MDT: Thoughts On The Compact Fighting Rifle

compact-rifle-post41

Use the time graced to you for improvements to your security plans.

Tempus fugit.

48 responses to “MDT: Thoughts On The Compact Fighting Rifle

  1. William Munny

    Tosnail 26 Inch Heavy Duty Ukulele Cases Ukulele Padded Bag – Great for Tenor Ukulele

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E8MWD9G/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_c_api_v2Zkyb93EDQ9J

    Perfect fit for an AK underfolder. Or so I’ve heard.

    /cough

  2. “A Survivalist needs to understand farming/gardening, animal husbandry, woodsmanship, mechanical repair (vehicle, farming implement, and firearm), and the technical/tactical skills of first aid (TCCC), extended wound care, coupled with the defensive tactics implementation of firearms, blades, and empty hands.”
    -I’ve worked damn hard over an extended period to knock out most of the above. Exceptions being extended wound care and empty hands defensive tactics. I hope to hell I’m never in an ’empty hands’ situation. However…..something I should put on the list to get updated.

    -This is not a drill. The shit we’re facing is about as real as it gets.

    • A survivalist also knows that you don’t live in a state surrounded by people that don’t prepare and want to take your shit…Better get on getting out of MD…You not only need to be thinking tactically but also strategically when looking at where you want to end up…My offer still stands…

  3. The Usual Suspect

    Just get a Steyr Aug if small is important to you.

    • Love the AUG, however, get a Tavor and you don’t have to look around for a NATO-spec version (AUG) to take your AR mags.

      Just sayin.

      • Architect,

        The TAVOR does not do well when fired from one’s support side. Hot brass flies down one’s front or in your face. My other peeve is there is no easy way to lock the bolt back to clear the weapon. You almost need three hands. This is a major design flaw IMO.

        The good thing is it is nice and short in a compact package. It takes regular old STANAG magazines. Nothing proprietory.

        FWIW.

    • Make sure you get the Nato conversion for it so it can accept ARmags also…

  4. SemperFi, 0321

    What’s wrong with carrying just a rifle, instead of sticking 5-8 lbs of extra crap on it? An XM177E2/folding AK-47 was a perfect compact weapon for close in fighting, and now we try to reinvent the same concept, again?
    It’s time to get over the gear queer mentality and become riflemen again.

    • Right on point!
      If one can’t shoot a bare bones mil spec A-2 to hit man sized targets at 300 meters, all the extra trash to hump around won’t help.

      • Bowman,

        Bare bo es M16A2 ? As in no optic ? This ain’t 1967 anymore. If one is not running a magnified optic you are making a serious mistake.

    • So what you’re saying is that a light, and optic have no place on a defensive rifle. Better yet, if you have the huge combat multiplier advantage of possessing night vision goggles, having the ability to be able to aim your rifle in complete darkness using a small IR laser is “gear queer”(I guess you’ve never used one, huh?)? Just because you don’t, doesn’t mean everyone else shouldn’t. Taking advantage of technology is smart, being able to get by without it WHEN NEEDED is smarter.

      • Excellent point and my wife and I are actively looking for rural property outside of MD. I hate this state and it’s uber lib politics!
        I’m sorry: What offer were you referring to?

      • MD Tactical: Not at all, Sir. I have night vision (Gen 2+), proper frequency IR illuminator to match, optics and lights. ALL of my rifles are upgraded. I also have a bone stock 20″, iron sighted only A3 that I shoot almost as often as my ‘gear queer’ stuff to keep myself capable of shooting accurately out to 300 meters and not become overly reliant on technology. What I observe almost all the time at the range is very poor rifleman basics. As a leading instructor I hope you wouldn’t disagree with me that the basics need to be first and permanent.

        Yes, by all means take FULL advantage of technology to bolster and build upon well developed rifleman skills. That’s my position.

      • SemperFi, 0321

        I offered an opinion. History will show that armies burdened down with too much equipment (Americans) can’t cover ground like the locals do. I’m VN era, we learned in Recon to travel light, just as little as possible. We now travel in armored vehicles, covered in a ton of body armor, and call in air strikes whenever needed. That shit isn’t going to work for us civvies.
        I still backpack at 62, last summer I did 65 miles thru YellowstoneNP and was reminded every moment to shed more gear, I’m down to 45-50 lb pack and can’t get any lighter for a week trip. Same goes for combat gear, it has to be as light as possible or your own gear will kill you. When exhaustion sets in, you’re done! No chopper or convoy to carry your ass home.
        I have many of the same exact weapons you pictured, and I got to where I stripped most all that shit off. Every time I get out of my Jeep, there’s something hung up on something else, they increased the weight to where I don’t want to carry them (I used to hump an M-60 in the jungle so don’t lecture me about weight) and above all, I’m not 20 yrs old anymore.
        All one has to do is look at your photos to understand, yes, you are a gear queer. You’re very proud of all your cool weapons, so are the rest of us. But I really believe we’ve got to knock this shit off, literally, it’s costing us too much in weight and maneuverability. If all I had left was my m1903 Springfield or my .60 flintlock I’d roll out the door and I guarantee I wouldn’t have flashlights, handgrips and lasers hanging off it. We are obsessed with new and improved gimmicks, some work, some maybe, and some are just gun kitsch. Kinda like the handlebar streamers we had as a kid, we thought we looked cool.
        Use what you want (yes, some of it is necessary), hang all that stuff on there if it works for you, fine. But when I think compact, I also think light. (Not flashlight. That rides in a side pouch until dark) I used to watch guys hang shit all over their packs, and struggle in the jungle to get thru wait a minute vines, me, I’ve always had my shit strapped tight and close. And that’s the same principle I use today with my hunting gear. Weapons need to be streamlined too, or you snag everything within 3 ft. and it will cost you your life.
        But that’s just my opinion.

        • ” History will show that armies burdened down with too much equipment (Americans) can’t cover ground like the locals do.”
          Great, good to know it’s turned into another Damned “this is how our army should do it” militia meme. This isn’t about operating as a militiaman, it’s about living as a Survivalist day in and day out after SHTF. They are not the same.
          “I’m VN era, we learned in Recon to travel light, just as little as possible.” The “light you were taught in recon and the “light” I was taught in recon must have been two different “lights”.

          ” Same goes for combat gear, it has to be as light as possible or your own gear will kill you. When exhaustion sets in, you’re done! No chopper or convoy to carry your ass home.” To go along with that thought, no one will resupply you and your “super light” ass either.
          ” Every time I get out of my Jeep, there’s something hung up on something else” Maybe you’re doing it wrong…..just sayin.
          “they increased the weight to where I don’t want to carry them (I used to hump an M-60 in the jungle so don’t lecture me about weight)” OK, then perform self discipline.
          ” and above all, I’m not 20 yrs old anymore.” Who is?
          “All one has to do is look at your photos to understand, yes, you are a gear queer.” I guess your definition of “gear queer” must be different from mine. I’ve used the same kit for 8 years now and it was based on what I needed. Of course it’s also not your “loin cloth, HCM sandals and cloth bandoleer “light” meme, so I get why you say gear queer.
          “You’re very proud of all your cool weapons” Proud? They are tools. Who says they’re mine? Pictures speak a thousand words……..
          “But I really believe we’ve got to knock this shit off” By all means Skippy, start a fuckin blog and put out info that will work for those that read it instead of finding fault with ideas that don’t fit in your “idea cubicle”.
          ” We are obsessed with new and improved gimmicks, some work, some maybe, and some are just gun kitsch.” I use what works not just some gimmick. Some of them I’ve used in combat, how ’bout you?
          “Use what you want (yes, some of it is necessary), hang all that stuff on there if it works for you, fine. But when I think compact, I also think light. (Not flashlight. That rides in a side pouch until dark)” What kind of Batman Utility Belt do you think the average Survivalist will be wearing when they’re chopping wood that will have an extra pouch for the weapons light? One last thing, the reason I use rail systems is specifically so any accessories I mount on a weapon are quickly removeable, as opposed to semi permanently mounted. It’s all about options. I’ve just given some.

      • ^This.

        It’s the year 2016.

        If you weapon isn’t equipped with an optic and light, you’re doing it wrong. Period.

  5. I’ve been working on how to fit one of these types into a Get-Home-Kit for a long while.

    My consideration centers around packaging (concealing in the car) and weight, as my slog home from the urban enclave where I work is 50 klicks.

    Kel-Tec has the SU-16 in versions that fit the bill, but finding these is about like performing dentistry on a chicken. The folder AK is less promising in several ways, but I suppose I’m going to have to look into it, or relieve a couple of foam panels under the loading floor of the wagon to fit a much longer AR.

    Anyone have experience with any of the various AR pistols, suitably festooned with the “brace,” and a shortie barrel?

  6. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on ETC., ETC., & ETC..

  7. My AR will go wherever, and whenever I go. But some one please, give your opinion of the Kel-Tec PLR-16. It shoots the 5.56mm, uses AR-15 mags, has an 8.5 inch barrel, and is loud as four motherfuckers when fired.

  8. “Use the time graced to you…”

    What an excellent choice of words 🙂

  9. Doesn’t everybody go thru the poggy bait thing, I sure did. JD, all are good ideas, and nicely done rifles.

    been changing my AKs out to the magpul stocks and fore grips, and mags. In terms of quality kit, outstanding value.

    My goals are different, I’m lightening my AKs up, and I’m not interested in optics for the AKs. By replacing the above mentioned, I’ve taken POUNDS of the AKs. Got a few more to,do, as money and time are available.

    XM-177e makes me smile, rumor has it their’s a few around here somewhere. Never ever had a misfire, and this model has a three selector safety system.

    The really early xm-177es, at least the ones I’ve seen all,came with the three group selected option. And a full auto BCG. 12 inch barrels with that big old huge silver soldered flash on the end. These could be picked up for 200.00 bucks in the early 80s.

    The Aug is barely capable of an 1 moa, at 100, rumor has it that magpul is working on Aug mags, for the near future. Got mine in 1988 on department letter head for 1800.00. A huge sum. Awesome guns.

    So com m-14 got one, never shot it, all my friends have. I went with the Beretta BM59 and 62 Italian, version of the m14. Tough to source mags, but I’ve got plenty.

    FNFAL, again when I started collecting 200/300.00 although the I enjoy a couple I shortened by bobbing the barrels, it’s tough to beat an fn,,they just feel,good,,again barely an 1 moa rifle at 100y. Keep in mind these are bigger battle rifles, they do exactly what their supposed todo, and do it well.

    I actually tried to build a sniper version of the FN, heavy barrel, for finite shooting the trigger was problematic. I stoned and stoned and stoned the trigger, to the point of three round burst. Got rid of that trigger group and started over. Got it,close to right, still heavy, and the money invested for the results were not up to par. That rifles around here so where.

    Nuff of that. I’ve learned over the years that this stuff is a balance, any ex Ranger or Force Recon guy will tell you that ounces translate to pounds. It’s easy to carry to much shit, it’s an art to find that balance. Generally the problem is you can’t identify that balance until your done with the mission.

    Rifle painting, not into pretty, into functional. I spent years using 4 different rattle cans of camo colored paint. On two occasions I caught my partners rifles, due to their ” to perfect paint jobs” .

    I own a few high end long guns, that look like shit, from spray painting the rifle and optics to match a specific terrain we were working in. Using topo maps ” colored” one can see exactly the color differences in an area ones headed into.

    Make appropriate color selection and get jiggy. No straight lines. Also consider spray painting your clothing for a better fit. SOG, used this back in nam, most of the operators did to a degree.

    At the end of the day, we all want to do the right thing, for the right reasons, to scope or, red dot is a personal choice. Frankly if it works for JD, then good on him, use it. what we think of his kit means zero at the end of the day.

    Dirk

  10. My suggestions as someone who is a fan of bullpups:

    Aug/MSAR copy: very easy to shoot, optic/carrying handle built in is fairly compact, the barrel removes in 5 seconds => easily fits in a medium sized colorful backpack. Very low profile packaging for effective 5.56 use.

    KelTec RFB: 18″ barrel .308, very good trigger for a bullpup. Ambidextrous and forward brass ejection => this weapon offers a lot of firepower in a compact format. The center of gravity being tucked in to your chest makes the recoil far more mild than DPMS .308

    .300aac pistol: breaks down small enough to easily carry in small knapsack like the Aug. Barnes makes some seriously nasty copper rounds that are effective out to 300 yds from a short barrel

    These are all good weapons to have handy in the car if riots or other civil disruption become a serious threat. I can carry one of the two knapsacks into my office along with a briefcase and no one has a clue. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

  11. I was able to check out a AR pistol with the Law Tactical folding stock kit installed. It made the pistol about six inches shorter than it already was, with a brace installed. Pretty handy, except the pistol can only be fired once with the extension tube folded. Unfolding it is very quick. Brownell’s sells them.

    Worth a look: http://www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_stock_adapter_gen_3_m_p/99312.htm

  12. HHH Old Vet.

    Kevin- I give a thumbs up to the PLR 16, be Sure to tune your mags for it, mag pulls worked well in the last one I had, anti tilt followers for sure, made one fitted with an under folder, it fit in Brief case w/8 30 round mags, real handy, and yep, LOUD sob, you will lose some hearing having one. Hehe.

  13. M60 barrel bag will conceal and protect many of your folding stock firearms indoors and out. Still available at many locations. Even comes with its own sling.