Suggested Ammo & Food Baselines


Discuss and improve, please:


IMHO, 3 210-round combat loads for everyone on your team times two for new recruits, plus 500 rounds/person (including future new recruits) for training.

That’s rifle. Pistol = 4 mags each plus 250rds/head for training.

Understand that these are just my SWAGs that I recommend as SOP for our team. More is always better.


George Patton has those numbers:

>Ammo Shopping Resources

63 responses to “Suggested Ammo & Food Baselines

  1. Per day ?

  2. Mike Bishop

    Pete, that’s exceptionally conservative.

    I look at a light training day for pistol as 200…and I mean really light; warmup, working the shot-from-draw-stroke, ball-and-dummy, support-side, one-handed, etc.

    Induce stress (physical and mental) and those A-zone credit-card shots turn into “please, God, let me hit the C-zone” most Ricky Tick.

    I’m just an asshole from the internet, but 1k, in reserve, should be the ABSOLUTE minimum. That’s in addition to a complete basic load.

    In a grid-down event, the supply chain starts and ends with you; if you didn’t have it yesterday, you won’t have it tomorrow.

    This is also why caliber-standardization should be mandatory. Wildcat dumbfuckery is for collectors, not defensive-based shooters. Introduce supply-disruption, and/or collapse, and that .82 Dicknose you just, “had to have” is now a Mk 1, Mod 1 Muzzle-Thump Device.

    “Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics.”
    – Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC

    You’ve got 35 days before the firearms owners in this country go full-retard, and the supply disruptions begin.

    • Agree really conservative.

      More always better +100 rest your post

      • Of course having enough ammo probably means you REALLY can’t have ever enough.
        But here is a question about another question maybe we should all consider: How do you find methods to reduce the need for having enough ammo? It’s like putting solar panels on your roof and going off grid, works great, but a large part of it is how you think. And that off grid system works much better if you find ways to conserve energy.
        So maybe the correct answer, or how to think about ammo requirements, is what can you do to create a force multiplier?

        My first thought, and it’s just my personal perspective mind you, is to get more people around you involved, so maybe you don’t end up with more ammo, but you end up with, hopefully, a larger force, trained to some standard, like say, just for instance, Max’s basic small unit infantry tactics for civilians, so your ammo resources are utilized in the best possible manner.
        See where I’m trying to go with this? It is kind of a holistic approach instead of a sledge hammer all eggs in one basket let God sort it all out later kind of thing. Change in thinking here.

        I can’t speak for anyone else, I simply don’t have the financial resources to stockpile all the ammo I think is enough for like the next ten or 20 years of SHTF, because if shit hits the fan, gonna be a lot of years, maybe longer, than any of us can probably have ammo for.
        So thinking that way, you got to have an alternative plan for not enough ammo.
        Of course, battle field resupply could be a resource, but you got to win battles and engagements to get battle field pickups, to begin with, andd your going to burn through ammo winning engagements. Can you even expect a net gain in ammo? And weapons, gear, material, food, etc.

        It just seems more apparent to me as thing progress, we are going to have to become allies, work together, combine forces, and develop holistic remedies for the potential problems, like not enough ammo, or food for people out front defending or whatnot. We are all in this together after all.
        Just thinking and saying.

        • Yup.

          The piece was an attempt to shift thinking from “per case” to “per head” POV.

          • That per head POV is worth many cases of ammo. A cascade preference in that POV is worth an armory of ammo.
            I just can’t help but believe that POV in my AO would in the larger scheme would in the long run be ammo conservative, if for no other reason and there are many than the security and defense capabilities of my community tribe and family.
            Aside from a violent and repressive regime, the greatest threat is most likely from marauders and criminal elements violently attempting to basically rape and pillage unorganized and vulnerable communities and rural areas. And the best solution to that is the unlimited application of defensive, and offensive violent collective operations by the people in those areas against such actors. I can invasion the futility of trying to defend mine 24/7, and the non value added expense of wasting limited resources in such an isolated manner. I’d almost have to burn through huge quantities of ammo just to begin to try to make up for a lack of combined firepower of organized resistance. just from taking small unit infantry tactics courses, it is nothing to burn through 300 – 500 rounds in a single protracted firefight. What do you do when you realize “I’m Out!” and your battle buddy, just a couple of you need re-supply, jump up and say hold your fire everyone! Be right back, got to hit my cache next ridge over for another combat load of ammo!???

            • Colorado Pete


              One way to conserve ammo is hitting your target, not missing it. And not panic-dumping a 30-rounder in the general direction of the enemy to “keep their heads down” (while you’re swapping mags, their head comes up, and they resume shooting at you, so you just spent a mag’s worth for nothing.

              Lots of civilian people like to adopt military tactics like heavy suppressing fire but fail to realize one crucial point: they are not the military. They don’t have an endless logistical supply, nor platoon maneuver elements, nor supporting artillery, nor close air support, nor a company-size quick reaction force, nor tracked armor, nor serious stand-off weapons.

              Military tactics are based on all these things. If it’s just you and two or three buddies, you’d better make each round count, and scoot and communicate. If it’s just you by yourself, 30-rd mags, low recoil, and panic/adrenaline finger twitch may not be a good mix for you. One round between the eyes has excellent suppression effect, which neither wears off nor depletes your supply.

              Learn to shoot extremely well, fast, under great stress, from behind various shapes of cover. Easy? No. Doable? Yes. Buy and burn your ammo in practice now, while you can still get it, so you can conserve it when it counts. 15 casualties per 30-rounder is better math than 2 30-rounders per casualty.

              1500 rifle, 500 handgun rounds minimum to keep for “real”, plus 200-250 handgun rounds per training session minimum once or twice per month at least, 60-100 .30/.308 rounds per session, 150-200 .223 per session, and LOTS OF DRY FIRE.

              If the “for real” numbers seem low, well, maybe…but if you hit more than you miss, that’s lots of killed/wounded enemy, and realistically, surviving that many fights is a long shot…no pun intended. And yeah I have much more than that.

              • You might have missed the entire point of what I was trying to convey.
                It was about being well trained to effectively deal with and effectively compensate the extingency’s of limited resources, ammo and other materials, through better training, preparation and co-operation.
                Nonetheless, I got a sneaking suspicion when the bullets are flying, and the adrenaline is flowing and the blood lust is in full swing, at least till the vast majority of us become seasoned to combat, or live long enough to be, there isn’t going to be much to be done about thirty round mag dumps in the general direction of the enemy, especially if you are outnumbered and overwhelmed by enemy fire directed at you. Even the best trained fighters take some time to overcome self preservation when they have a belt fed weapon or an RPG zeroed in on your position.

        • 35 days …
          Start thinking ‘static’ force multipliers. Pits, punji sticks, tangle-foot. Think area-effect measures … fougass, FAE, burn pits. Use your imagination. Read fiction from Rawles, Alexander, Mosby, Ross, Fortschen. As Partyzanski calls it, “enterTRAINment.” create funnels, kill zones….. the material is out there. Find it, absorb it, use it.
          Then think unconventional weapons …. bows, arrows, crossbows, slingshots, molotovs, caltrops, binary agents, balistas, water cannon, and most of all, interdiction of operating supplies/resupplies heading for authoritarian forces.
          The chair is against the wall. John has a long mustache. Where is Waldo. Supercalifragilisticexpeealidocious times ten.

          • What your talking about is possible, but it is a lot of work, takes a lot of people co-operating and combined resources both material and of the mind. All the more cause for us to discover how to work tether and become communities and tribes who co-operate and have mutually beneficial goals, like defense and improving our lot. Which takes time also. Something that also is a resource that is getting more precious every day.
            Something not discussed a lll that much, but will come to bite us all in the arse if we don’t find it in ourselves to do so.

            • no one ever said Life would be easy. I’m reminded of a line from Tolkien, “So do all who live through such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.” (Gandalf) FotR

    • Mike Their are no warm ups, no do overs,,when it’s time to get jiggy. I realize you already know this. Good on you for training. Im not trying past 4 months, saving,,stocking, loading.

  3. Good advise as to storage. I do have a warning on the 61-90 day interval venture out. First it makes good sense as portrayed. But if the area you are located has been placed under martial law one is immediately a pick up by the roaming authorities for the possession of fire arms. One is screwed either way so pick your poison and live with it.

  4. Dehydrated and freeze dried food? W-a-t-e-r. Lots of it. And either an on hand supply of nice clean potable, or the necessaries to sterilize what you get.

    And those adult caloric requirements listed in part 2b of the article?
    Reference that to this article:

    Then consider that, along with “You don’t have enough ammo.”, you better figure you don’t really have enough food.

    • Miles,

      I agree with your synopsis that freeze-dried = water needs. But, I think the storage of and flavor of freeze-dried food makes water planning mandatory. Those #10 cans of Pork & Beans you got “atta good price” at the local Sav-A-Lot are only going to go so far before one is ready to hang-up, if relegated to another meal of Campbell’s Pork & Beans.

      Bottom line….nothing is perfect. Creativity, in many ways, will be the rule of the day.

  5. Probably more TP so as to accustom oneself to the Yellow Pages as an alternative.

  6. You can’t possibly have enough of anything. You’ll either use it yourself or will need items for trade. If you are still spending $ on bullshit like entertainment and eating out, you really are fucking stupid and I hope you die. I won’t be helping anyone who didn’t even try, except maybe putting them out of their misery.

    With that said, you also don’t want to have your supplies in the open like what is shown in the pic. Also, you will want to have multiple cache sites so as not to have all your eggs in one basket. Get some food grade plastic barrels and place them underground in several different areas loaded with extras.

    This shit storm is going to happen one way or the other.


  7. Your group needs dedicated ammo reloading people to keep the supply adequate when usage begins.

  8. For food, these are good folks:
    You can buy one-year packages from them.

    I notice these days, even stores like Winco are branching into this area:

    Don’t forget food-grade diatomaceous earth for a food storage option. Get the 50-lb bags for best economy:
    Again there appear to now be many suppliers, but the above link was one of the first and is run by a friend of mine.

    On the gun side, I was thinking what I would hand to neighbors if they were “late to the party” and wanted to help with neighborhood defense. Any semi-auto .22LR rifles in your collection are worth looking at for this role. Make sure you have adequate supplies in ammo, magazines, and scope or red dots for these guns – kinda pointless to hand one to a neighbor with a single magazine! If the gun is tube-fed, look at the Spee-d-loader, sold at Cabelas, Midway and other such outlets:
    They can even be used for revolvers. Take a look at youtubes about it.

    • I know about 10 years ago some rural, rocky mountain Walmarts had #10 cans of dehydrated/freeze dried food at decent prices. What I tried tasted good. A whole back aisle near water/soda. Don’t know about now though.

    • I got a 404 when clicking your buddy’s diatomaceous earth page link.

    • Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, and may well be misunderstanding the nuances of the comments about storing Mtn House/trail foods/ MREs, etc, but one thing I’d suggest to anyone thinking they’re going to live eating that stuff is to do yourself a favor and try eating it for a week. You’ll be more than surprised how hungry you will get for something with fat/grease.

      Along with those #10 cans of dehydrated food, include lots of lard, butter- anything with real fat, ‘cuz you’re going to crave and need it.

  9. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on ETC., ETC., & ETC..

  10. I’m well stocked, at least 360 rolls of toilet paper in the garage. I know wierd.
    Ive got guns stashed, I haven’t seen in years, along with ammo, water filters, food and building materials.

    Couple odds and ends to consider cases of nails. Plastic pipe and ceramic pipe. A lot of uses. Very very very effective uses in close quarters.

    Barbed wire the nasty shit, and t poles, for creating barriers, nuff said.


  11. Great info; consider these also:

    *Med: Antibiotics ( for humans), Colloidal Silver, Ringers Lactate (CLS Bag)
    *Shoot: Reloading Tools (at least a hand loader) & Components; 7K grains in each pound of powder, so smartly-pick your loads/charges (example: 23.0g for .223, or 45.5g for .308…). 3K bullets, 3K primers, & 3LBs powder for each load (start or continue processing & pre-priming brass).
    *Communicate: Tucson PL600 multi-band Receiver, KTOR Hand Crank Gen.
    * Move: Update footwear, outerwear (IR Reflective poncho).

    Best-case scenario; they will undoubtedly use/expand the power of ITAR to restrict sales of Body Armor, NVGs, Gas Masks, Tear Gas, Comms, etc. Have that stuff before the “axe” falls.

    • Colloidal silver is a mineral.
      Despite promoters’ claims, silver has no known function in the body and is not an essential mineral supplement.
      While colloidal silver can kill certain germs by binding to and destroying proteins-it can also destroy proteins in healthy tissues.
      Colloidial silver can damage the liver and kidneys-organs that are kinda important to have in good working order.
      There is a plethora of products available that are far safer and much,much more effective than colloidal silver.
      Ask a Dr. about colloidial silver-you know the guys who spent 8 years in college,and a couple more in training-(residency)-and still had to pass an extremely difficult test to become a licensed physician.If colloidial silver really did all the shit people claim it does-it would be available via a Dr’s prescription,or sold OTC.
      “Scientific evidence doesn’t support the use of colloidal silver dietary supplements for any disease or condition.
      Silver has no known function or benefits in the body when taken by mouth.
      Silver is not a nutritionally essential mineral or a useful dietary supplement.
      People may be exposed to silver, usually in tiny amounts, through air, water, and food, and in certain activities such as jewelry-making or soldering.
      Colloidal silver products are sometimes sold as homeopathic remedies. For more information on homeopathy, see
      Topical silver (used on the skin) has some appropriate medical uses, such as in bandages and dressings to treat burns, skin wounds, or skin infections. It’s also in medicines to prevent conjunctivitis (an eye condition) in newborns. However, there are no legally marketed prescription or over-the-counter drugs containing colloidal silver that are taken by mouth.
      Colloidal silver can cause serious side effects. The most common is argyria, a bluish-gray discoloration of the skin, which is usually permanent.
      Colloidal silver can also cause poor absorption of some drugs, such as certain antibiotics and thyroxine (used to treat thyroid deficiency).”

      The Mayo Clinic on colloidial silver…
      “It’s not clear how much colloidal silver may be harmful, but it can build up in your body’s tissues over months or years. Most commonly, this results in argyria (ahr–JIR–e–uh), a blue-gray discoloration of your skin, eyes, internal organs, nails and gums. While argyria doesn’t pose a serious health problem, it can be a cosmetic concern because it doesn’t go away when you stop taking silver products.

      Rarely, excessive doses of colloidal silver can cause possibly irreversible serious health problems, including kidney damage and neurological problems such as seizures. Colloidal silver products may also interact with medications, including penicillamine (Cuprimine, Depen), quinolone antibiotics, tetracycline and thyroxine (Levothroid, Levoxyl, Synthroid) medications”

      Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center on Collioidial silver…

      “Colloidal silver cannot cure cancer, AIDS, or diabetes. Taking too much colloidal silver by mouth can cause skin discoloration, seizures, and kidney damage.
      Colloidal silver is a suspension of tiny silver particles in a liquid. Silver compounds are used externally to stop or prevent infections but recently, many people have started taking colloidal silver as an alternative medicine. It is being promoted as a cure for cancer, diabetes, and AIDS although there is no proof it works in humans. Our body does not need silver to function normally. Silver actually denatures proteins and can make many enzymes lose their effects.
      Long-term oral use of silver can make the skin turn bluish-gray or gray-black in color. It can also cause seizures and kidney damage. Pregnant women should not consume colloidal silver as it has harmful effects on the fetus.”

      Collidial silver is nothing more than modern day snake oil.
      There are no credible,published,peer reviewed studies that support even a single claim made by the colloidial silver promoters-with the exception of some types of skin infections-and even that is questionable,as there are many more effective treatments,even in grid down scenarios.

      • That said, those of us who avoid the Fusa medical system like the plague occasionally use C-silver to deal with sore throats, sinus probs etc. I’ve used it sparingly (like a drop or two) to bring me back from some nasty shit a couple times. And no it’s not a panacea but it is used medically for burn patients and when I scratched the shit out of my eye with a stick in the dark woods a few years ago it was in the creme they used to help treat it. BTW if you wanna fuck someone up stick something sharp in their eye fast n hard. Everything stops, trust me.

        • Yeah- I got a small piece of steel in my eye that somehow bypassed safety glasses once-hurt like hell.
          My opinion on colloidial silver is I aint using it.
          The stuff used on burns etc. is silver nitrate-not exactly colloidial silver.

        • Fishing treble hooks, lots of them (like maybe a half ton) hung in trees and bushes to ‘restrict’ unauthorized entry. Hung up about human shoulder-high to avoid animals. Area denial …

  12. I think you’re quite a bit low on ammo guesstimate-I would double the 500 rounds each for training ammo per person,and a little more than double your 3 combat loads of 210 rounds each per person to 1500 total “combat” rounds per person,plus the 1,000 rounds for training.
    Handgun ammo sounds about right-if you’re down to defending you and yours with just a handgun-you’ve got serious problems-maybe extra training ammo for those not proficient with handguns.

    Patton’s 90 day food supply is spot on,only thing I would add is that you can not eat MRE’s or Mountain House for more than a few days-both are meant to be eaten short term.
    Just Google “MRE babies” and you’ll see the problem.
    Nothing wrong with using MRE’s/Mountain House a couple times a week-just not for more than 2-3 days in a row max.
    The first 90 days are just about getting enough calories into your body-after that,you have to pay attention to nutrition.

    Your body needs fruits and veggies-fresh is best-the fresher the better as far as nutritional content.
    “According to the University of Minnesota, once canned veggies go through the necessary heating process to be packaged, about one-third to one-half of vitamins A, C, thiamin and riboflavin are lost. And about 5 to 20 percent of vitamins are removed after each year, depending on just how you’re storing the vegetables.”

    Results are similar for fruits,fresh is best,canned and frozen are next best,dried/freeze dried are last as far as nutritional value.

    As an example-look at the nutrients in a single fresh peach…

    One medium peach (with skin) contains 1.36 grams of protein, 58 calories and 2.2 grams dietary fiber.

    Potassium – 285 mg
    Phosphorus – 30 mg
    Magnesium – 14 mg
    Calcium – 9 mg
    Iron – 0.38 mg
    Selenium 0.1 mcg
    Manganese – 0.091 mg
    Copper – 0.102 mg
    Zinc – 0.26 mg
    Also contains small amounts of other minerals.

    Vitamin A – 489 IU
    Vitamin B1 (thiamine) – 0.036 mg
    Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) – 0.047 mg
    Niacin – 1.209 mg
    Folate – 6 mcg
    Pantothenic Acid – 0.229 mg
    Vitamin B6 – 0.037 mg
    Vitamin C – 9.9 mg
    Vitamin E – 1.09 mg
    Vitamin K – 3.9 mcg
    Contains some other vitamins in small amounts

    Similar amount of nutrients in fresh veggies.

    A couple of other things to consider about food storage-
    First of all,store foods you eat now,you don’t want to go through a major change in diet,stock stuff you and yours like to eat,and rotate through your food stores,newest in back,oldest in front,or newest to the left,oldest to the right,whatever works for you.
    I use a Sharpie marker and date every can-I also write what’s in the can in case of labels falling off or becoming unreadable.
    Be sure you stock spices/herbs/seasonings,and condiments like ketchup,hot sauce,mustard mayo,and be sure you have plenty of cooking oils,lard,crisco,margarine,butter etc.
    We stock foods to make balanced meals as far as nutrients-there’s a lot more to it than just fats/carbs/proteins,or grains/cereals/beans/ rice/meats/seafoods/poultry/fruits veggies.
    It would be way too long of a comment to post here-anyone who wants more info just shoot me an e-mail-(
    As I said-we stock foods that we eat now,and keep plenty of fruits and veggies in the mix,along with lots of pastas,dried beans and rice,as all three have an indefinite shelf life when properly stored.
    If you don’t have caning equipment,and know how to can-get a water bath and a pressure canner now-and learn to safely can foods using both methods.
    If you don’t have a smoker-make one or buy one-that’s something you should learn how to do.
    Learn how to salt cure meats and fish,and salt cure smoke hams and other large cuts of meat.
    If you don’t grow a garden-start growing some food-even if you live in an apartment in the city-or a house on a small lot in the burbs.
    Container gardening for apartment dwellers,raised beds for small lots.
    We can grow enough veggies to feed four of us through the winter,and into the early summer when we start picking fresh veggies again.
    I till up a 15×30′ garden,and a 25×50′ garden and it’s a lot of work to take care of but the payoff is more than worth the effort.
    You need a back-up plan for the time when there is no grocery store available.

    • Ammo is baseline.

      More always better.

      Thanks for info.

    • If you are not a soldier, you probably aren’t going to use a lot of ammo in the daily walk. IRA fighters never used a lot of ammo, local unsupported fighters have to be thrifty. But, ammo wears out from patrolling, when not fired. Rattling around in pack/vehicle, enduring temperature cycling, loading/unloading, are hard on cartridges and will eventually reduce their reliability. So, keep track of this and fire them during training, noting failures of “okay-looking, clean” cartridges. Replace expended from storage. This means you need stored ammo, & service supplies for the weapon.

      The 210 rounds number is a man-carried on-patrol number that assumes a patrol of men, each with (at least) this much ammo. With the rest of the junk Uncle puts on Infantry, this is about what “can be” carried. This may be too much, or not enough for your situation, especially since no helicopter with a slung pallet of ammo is behind your radio. The helicopter is not supremely reliable/available even now, and will be less-so as funds (parts/service) are less-available, making formerly-supported soldiers more like men out for a walk with some gear (and that’s it).

      You can eat MRE’s-only for way-too-long, BUT you must drink a quart of water before and after each. Without water, your digestion is not-good. MRE’s can be made quite tasty if the user is willing to do some work/spend some time on treating them as “unprepared food”, like dry beans are. Add garden produce, chicken eggs, canned veg, fresh bread, spices, and the Meals Rejected by Everyone are an expensive high-quality supplement to general eating. Don’t forget that the trash generated by packaged food tells people you have recently had food, and likely have more.

      +1 on calories. Sock some discounted multi-vitamins away to compensate for the diet. No need to get deficiency diseases while getting skinny.

      90 days worth of anything isn’t much. That’s not many days, either. It’s probably enough time to get the FEMA regional dictatorships set up to round up previously-identified thought criminals and hoarders. No one is going to be “independent” of the big supply system with such a tiny amount of stuff, but it’s about 30x more food than is waiting for you at the grocery store on any given Sunday.

      Pregnant women and children under about 10 are in need of a special plan for nutrition to achieve good outcomes. More work, but you have to.

      The Bison Prepper seems to have optimized surviving in remote poverty, with a recent concession to a townie GF.
      Summary: Not too many of The Golden Horde are getting to Elko NV. Contrary to the “Inter-Mountain West, well-funded, semi-automatic, with water” strategy that has received so much attention, a pre-collapsed lifestyle will be “sustainable” and you will be used to it. Hope you like wheat, from buckets. 65% of info is in delayed/controlled comments.

  13. Good stuff, don’t forget seeds, “heirloom” we purchase the ” seed vaults” off of amazon yearly. The door to my big freezer is completely filled with those seed vaults.

    Each vault does like one square acre. The down side is some of the seeds don’t do well at the altitude I live at, wrong climate zone. ” standing stock”

    The down side to,freeze dried is, low calorie intake, need a lot more fats.

    I purchased cases of #10 cans of restaurant grade gravies, and heavy on fat stuff. Truthfully I have no idea if it’s still good, I need to open a can to check content.

    Regardless the dogs or chickens will eat it, nothing goes to waste.

    Coffee, 100 plus pounds, stored. Mans got to have morning vices. Between the coffee gravy and toilet Paper, imGTG.

    also recently purchased 3 big rolls of tyvex, water proofing for construction. Not cheap, but effective.

  14. I always figured 1K per rifle and 500 per pistol were barest minimums, and 2-20X that for your primary weapons, along with a healthy amount of multipurpose staples like .22LR and 12 ga. It’s not a bad thing to have a number of extra long and hand guns in other calibers, assuming your other preps are also equally well addressed, but your primary rifle and pistol should be stocked rather deeper.

    30-90 days food/water is also a bare minimum for even minimal upheavals. Having done the Rodney King riots and the Northridge quake firsthand, anything less than 30 days – like the .gov “72 hours” kits/stores – is BS fantasy, and not real world practical. The same is true, I’m sure, for tornadoes, hurricanes, and floods, let alone more major problems.

    Anyone who couldn’t make it for 30 days in their primary or alternate residence, with the power main and water main supply switched off, and without leaving their property limits for any reason (including medical emergency) isn’t ready to play yet. From personal experience, remember to include the requisite condiments/spices/add-ons, which make a yuuuuge difference vis-a-vis how well your stored food will work. Don’t forget food and water in, requires sewage and garbage out, as part of the plan.

    Once you reach that point, work on 6 mos. to a year’s worth.
    After that, you’re going for a self-sufficiency system, not a cached supply, so things like wells and rainwater, crops and livestock, solar and firewood, etc. all kick in.

    And smaller caches convenient but separate become wise at that point as well, including something around midway between residence A and shelter B, if such applies. What you could put aside in a storage unit 5×5 closet along that route would be a godsend, come the day. If you’ve got the land, a cluster of burial tubes, same-same.

  15. Sorry, forgot to mention AIM surplus has 308 on sale. We just picked up a couple k.

    like 360.00 for 600 rounds. 145 grain. Shoots well thru my FAL’s, 91s and 14s. Also the beretta 59 and 62 sticks.

    Mags, we have 100s, still in the magpul packaging, stored in air tight boxes. M4. We have been purchasing the ak mags by ten a month, they fit well. And function as advertised.

    Lots of people pupu, Wolfe ammo, we have a,different opinion, first any ammo that functions is good ammo. That said, the newer Wolfe, brass cased ammo seems to work really well. Admittedly im Shooting it out of AKs, and they shoot anything.

    The Wolfe can be sourced cheaply and is worthy of setting on the shelf as a just in case, ammo.

    I did have an issue awhile back with some of the coated rounds in a 5.45x 39, AK 74. This round is an interesting round. I like it, my wife LOVES it, she no longer shoots her m4s, as they kick, she thinks the 74 doesn’t kick.

    I did the right thing and bought her a back up 74. That’s what good husbands do!!!!!!,!,!


  16. Don’t forget drink mixes, I cannot tell if they are in there or not. I have Gatorade, tang and lemonade. even water gets old if that’s all you drink.

    • I forgot to mention drink mixes myself.
      We keep a bunch of Crystal Light flavored ice teas on hand,they’re super light-I take 4 packets in my hunting pack for early season hunts,and the hunting license weighs more than the ice tea packets.
      We also store Tang-(I love that shit)-Gatorade,Country Time lemonade,etc.
      I also keep a few boxes of the individual serving size of drink mixes-one packet flavors one 16.9 oz bottle of water.

  17. NightWatcher

    A couple of comments:

    When all is said and done, stored food is “primarily” a source of biologic energy, mainly in the form of carbohydrates. These have mass, and hence, should weigh something. Those #10 cans of dehydrated/freeze dried foodstuffs that are as light as a feather don’t contain much except air. It is a crude estimate (but far closer to reality than the “number of servings” listed), that you need about 2 pounds (or 1 Kg) per day of dried food. I encourage you to do the math yourself, it will be a real eye opener. 100 days equals 100# of rice and 100# of beans as a first approximation.

    Ammunition reloading is a favorite topic. If you know the powder charge weight (roughly 25gr for 5.56 and 35gr for 7.62) divide the number by 7 and the result is how many pounds it take for 1K rounds. Roughly 3.5# for 5.56 and 5# for 7.62. So an 8# jug will provide a little more than 2K 5.56 or 1.5K 7.62.

    For centerfire rifle rounds, one is dependent on primers (single use if you value your digits), powder (unless you have nitric acid and a whole lot of courage/stupidity) and jacketed projectiles. Cast projectiles don’t work real well at >2000fps, and basically leave a Pb highway down your barrel.

    In “spicy” times, the limiting factors will be time and energy. As such, my preference is to have my “components” already assembled. Nonetheless, I think having the resources to put together 10K rifle rounds of your choice would be advisable. That is after you get 10K assembled units stored.

    Thus 10K primers, 10K jacketed projectiles and 5-7 8# jugs of powder. For pistol, have a stash of wheel weights, melting pot and molds, in addition to a couple pounds of powder and 10K primers.

    • Nightwatcher,

      A year ago I found Wolf Small Rifle Magnum and Wolf Small Pistol Magnum primers for $89/5,000. Plus $28 HazMat shipping. Bought 10k of each. Wish I had bought more as both that price and Wolf primers are gone. Never to be seen again.

      Oh well….woulda, coulda, shoulda.

  18. Minimum 10K per caliber that you use for primary weapons.
    Water: Reliable supply on your property not dependent on the grid. (3/4 HP 120V well pump that can transfer to a solar panel is the best)
    Food: 1 YR supply per group member.
    Meds: Basic first aid in abundance, and lots of cleaning supplies. Anyone on life supporting meds is probably toast.
    Heat: Woodstove with 2 winters worth of fuel.
    Keep your head down and good luck.

  19. Bill Harzia

    Condiment packs for a little variety, for cheap:

  20. Ned, your numbers are still low for your battle rifles, triple it, your in the ball park.

    Big berkeys are your friend. One is none two is one. Not cheap but vital

    four/five cords, I’m concerned about not having enough for a cold winter. Mid 70s wood stove in play. Think I’ll order up another cord of juniper.

  21. ALCON,

    Here’s the problem storing all the canned goods, as I see it, at least for me. That is consuming the stuff in a rotational manner. If you store a substantial amount of canned vittles you need to consume them in a reasonable amount of time.

    When one is hungry that 6 ounce can of Chicken of the Sea tuna will certainly be yummy. But, the thought of it for Sunday morning brunch along with Chef BoyArdee Spaghetti O’s for Monday’s noon meal….consumed regularly to allow rotational consumption, is not very inviting.

    Thoughts ?


    • I encountered the same thought process when I first started to plan. Tried to eat Chef BoyArdee both cold and heated. Ugh, tasted like plastic crap.

      Decided to go in this direction instead: Canned meals of real food. Stews, soups, sauces. You can add in the cheap carbs as you want.

      • Hinson and Dan III

        Get a pressure canner,and learn to use it.The pressure canner can also be used as a water bath canner,so if funds are low,buy the pressure caner rather than buying both types. The pressure caner is the way to go because many things can not be safely caned using a water bath canner.
        Some organisms that make people very sick can survive being processed in a water bath canner-the bad thing is the are tasteless and odorless-the good thing is a pressure caner kills the nasty critters.
        With a pressure canner- your favorite soups,stews and sauces can be made in large batches,processed and stored in pint or quart canning jars.
        You can also can meats,chicken,turkey,fish/seafoods with a pressure canner.
        It’s nice to just pop the lids on a few Ball canning jars on a bitter cold winter’s day and put together a pot of venison stew or a batch of venison chili using veggies from your garden,tomato sauce from your garden tomatoes,and the meat from the deer you whacked in bow season.

        Also things like tuna,tuna salad,cooked white meat chicken,chicken salad,salmon,etc. are available in foil pouches-makes storing them much easier,they take up less space and don’t weigh as much as cans,most of the weight is the food rather than a steel can and a bunch of liquid.

        Agree that Spaghetti O’s,Chef Boyardee ravioli,etc are nasty.
        We stock #10 cans of spaghetti sauce-(the stuff made for restaurants)- and a variety of dried pastas instead,with a few cases of ravioli made for restaurant use.
        Check your local foodservice companies-most will sell products to individuals,many of them in NE Ohio have stores open to the public.
        It’s worth buying a can of this and that just to see if the product is good-generally anything made for restaurants/foodservice tastes way better than the shit in #10 cans from wally world.

        • GG2,

          I shouldn’t admit this….but I have both canning devices. Water bath and pressure. No excuse. Well, maybe one….laziness.

          Thanks for the wake-up call on the canning.

  22. What!?! No hot sauce?

    • I mentioned hot sauce in my post made @ 12:48…

      “Be sure you stock spices/herbs/seasonings,and condiments like ketchup,hot sauce,mustard mayo,and be sure you have plenty of cooking oils,lard,crisco,margarine,butter etc.”

      Gotta have my Yucatan Sunshine and Frank’s Red Hot !

  23. CopperHeadRoad

    This site has a good 30 day and 1 year food supply guideline:

  24. FrozenPatriot

    I suppose ammo requirements depend on things like population density and proximity to population centers and multiculturalism. Is the county population times some multiplier a good start? Perhaps 2 or 3? I’d want far more in Cook county, IL than two hours from anywhere anyone has heard of in north central MT.

    Being far from the origin of the CW2 cube will help too…

    Same for food. Residents of flyover country will likely find millions of bushels of grain in hundred-foot-tall waterproof tin cans next to newly quieted railroad tracks. Folks on the coasts or especially unfriendly climates like Nevada or Arizona; not so fortunate…


    One thing to consider is the sources of supply after things get sporty. Since you do not want to pile into the mini-van and haul ass to Costco or Wal Mart, you have to look elsewhere.
    First, most local drug stores such as Walgreens and Rite-Aid also sell food and even wine and beer. Yes, it’s more expensive, but consider that the balloon has just gone up and all of the tatted-up white trash are killing one another in the Wal-Mart parking lots over the last can of Campbell’s soup.
    Second, know where your all-night markets/stores/gas stations are. 2:00 A.M. your time may be broad daylight in the Ukraine or Aleppo and someone could have just popped a tactical nuke. If you are a night owl, where will you get the last needful thing(s) before the Sheeple wake up at 0600, turn on FAUX News and then go bats**t crazy.
    Third, have a plan. If you have to go out to pick up that last prescription or whatever, know your routes and alternates. Know what neighborhoods would not be good shortcuts.
    Last, think the unthinkable and then plan for it. You may end up having to shoot a cop or a NG soldier just to get his/her gun, ammo, commo device, etc. This will be dog-eat-dog. Ask yourself: what groups are still on top in Socialist Workers’ Paradises such as Argentina, Greece, and Venezuela? You all know the answer. Bleib ubrig.

  26. Marlo Stanfield

    Future new recruits should be encouraged to go now to the local big box store and at minimum start buying some 5.56 and 9mm while the shopping is good. And maybe don’t keep all of it at home. Also the future new recruits should be encouraged to go to ranges that rent guns and learn the GLOCK and the AR15. Take a class on them.  From: Western Rifle Shooters Association To: Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 10:06 AM Subject: [New post] Suggested Ammo & Food Baselines   #yiv1135187938 a:hover {color:red;}#yiv1135187938 a {text-decoration:none;color:#0088cc;}#yiv1135187938 a.yiv1135187938primaryactionlink:link, #yiv1135187938 a.yiv1135187938primaryactionlink:visited {background-color:#2585B2;color:#fff;}#yiv1135187938 a.yiv1135187938primaryactionlink:hover, #yiv1135187938 a.yiv1135187938primaryactionlink:active {background-color:#11729E;color:#fff;}#yiv1135187938 | Concerned American posted: “Discuss and improve, please:Ammo?IMHO, 3 210-round combat loads for everyone on your team times two for new recruits, plus 500 rounds/person (including future new recruits) for training.That’s rifle. Pistol = 4 mags each plus 250rds/head f” | |