BLUF: “Suck” doesn’t begin to describe it.
Only thing worse?
Staying where you were.
Red Team this, preppers. You get to your bug out location and it’s occupied by about 30 armed squatters. Surprise! Now what? That’s assuming that you were able to get to your distant BOL in the first place. Think ahead.
Once you amscray from your AO, your a refugee. I’m not knocking the last ditch option when your main AO is no longer defensible, but the options sure are limited once a refugee.
I guess having a plan and assets and allies, caches, secondary rally points and longer term hides ahead of time for hightailing it is a no brainer, but damn, it sure gets complicated in a hurry if you have kids and a wife and no assets beyond what your able to hump on your back.
A lot of people will have to stay where they are due to health, financial situation,etc.
Anyone not in top physical condition and experienced at humping a heavy ruck through woods/field simply ain’t gonna make it by bugging out to the mountains/ national or state forest lands etc.
Then there’s the fact that unless you know- and have known the locals for years- they most likely aren’t going to be welcoming strangers into their back yards.
You ain’t going to feed yourself by hunting either so forget that fantasy.
Food will be the biggest problem. You’ll be expending a lot more calories than normal. While some people have a couple months worth of calories stored up in their XXXL gut- those are the guys who will either have heart attacks, or succumb to physical ailments related to being out of shape fat asses.
A huge influx of inexperienced hunters will scatter the big and medium sized game in a few days.
Takes a hell of a lot of squirrels at maybe 100 calories or so of edible meat per squirrel to replace the 3,000 or so calories per day you’ll be burning.
Long term calorie deficit = slow starvation.
Then there’s the myriad nutritional issues- vitamin and mineral deficiencies will effect people within 4-6 weeks at most. Unless you know all the local edible plants and which plants provide which nutrients- and have multivitamin/ mineral supplements with you, you will suffer from vitamin/ mineral deficiencies and become more susceptable to illness and injury.
Watch any of the “survival experts” on any of the assorted ” survival” shows on the tee- vee and pay attention to how much weight they lose. All they are doing is slightly prolonging starvation.
There are a very few very remote areas of fUSA where you could bug out to the woods and survive along with a few small widely scattered rural areas with enough fish and game.
If you had a small group of knowledgeable in shape people- you could bug out to the woods and survive short term in those areas.
Better choice would be property with at least a cabin and a couple outbuildings that has septic and water well with hand pump along with space for garden. Some chickens would be helpful.
It’s hard to feed yourself and your family by growing food as it is- it won’t get easier with no chemical fertilizers, potting soils, and indoor heated areas with grow lights to start your veggie plants.
Better to figure all that out now- and comprehend that the bugging out tobthe woods/ mountains etc. and living off the land is pretty much fantasy.
Amen Brother… That’s why I say over and over if your AO is not conducive to survival and Liberty then get your ass in gear and get out…Looking forward to you coming my way GGII…
Probably warmer there than here- at least for the next 3-4 nights.
You are 100% right- the only way for most of us to get through any long term “disaster” situation is by having a community of like minded folks around
It’s a hard concept to grasp for some it seems…Sad That…
brother, it isn’t a difficult concept to grasp – what they find is, it’s a difficult concept to accept. they know in their minds and in their hearts but still can’t – or, more likely won’t – accept that what is about to be, will in fact, “be”. and that is sad to the point of tragic.
Brother Lineman, see you this week, or next. GG2, see you this summer, brother – at “home”.
“Watch any of the “survival experts” on any of the assorted ” survival” shows on the tee- vee and pay attention to how much weight they lose. All they are doing is slightly prolonging starvation.”
That’s because their goal is temporary survival, not setting up a homestead. In the short run, weight drop is preferable to death. In the long run, one equals the other.
That’s the point-a whole lot of the “survival” info available is for short term.
Without adequate food that contains adequate nutrients-the human body will begin the process of starvation very quickly.
It doesn’t take long to reach the point of no return either-by which I mean that continued survival without medical intervention to make up for calories and nutrients lost is no longer possible.
I get that their goal is temporary survival-problem is far too many people believe they are just going to hike into the woods,and living off the land will be just like an extended hunting/fishing/camping trip.
Plus the guys on the tee-vee shows aren’t trying to stay hidden,aren’t setting up defensive perimeters,aren’t carrying rifles and ammo,and aren’t geeting-(possibly)- shot at and hunted down by “bad guys”.
The guys on the tee-vee shows drop a lot of weight,in a short time-and they’re expending maybe half the calories guys “bugging out” would be expending.
Those “bugging out” would starve quicker-except for a few who have the skills-and who have spent the time in the field,in their AO’s practicing their skills in the real world.
It’s hard to live off the land-harder by yourself.
Learn yourself some snaring, get a few dozen, they are cheap by the dozen, season them up, and start setting them. It is a great way to learn the lay of the land and teach yourself the hard lessons of trapping, how to read spoor and signs of game at the same time. Traps and trapping are an undervalued resource of food and very warm material for making the best cold weather gear you can have. Snares/traps work 24/7 whilst you do other stuff. They don’t give away your presence like firearms can, with a small parts repair kit they are re-usable many times, you learn bushcraft with a vengeance, because snaring requires the best Guerrilla techniques of fieldcraft. If you have game in your AO, when you become reasonably proficient at snaring, your bag can provide an incredible quantity of meat.
Lets say you have 30 snares set, not an unreasonable number, you catch 2 raccoons, a beaver, 4 rabbits, and 2 squirrels. That gets you depending on sizes, 60 to 80lbs of meat and some nice fur to make warm articles of clothing with. You can brain or smoke tan the furs, make thread with the sinew from the tendons on the loin meat, you got bone to make buttons and needles for stitching, and you have bait from guts and tufts of fur for lures for your snare or trap sets.
With large “Emergency” lockers you can snare deer and small bears, medium snares gets you fox, coyote, fisher cat, coons, bobcats, beaver, with 110 connibears you can even trap for fish in a creek, ducks with snares or 110’s. 110’s are the best survival trap going. They fit flat in a cargo or back pocket, awesome squirrel trap too. 6 are worth their weight in gold, a dozen and your going to eat like a king if you are in a game area. And if you go with medium size snares, to trap foxes coyotes and kitty’s, that is a big plus because those predators eat amazing amounts of game you ain’t getting. Trap those suckers and you can increase your meat supply.
Another great trick, and it is a kind of self replenishing food cache is to build a buried box den trap. They are almost undetectable if you observe careful spoor techniques, and produce game nonstop.
Hard to describe, but I’ll try to explain:
Find a shallow bank, or a little knoll, preferably with overhanging tree bows, (all critters always prefer cover/concealment, evergreens, even better), near a water source or game trail, a feature that has the dimensions you can dig a 2ftx2ftx2ft hole, with enough slope that allows you to lay a piece of plastic sewer pipe, steel pipe, flu pipe what have you, or better a hollow log, 6 to 8 inch diameter will do, you can go larger, (you might get medium game like fox and big fat woodchucks, badgers are dangerously aggressive, so are Fisher cats, which are fearless, so be careful), from the hole out leaving just the end of the pipe buried with earth and hummus, this is your entrance for small to medium game to crawl thru. Next you want to line the hole with boards to keep the whole from falling in, any wood will do, you can even line it with short faggots of wood, you cut, or gather from a beaver damn. Your gonna need a manhole cover that sheds water, so boards laid in a slope to shed rainfall works best, but you can use faggots also, laced in a blanket like arrangement with moss for water proofing, a handy piece of heavy mil plastic works well too. Whatever ingenuity you use, you must build your cover camouflaged so it looks like the natural ground, easily removed and replaced, and water repellent, it doesn’t need to be water proof, but if you can all the better. One last bit you need is a plug. And a pole longer than the entrance, by enough to hold it in one hand. Because this is what keeps the critters that will den up in the box from running out when you lift the cover to get your dinner. What you do is have the plug, which is make large enough to keep the game from squeezing past, a long wood crew that is long enough to go through the plug, and screw into the end of your pole made from a small straight hardwood sapling, because one part of the camouflage of the box trap is to take the plug and pole apart so they can be stashed and not be obvious, (leave no spoor right?), but can be retrieved and assembled easily when the trap is checked. So you’ve plugged up the entrance right to the inside of the box, you lift up your cover, and having your handy 22 auto rifle or pistol, ready, rifle is best, you shoot the critters that are laid up in your trap.
It takes a few weeks or more before game will begin using the box to den up in. Once they do, it is a pretty consistent. Check it bi weekly. Remember, most den type critters are nocturnal, so that is your advantage. And don’t be surprised to find more than one species and as many as the box will fit sleeping if you hit a good game supporting area when you lift the cover. You got to be quick about it too. The critters will be confused, but they recover quickly. Skunks will use the box trap, so you got that to consider too. Build 4 to 6 of these and you can eat like a king. The more you build the better, for two reasons, game is a finite resource, you want to not trap an area out, conservation there, its your food supply, and with more traps your sustainable AO increases. Food and firewood are incredibly labor intensive activities, and if you are in a grid down environment, even harder when you must keep hidden, anything you can do to reduce that labor adds to thriving instead of surviving. Trapping is a superlative process in these respects. The box trap are the least invasive and labor intensive method and discreet traps you can have, they produce game for as long as they last. They are a living reserve of good wholesome food, like a handi mart in the woods. In a year with 6 box traps you can have enough furs to make a literal wardrobe for your family. Add in some snared deer skins for buckskin trousers and shirts, (buckskin properly tanned and stretched doesn’t shrink when it gets wet, and makes moccasins, Mukluks, boonie hats, pouches and rucks, the only way to go stealthy in the bush, couple bear skins, coons for hats for the boys, rabbit for the girls, muskrat stoles for the ladies, fox coats and mink lined gloves, your old lady will be happy. Nothing like fur blankets for those sub zero long dark winter nights.
Pretty neat tricks huh?
I grew up doing this stuff, it’s not hard, you just have to try it and make mistakes. By me telling you these tricks I’m more telling you how to get around a part of the learning curve and mistakes more than anything. It’s all common sense and good sound bushcraft. It ain’t easy, but you don’t have to make it harder than you have to either with the right mindset and tools.
I do know how to trap, and how to use snares. Trapping was discussed in comments at MDT.
I grew up trapping too- that’s how I earned the $$ for my first deer rifle.
The point I’m trying to make is that the guys who think they are just gonna hit the woods and kill a deer whenever they’re hungry are in for a very rude awakening.
Most seem to think it will be like an extended hunting/camping trip.
Takes a lot of skills and a lot of gear to harvest enough game to feed yourself or a small group.
Skills that fewer and fewer guys have. You would be using snares, maybe a few traps. Traps take up space in a pack plus they ain’t all that light.
You are off a bit on your estimate for pounds of meat. A large rabbit will get you 2-3 # of meat, a large raccoon 10# – a huge ‘coon could give you 15#.
Been a while since I trapped beaver, some of the biggest ones found in Ohio are maybe 35-40# at most. That would give you. around 17-20# of meat per beaver.
Your hypothetical catch would be much closer to 40# of meat than 60-80#.
Anyhow- like most of what you and I both pointed out- you would need to be set up to live off the land long term, takes a lot of knowledge and skills a lot of gear- even if some of it is homemade- and you have to be in the right area in order to enough game in order to have stable numbers for sustainable harvest for use as food and as material for shoes, gloves, clothing, etc.
It ain’t easy. It makes more sense to be in a place where you have your food and supplies stocked up.
Bugging out to the woods is fantasy for most people.
Well time to buck it up friend. There is no other way, people are going to have to learn. That was my point and reason for giving a working practical example. And not for nothing, you might be a poor trapper and not realize it, or the area you worked had a marginal game population, happens all the time. I’ve seen a number of guys say exactly what you just said over time thinking trapping is not worth it not realizing other factors are involved. The first rule is you never put all your eggs in one basket. A large pack of coyotes could work through and in a week do a major hit on the small game population. And there is a myriad of food sources a woodsman should be utilizing. Also, in SHTF, there’s no game laws, there’s all sorts of alternative choices of methods to acquire game generally unknown by most people, some very productive, the reason they are illegal to begin with. In SHTF you got to think outside the box with everything.
You get hybrid vigor further north or colder longer the winters with critters. Deer, bear, turkey, grouse rabbits beaver, up in NH where I was raised are considerably larger than in WV where I live now. But there substantially are higher population in WV. So in Ohio you will have to set more traps and work harder, use alternatives, a get better being a productive hunter of food. Man has lived pretty well for the past 5000 years or so without having to rely on the benefits of modern food caches.
Which is a win win, we get to cache 1st rate storable food, and be a hunter gatherer of food. Each complimenting the other. Another factor to give consideration is natural game and other wild food is much healthier and sustaining than industrial processed food. If you go out and start to gather herbs and vegetables, roots, you find they are much richer in vitamins and other beneficial nutrients than garden raised, and in particular than hybridized or GMO.
Trapping, hunting, gathering, it is a holistic thing if your going to really live of wildcrafting, it is more a mind set than method that determines if you thrive or just survive. That is the hump most find difficult, get over that you will increase your success.
As I mentioned at JC’s site,keep a good bag in car,you may be on the road things go very wrong,might give you the tools to get home.I also see some things you can’t fight,as in wild fire/nuke meltdown/ect.,thenhaving some options even short term in the woods with some basics might make the difference.
Purchase A Failure Of Civility , read, comprehend.
If you already have it, read it again.
Levels of comprehension degrade over time.
It is not the Bible, but not far behind.
FOC is an excellent resource. Highly recommended.
Yes indeed. AFOC is a really great manual by two guys who put a lot of thought and effort into community organization. I’ve lent my copy out and it has received high praise by all who read it. The binding has worn out and it’s pretty dog eared.
Max Velocity and John Mosby both have written and published very fine works also on defensive doctrine for civilians.
Taken all together, it’s all really good stuff and covers about every contingency. These guys deserve great praise for their efforts to help us all help ourselves.
AFOC is a good resource, but good luck finding a copy. It’s out of print. I guess they may show up on ebay or amazon used.
Bergman’s map in the video is interesting. He says his map is not to scale, etc. It also does not show jurisdictional boundary lines. Perhaps because none exist in this AO.
For us here down below, jurisdictional boundary lines are seams to be exploited. One of my long-time favorite places to run around in has, besides poor to non-existant cell service, the following: a stateline boundary; four county boundaries, with three of those counties having their seats more than an hour’s road travel away; a Forest Service boundary; an Indian reservation; and a non-vehicle-fordable river with few bridges.
It is the land of jurisdictional seams. CA can probably picture that country.
“jurisdictional boundary lines” in Alaska are far and few between. Most rural Alaskans, myself included, aren’t going anywhere should post event become reality. Most, if not all, have been “prepping” long before it became an industry like today. Prepping up here is not just a thing you do “just in case,” prepping is done to survive through the winter. I’m still eating canned and smoked red, silver and king salmon we put up in 2013 (almost gone), 2014, 2015 and 2016. Freezers are full of filleted salmon, blueberries, blanched green beans, zucchini, summer squash and of course, moose. Have two 30′ x 100′ high tunnels where we grow tomatoes, green beans, squash, zucchini, cucumbers, pickles and peppers. Everything else is wild harvest. Freezers are in unheated, covered shaded areas so they don’t run at all in the winter.
Bugging out seems like the very worst idea I can imagine. I imagine a nightmare scenario where I’m in the bush with my wife and kids because I bugged out and many others bugged out…how do I keep from getting shot at by others…how do I know if a group is desperate or criminal…what about a surprise encounter with an unknown group. I would be extremely paranoid so would that make me a danger to other groups? Probably.
Alaska has a total population of a little north of 700.000 people. Most live in the Anchorage/Matsu area (a little over 400,000.) In the interior, the Fairbanks/North Pole area along the Tanana hold another 100,000. So that leaves the rest of the State with a little over 200,000 people; an area the size of 14 Pennsylvania’s inside Alaska. Bugging out is not in the plan, we’re already there.
You live in shit foresaken dump. Trailer parks and shanties abound.
Still eating off my stolen tax dollars from years ago huh?
You must really hate Natives asshole. And it’s quite evident you’ve never been here…far from “dump” status. Alaska Natives are the major recipients of welfare in this State…in the 90%+ category. So your trash talk is directed at them. You have obviously have lost your connection to reality. You are a complete and utter idiot.
Fuck you asslicken
those natives have no excuse for being welfare scum. NONE.
how disgraceful to live off the backs of those who produce. I have Native Americans all around me and they have jobs. Seems the indians have self-respect while the fucking eskimos need a damn ice nap. Oh, and the nex time you talk shit to someone, maybe think ahead, they might not like your st00pit fucking attitude and sling it right back at you. Rest assured, I’m much better at slinging shit than you are. Now get a g’damn job – loser.
“Rest assured, I’m much better at slinging shit than you are.”
Proven beyond a doubt.
For the record, and your instruction, that is not a compliment.
If I wanted any lip from you, I’d pull your mouth away from my sphincter.
As if you needed any help but, if I wanted any shit from you, I’d scrape your teeth… er, tooth.
Soon enough your bile and gall will build up to a lethal dose.
James: you have a good point. JC Dodge may, or may not be the best out there. But at least he knows his limits and prejudice’s and strives to work within them. His “get home bag” is a FAR better idea than the fantasy “bob” most invision. For E&E there are two man killers. Weather and hunger. It really comes down to endurance and resolve. Training is the key, but as someone pointed out. Once you start running you are a refugee, and have just put an expiration date on yourself. E&E is temporary at best. Best to stay with your “preps” unless forced out.
just spent six hours shoveling snow. I can’t move, necks locked up, backs trashed, I’m toast.
It’s all in my head.
doing anything, is better then doing nothing.
WTF ? You’re kidding, right ?
You’re not only a geezer but a retired cop with a nice pension. Go get a freakin’ snowblower. Good Lord man ! I hope you ache so much you can’t move. Maybe that will convince you to get a snowblower.
“Prep smart” ? You need to heed your own advice.
I;m sure he has plenty of stolen loot from all the citizens he and his buddies raped and shook down during his long reign of state sanctioned terror. They spend their lives stealing from the public and then have the nerve to bitch.
These clowns think they got away with their crimes.
tic toc tic toc tic toc
The Bergman Spiderweb operational idea in the video clip on JC’s blog is some really excellent critical thinking.
Unknowingly I’ve done the Spiderweb thing to a certain degree. Seeing Bergman’s concept sure has given me some practical and common sense ideas how to refine my Spiderweb.
Bergman disappeared for awhile, great to see him back up, the guy always had 1st rate realistic hands on stuff to learn from.
What happened to the “reply” button?
@ The Usual Suspect- Excellent book, it is close to the bible! LOL. Its now very expensive if you did not get one when they published it a few years ago. Legit copies are expensive now.
Got my copy in a bookstore for ten bucks.
There’s copies of AFOC around- last one I found was last fall right around start of Ohio archery deer season- so end of Sept/ first part of Oct.
Try the smaller used book stores that aren’t connected to the big online booksellers. Last copy I found was in Akron,Ohio- one before that was Kent , Ohio.
Found a copy in St. Petersburg Fla. a couple years back.
There was supposedly going to be another printing of AFOC too.
Thanks to whomever fixed the “reply” button
GGII I read on a forum not to long ago that the authors started fighting over the money and have since parted ways.
That sucks-last I heard they were considering printing another run.
Like I said-there’s copies around,just gotta keep looking in used bookstores,thrift shops,etc.
Well, if that’s the case, I’m glad I got a couple copies ‘back in the day’…tons of good info, even if they didn’t have a first class editor…the upside is that AFOC is a compilation of many, many FM’s…presented from the SF perspective, which is great, especially when one must face, as others more experienced have said, “You’re not a Ranger; you’re not SF….but then, you don’t have to be….”
Addendum: 4 available @ $55 each on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Failure-of-Civility-/252675123296?hash=item3ad49c6860:g:JXMAAOSwjMJXCA1s
Get them while they last….
“he authors started fighting over the money and have since parted ways.”
and thus demonstrates how the murkins will kill each other for that last can of beans. They all teevee sports cheetos me me me zombies who will fuck their own mother if there’s a $ in it for them…
Your relentless assholery is beyond tedious.
Make sure you check out Bergmans other videos, I watched a bunch of them. Stumbled on him after watching some guy called crazy russian (not to be confused with the (((hackers))). Really like the no BS straightforward info dumps in them. Worth the time of those of us less well trained than the avg wrsa posters. .
Caches, caches, caches. Everybody wants fancy shit, and if you can afford multiples of it, great. I can’t, so I buy multiples of cheap shit, and spread it out EVERYWHERE. I’d rather have 4 or 5 cheap AKs stashed around, that I can get to easily AWAY from my house (plus one for the house, of course), than a single tricked out AR for the same cost AT the house that gets yanked in the first go round, just as an example. I am bewildered by the ones who think “WROL will never happen” “They’ll never be able to take ALL of our guns” “I’ll just fight them when they come to MY house” “I spent $2000 on this rig, it’ll NEVER fail me” and on and on and on. Then I’M the asshat because I suggest simply PREPARING for it. It never ceases to amaze me.
Reblogged this on FOR GOD AND COUNTRY.
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