tax eating away at the value via the initial purchase?

    Info Bleg, please.

    Atlas Shrug

    • You shouldn’t be paying sales tax on bullion and coin sales…F2F gives you the peace of mind that you are getting the genuine thing…I’ve always had good luck with golddealer.com and would not be worried about doing mail order with them…Talk to Sal and he will help you with what suits you best…Good Luck…

  18. Cassandra (of Troy)

    Re: A cashless society

    A blast from the past.:

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Will+a+cashless+society+breed+a+gunless+society%3f-a03578522

    And the answer to G&A’s question? DUH!

  19. “In our view, there is a clear “war on cash” being promoted in the media. Do you have any thoughts on the issue and are we headed toward a cashless society?

    TD: Yes, there is a war on cash being promoted by the Fed, in particular, and the government, in general (and its lapdog supporters in the media).”

    That is the sum total of actual evidence – as in, facts, specifics, particular legislative or executive actions – regarding restrictions on use of cash presented in the linked article: none whatsoever. It’s not that cases that could be used in such an argument don’t exist – I can think of half a dozen without trying, and I’m arguing the negative – it’s that this linked piece isn’t rational argument at all, is not intended for rational people, and as for the people it does influence – as the old saying goes, one can not be reasoned out of a position that one was not reasoned into.

    CA, let me know when you stop being silly. I don’t know when you started, but it’s past time to come back out of the rabbit hole and start responding in a sane way to the actual threats, not self-evident hysterical propaganda. Until then, I’m out.

    • Sad That…You won’t come and gather knowledge because of your offence to an article CA post…You need to grow up and put on your big girl panties…Such a shame that you think the world revolves around you and that everyone should cater to your needs… You are starting to sound like a good little socialists…

  20. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on MCS.

  21. It is quite possible that Article I, Section 10 will suddenly be re-discovered for all tax payments in a “cashless” society.

    “No State shall… make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts”
    The implications should be considered…

  22. A Non E Mouse

    I was asked by a dear friend if I thought precious metals were a good idea to have in case of an economic collapse. I said no. If I have a can of beans to eat ant you ffer me gold or silver for it, what good does the metal do for me? Everyone has to eat, everyone has to have water. A community currency based on these commodities will be more prevelant than they are now. End of FedBux? Good. That means the end of market manipulation. Look into how farms sell cropshares. Learn to be a producer, and you and yours will be fine. More communities will encourage gardens over lawns, and golf courses will make great farmland.