Z Blog: First Thing We Do, We Kill The Libertarians

Have at it.

62 responses to “Z Blog: First Thing We Do, We Kill The Libertarians

  1. Never a fan of Libertarianism. Not enough reality in it for me.

  2. morals are in short supply these days.

  3. And people wonder why we can’t unite against a common enemy. Maybe we could start with not threatening to kill each other.

  4. Oferchristsake… Thin the damn herd. If you’re stupid enough to finance the purchase of a $2,400 dog, then you deserve to be grifted. #getoffmylawn

    • The thesis is simply that Libertarianism, not unlike Marxism, is a pie-in-the-sky immanentization of the eschaton.

      Western peoples don’t have a law problem, a political problem, or an economics problem.

      They have a cultural/spiritual problem.

      • Some Guy in WA

        Ding ding

        I’ve seen it written that Libertarianism is like Marxism in that all human endeavor is reduced to economics.

        It’s a white male opt-out heat sink

        • Pretty much. Like other, “isms” it doesn’t get to the root of the problem.

          I’d like to live in an era bereft of political “solutions” to a more fundamental problem.

          The, NAP, FWIW, is where the arguments for Libertarianism start to unravel.

          What passes for “culture” in modernity is an entirely factitious, inorganic, edifice of artifice. That’s pretty much the number one problem.

          The other biggun, is that whole Neo-Balkans thing we got going on in FUSA…

      • all 3 of the libertarian icons – v. Mises, Rothbard, and Rosenbaum-alias-Rand – are Jews. This is not an accident. Same old universalist Tikkun Olam in a different disguise.

        • The good news is at least I’ve come to understand you, and as I suspected it’s not wholly irrational. If I sincerely believed that my life in all relevant respects was under the thumb of some people whom I believed to be assholes, I’d be as emotionally wracked as you are about it.

          ‘Course I’d be that way if I honestly believed that my life was under anyone else’s control like that. That’s why I was happy to learn that it isn’t. I learned that as a teenager; not sure what’s taking you so long.

          Maybe try the simple route and just look at the fact of the matter. Your life is yours.

          • Klein does not have a clue as to my ultimate purposes. As an anarcho-libtard, he understands nothing but himself and his “freedumb”. He thinks the universe revolves around his own ego. My comprehension of reality – both boundaries and opportunities – is infinitely larger. Keep studying.

          • Four Teens Ate & Ate

            Fuck off, Jew. Easy for you to say.

            Yes, the greedy Jews own the world’s money, and calling them assholes is an understatement.

  5. The woman did not have a valid Contract … she was unaware that she was Leasing, therefore she did not have the benefit of full disclosure of the conditions of the Contract.

    Unless she just “signed on the dotted line”. In which case, Caveat Emptor.

    The author is trying to craft an argument against Liberty itself, rather than Libertarians. It’s the age-old cry for the State to protect people from the consequences of their own stupidity. That cry has given rise to every “government program”, and is much favoured by the gun-grabbers.

  6. My brother went to a Libertarian meeting in southern CA. Said that the majority of attendees were homosexuals and dope smokers.

    • “homosexuals and dope smokers” … known colloquially as, “people”.

    • Oregon Hobo

      $20 says you could go to a prayer meeting at the neighborhood church in southern California and find the same thing.


  7. 1) When I rented a piece of equipment the person evinced surprise because I actually read the rental agreement before signing. Apparently it is a rare phenomenon.
    2) Anybody who goes in to buy a bulldog and allows the grifters who run the place to talk them into leasing a Goldie for $2400, which then grew to $5700 is too stupid to go outside without adult supervision. They should be sdded to the NICS list of mental incompetents since they are obviously not able to exercise the required degree of judgement to required of a Free Man..
    3) Ned, it was SoCal – what did you expect?

    • Jimmy the Saint

      Yeah, the first time to be suspicious is when they hand you a contract for the dog – unless you’re getting some kind of purebred show/breeding dog, something’s probably hidden in there. If you go to the pound, you give them a few bucks, they give you a dog. Not much room for hiding stuff in there.

  8. Yeah, how bout we kill the fucking commies first.

  9. kay_de_leon

    Reading shit as dumb as this makes me realize that conservatives in the ‘liberty movment’ (is that what zman is a part of?) will putter out over their keyboards, fighting ghost upon ghost and never manage to break the threshold of their own front door. Tilt at them windmills, dog.

    • Exactly.
      Look, this guy is writing some good stuff from time to time on his blog. But he’s voluntarily habitating in some urban shithole on the east coast, he’s admittedly single, no family, no duty or obligations and with no listed common interests of mine except an interest in current fucked up politics and an addiction to oxygen. so I wouldn’t be expecting much more than writing from him.
      Hell, he’s got women tied up in the basement for all I know. Or some dude wearing a ball gag ( I don’t wanna know)

      • >>> habitating in some urban shithole on the east coast, he’s admittedly single, no family, no duty or obligations and with no listed common interests of mine <<<

        Oh for crissakes. He gives you all that he wrote with which to work, and you pick THAT stuff? Not that it's wrong, but the cup already runneth over.

        Besides, you know there's no such thing as an unchosen obligation aka duty. That's why you can't name even a single one that you have and neither can anyone else. Now the unchosen obligations that everyone else has…well, it seems everyone knows what those are.

    • ideological discussions matter. What happens in Pikeville, 29 April ff., matters considerably more. Heimbach, Anglin, Damigo, lotsa bikers, and other hardRight heavy-hitters will be there. So, (((they))) say, will antifa.

      • Oregon Hobo

        See above clip regarding Damigo’s embrace of socialism. Damigo is a white nationalist socialist. The fact that he diverges from his lefty brethren regarding their “blame whitey” campaign and landed a magnificent punch on camera does not make him right-wing, hard-right, or any other type of right. It just makes him a different type of socialist, and one whose ideological forerunners turned out to be enthusiastically willing to turn their guns against their own countrymen… exactly as one would expect from socialists.

        #OREGON HOBO#

        • no, he simply believes Whites should take care of each other. Instead of taking care of hostile ethnics and their (((master))).

        • it’s national socialist not nationalist socialist. People who get weathly off the state have a duty to help the state and in turn the state helps those who are in need, a structed form of large scale tribalism.

      • Pikeville is a bonfire waiting on a match.

    • Lol. Still, it would be nice to at least use realistic ghosts.

  10. POd American

    Folks, it was a think piece….an interesting read. Nothing more.

  11. I disagree with his definition of libertarian. Libertarians are against big govt, period. The romney republicans are for bigger govt and could never be called libertarian. Gary Johnson, the libertarian candidate, supported Obamacare, the very difinition of big govt out of control. Reagan foamed at the mouth against big govt then exploded the size of govt and exploded the debt. What he is talking about is cuckness. Trump foamed at the mouth about the deep state during the campaign the cucked in a matter of days after his astounding inauguration speech. It’s cuckness the Z man is describing, not libertarainism.

  12. SemperFi, 0321

    I’m fascinated by the number of folks who clamor for liberty and freedom, then pigeonhole everyone they can as an excuse to hate them.

    This arrogant exceptionalism so prevalent today may just get knocked down a few pegs when folks can’t find anything to argue about anymore after the mushroom clouds drift away.
    Might just be the best thing for this planet today.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      But don’t liberty and freedom include the right to think and believe as one sees fit – i.e., precisely to pigeonhole and hate if one so chooses? The only thing that would be prohibited would be acting on that hate in such a manner as to injure the body or property of the hated person(s).

      Liberty and freedom =/= kumbaya; it’s almost totally removed from it, in fact.

      • “The only thing that would be prohibited…”

        Serf lingo runs deep. Nothing would be prohibited in the absence of an institution to prohibit it. But the things that you wish to prohibit–assuming you not to be thug–will be stopped. In time but probably quickly, maybe in the blink of an eye. That’s because it’s first about the choice.

        Looters, thugs, jihadists, thieves, rapists, murderers–these tiny minority of folk are first subsidized and then incentivized by governments. You know how it works—find something that scares people, magnify the problem and then make a fortune fixing the problem. The Drug War. The War on Poverty. Peak Oil. Global Warming. World Hunger. Terrorism.

        So at some point as the problems increase, AS THEY MUST, peeps are simply going to have to choose whether they prefer to have it prohibited, or prefer to have it stopped. Those who choose to stop it, maybe will survive. Those who don’t, get what they deserve. Easy peasy, even as the work itself is tough.

  13. Oregon Hobo

    So many straw men here… does anyone believe Mr. Z Man actually spoke to a libertarian about this issue?

    As a libertarian, I have the following observations:

    1) The Libertarian Party are a bunch of useless wankers who represent my ideals about as well as the Republican Party represents the ideals of conservatives.

    2) I see our age-old problem of having too many friends, allies, and sympathizers has reared its ugly head again. Can we ever truly rid ourselves of this dangerous surplus?

    3) Darwin has already written extensively on the dog buyers. They are poorly adapted for successful procreation. If they do manage do squeeze out a few spawn, those spawn are likely to be as breathtakingly moronic as their parents, and will face similar challenges in maintaining a level of prosperity sufficient to afford spawn of their own.

    4) I’m not even sure exactly what Z Man is proposing (aside from an ideological purging of the ranks)… a law against blatantly abusive contracts? We’ve already got plenty of ’em. They’re not always easy to bring into play, which is exactly how it should be. Yes, you can obtain legal remedy, but it will cost you time and money. Next time read the contract like a grown-up, retards, and stop being a public liability.

    5) Just as our republic requires a (mostly) moral people to function, it also requires people who are not drooling idiots. Yes, the grifter who scammed them is scum, but the people he scammed are every bit as much at fault. Remember, those people can vote. If they’re dumb enough to impulse-buy a $2400 purebred at the puppy shop on top of being too dimwitted to notice that they’re giving away thousands of $$ to a scam artist, how deeply do you suppose they will consider the 2nd- and 3rd-order ramifications of the next shiny new big govt spending program?

    6) If it was me, I’d simply go over to the fella’s house with a friend or 2 and renegotiate the contract. …but then I wouldn’t be in that situation to begin with.

    7) In the comments following the article, Z Man seems to have the Non-Aggression Principle confused with pacifism. Abiding by the NAP means one doesn’t start fights. I don’t suppose y’all are aware that Kyle Chapman is a libertarian? Are people like him really your top priority enemy? …Because we big strong men can’t abide his pacifist pussified ways? Claire Wolfe? These are the people we need to purge? WTF?

    Now can we please keep the damn muzzles pointed forward? Most libertarians are not your enemy… unless of course you really insist.

    Happy trails,


    • Tired of this shit

      Holy shit, man.

      Here I am, trying to figure out how to write an intelligent comeback, and you – you just did it!..

      Thank you.
      I could have NEVER said it better myself.

  14. Libertarians tend to be armed, not talking about those “great thinkers” with their nose in a book but those with their nose in the wind and a firm grasp on some very simple principles.
    No end of those ready to do war with the idea of self ownership is there, but the there is an end to thugs to do the statist’s dirty work just as there is an end to other people’s money and patience.

  15. Dear Lord! This woman has had children? You never, ever, never………not in this lifetime or the next 100, go to a pet store to purchase a dog. These places support puppy mills, and you wouldn’t wish that on any dog. IF a pet store sells animals; run! Contact a breeder, go to a breed specific rescue (if you need a bulldog), or go to a shelter. Who in their fXXking right mind pays $2400 for a dog THAT HAS NOT EVEN BEEN SHOWN OR VETTED!!??
    Okay…..calm now. This sort of stupid just cannot be fixed. And the owner of said “pet” store is just viper looking to extort money like a mafioso. He could also be Maxine Waters or John McCain. He is just a grifter looking to lie/cheat/steal for cash. This is exactly why I hate colleges and their Magic Paper.

  16. Oregon Hobo

    Alright, this will likely make me unpopular but here goes anyway. People here could stand to devote a lot more effort to the quality of their IFF.

    The more I hear from Z Man, the less he sounds like our brother in arms and the more he sounds like a white nationalist socialist. Going back to the recent Battle of Berkeley III for examples, Nathan Damigo (the fellow who achieved instant fame/infamy for his admittedly world-class donkey punch to Moldylock’s forehead) lays out what national socialism means for those who need a reminder:

    Seriously, click the above link. The relevant segment is <30 seconds and it's important.

    Done listening? Ok, now read on.

    While it's nice to see the long-overdue backlash against the "everyone's a racist/kill white people" mantra of the left, let's not mistake the enemy of our enemy for our friend.

    White authoritarianism is still authoritarianism and nationalist socialism is still socialism. This is the reason that tyranny in East Germany didn't even have to skip a beat with the advent of the Soviet occupation. Stalin found a thriving infrastructure of jack-booted thugs ready and willing to crush and purge their own people for a paycheck and an extra ration at the bread line, regardless of their employer or other superficialities such as trading out their Totenkopf pins for the hammer & sickle. Apparently their stated purpose of protecting the German people was more negotiable than they let on.

    That's one of the things about purging — it's so much fun it can be hard to know when to stop. Do we want the American Revolution or the French Revolution?

    I'm not trading one bunch of collectivists for another, and I hear more big-gov collectivism than anything else from Z Man. He can go purge himself AFAIC.


    • Oregon Hobo

      Aright well it looks like WordPress munged the time offset in my Youtube link. Move that slider to 09m 47s for the money quote from Mr. Damigo.


    • “devote a lot more effort to the quality of their IFF.”

      Lol. More? What else is there to do, at least as far as dealing with others?

    • >>> Stalin found a thriving infrastructure of jack-booted thugs ready and willing to crush and purge their own people for a paycheck and an extra ration at the bread line… <<<

      You're killin' it. There's an analogy in there, isn't there? Maybe someone doesn't see it and you should spell it out.

    • Damigo is a righteous fist. Right now, the enemy of my enemy – the the White-hating Judeoglobalists – is my friend. Later on, there’ll be other sortings-out. What’s going to happen in ‘Murka will not bear the slightest resemblance to the American or French revolutions.

      • Notarealperson

        You realize how funny this is. We have a bunch of tough guys acting like snowflakes and anti-fa because Z stepped on their pet religion. If they can’t handle a little criticism on-line, I sure feel bad for anyone who stuck with them in a combat situation.

        It’s just a opinion and you guys are already generating what amounts to bad guy or kill lists for those who don’t meet your criteria.. Scary.

        • “If they can’t handle a little criticism on-line…”

          What criticism? Arguing against fantasies that you make up in your mind, is not a criticism of anything real. It’s a saving grace for Haxo.

  17. I find some value in a lot of Z’s writings, but he’s got a real hard-on for libertarians. When you seem to want the blood of those who are idealogically in the same neighborhood outside their bodies as much or maybe more than you want that of the lefties and collectivists … well, it might be why the marxists don’t have a lot of fear us in flyoverville

  18. Dusty Wunderlich et al, are in dire need of a Estwing riggers axe,firmly planted in the medulla oblongata. Predatory scumbag meets Estwing. Estwing wins. The emotional despair many humans feel over the loss of a dog is devastating.This puts them in the category of an at-risk person. The loss is comparable because the dog never fucked them over,lied or stole their shit. A good hunting or livestock dog takes years of training and commitment. To watch a Blue Heeler work cattle or a Catahoola run wild hogs is a thing of beauty. I rather hang out with my hound dogs than most people.

  19. Grenadier1

    Sure, lets evaluate political systems by the measuring stick of character motivations from Dungeons and Dragons……

    He completely leaves out a key principle of libertarian thought.
    No person may infringe on an others life, liberty, or property through force or FRAUD.
    This person has a very good case that they were defrauded.
    This person signed a bad contract. The guy who crafted that contract was a douche. Nothing in traditional Conservatism would prevent that douche bag from parting this women from her money. Unless of course he is suggesting that under pure Conservatism, an equally as unlikely Utopia, something that would protect this fool would be “good Christians just would not DO that”.
    There have been and always will be people who take advantage of others.
    Hell, the religious have done this for generations. I need only point to one Jim Baker and the PTL network…
    Nothing in libertarian principles prevents the passing of laws that clearly define what constitutes fraud. Nothing in those principles would prevent this person from taking the man to court and asking an independent third party to decide if she was defrauded or not. There is nothing in libertarian principles that would predetermine that the contract is valid.

    This is yet another attack on a philosophy that is hand in hand with Freedom and Liberty that is based on a complete misunderstanding of that philosophy. I would argue that if he is encountering people who claim to be libertarians and that are actively encouraging fraud then they to have no understanding of the principles of Freedom.

    • Save the caps cuz it’s wrong. You won’t see it for a few years yet, but fraud isn’t force. But sure, almost everyone will attest that it is. I tell ’em go experience each and see if they can tell the difference. The rest is words.

      • You are correct that it is not fraud. But without a meeting of the minds, it’s also not a valid contract, since that is an essential element of one. Be interesting to see if enough people believed the agreement was something different than what it was represented to be to get this Dusty clown what he deserves. Wouldn’t take too many triple punitives to make the point.

        • “it’s also not a valid contract”

          Interesting. Sounds right, offhand, but doesn’t matter anyway cuz a guy’s gonna do what a guy chooses to do, either with or without others. IMO the presumption’s gotta be that there will be tons less force, fraud and even assholery when it doesn’t work, unlike being strongly incentivized as it is now.

      • Grenadier1

        I didn’t say fraud was force. There is an “or” between them. Nor do I assume that the two are equal.

        • Okay. Thing is…if it’s not force, then it doesn’t belong in a list of things that should be forcefully stopped. I suppose it’s moot anyway since if those higher principles were brought to reality, what you or I believe wouldn’t affect anyone else anyway.

  20. Was that really zman? 1990 or 2017?

    >>> They assume that if something is allowed to be done, it should be done. <<<

    I get it. Start with an utterly absurd strawman premise–notable only for being the precise OPPOSITE of the truth –and then argue against that. Must be 1990.

    Then instantiate it with some wild story about some moron who supposedly LEASED a dog and got clipped. That sounds relevant to identifying broad principles. Not. Or does everyone find themselves in that sort of situation regularly?

    Out of charity, maybe we should leave for another time the irony–is that the word?–of someone who believes that something that's never worked long-run in all of history–and plainly isn't working now in its very best of examples, the USA–might somehow work in the future…calling those who disagree with that ridiculous conclusion…get this…wait for it…"utopian."

    Is that irony or something else? Jon? I sure hope that wasn't zman…or at the very least won't be.

  21. I don’t see why Z-Man thinks this has anything at all to do with libertarianism. Dusty doesn’t intend to rely on shunning to enforce his supposed claims.

    Z-Man mockingly speaks of “libertarian paradise” and presumes BS like this would be omnipresent. That everyone would subscribe to an insurer/security service as happy to screw their willing customers as much as the state does their unwilling ones. But it wouldn’t take too many this kind of incidents happening to pet “owners” insured with Corleone Family Security before they sent over Guido and Rocky to ‘splain things to Dusty’s kneecaps.

    Or as Heinlein put it, an armed society is a polite society.

  22. I thought it was interesting that Francis Porretto (Liberty’s Torch) was decidedly Not Amused. While I certainly have my differences with Mr. Porretto on cultural issues, I highly respect his thinking in political theory. WRT that subject, thezman would be better off sticking to movies and sportsball. His (and that of many of his commenters) non sequiturs and flailing at strawmen are downright embarrassing in contrast.

  23. It’s always refreshing to see so many come to the defense of a potentially stateless society.

    A few things to add to the comments on Z-man’s jeremiad.

    I am a small “l” libertarian, I’ve been a member of the LP for three months in the 1990s where simple exposure to those dolts and government fetishists turned me off permanently.

    As pointed out in a previous comment, libertarians are tiny single digit minority in the general population and I am a single digit percentage of libertarians as an anarcho-capitalist and abolitionist.

    I also want to offer the corrective that the libertarian vision is dystopian, we know that life will be riven by failures and mistakes that will set people back in pursuit of their private lives; the advantage is there is no class of violence brokers at the top socializing these risks and mistakes to the entire population without their consent. The stateless society embraces the imperfection of man.

    The utopians are the limited and maximum government fetishists and there is little difference between them. I have come to the conclusion of late that all government no matter how small in its incipient stage advances toward communism. It may flirt with socialism and fascism on the way but they all end the same; especially the imperial specimens. Make no mistake, the antifa are commies but breaking bread with national socialists to fight them will in the end deliver more of the state.

    No thanks.

    Every one on WRSA practices anarchy everyday in your private lives through infinite interactions with other humans. Some contend otherwise but they are simply making the point that they need the threat or instantiation of violence from the state to keep them from harming family, friends and strangers.


    Bill Buppert

  24. If anybody wants to start that party, I have some Libertarian friends who are ready,
    willing and capable of welcoming them with well placed “open arms”.
    NAP not included.

    I found Libertarian philosophy a great stepping
    stone to #ABOLITION.
    Seems many here worship at the altar as long as the kabuki favors “their side”.
    I think the statist cult should go first.

    Good thing Z Man didn’t bring up the bankers.

    There’s too many of us.

  25. fuck the gubbermint and fuck the poLICE

  26. Xavier Xelente

    What in the actual fuck was that garbage? One scumbag, who claims some sort of libertarian philosophy, rips people off. This leads to the conclusion that:

    “It is why the Dissident Right should treat modern libertarians like plague carrying rage zombies. Economics is down stream from culture, far down stream. The willingness of libertarians to stab the Right in the back over culture issues just so they can score some rhetorical points over economics makes them more dangerous than the Left. Every war is a culture war, even the shooting kind. It is one group aiming to prove that their gods, their ways, their culture is superior, by imposing it on others, by any means necessary.”

    Really? Im to the age where I’m not going to try to change minds. I’m not going to try to explain modern libertarianism. I’m not going to talk about how interactions between men should be voluntary, or how having the government steal for you is more immoral than stealing for yourself, which is plenty immoral in and of it’s self. Nope. Not going to bother.

    I’ll simply say this — this libertarian owns guns and knows how to use them. This libertarian carries a gun every day, everywhere. This libertarian does PT three times a week in addition to a physically taxing job. So killing this libertarian may be a bit more difficult than beating one of those basement dwelling AntiFa types. BFYTW.

    • kay_de_leon

      I think somewhere in there he also used ‘cowboy ethics’ as a way to describe his moral spine, and we know how historically wrapped up in babylonian money magick the cowboys were. Here is a hipster faggot dressing up like he’s being photographed for a GQ editorial, ripping off people dumb enough to spend 2500 bucks they don’t have on a dog, saying that he is protected by the libertarian and cowboy-ethics philosophies because it sounds cool to him to say, a blogger reaches a ridiculous conclusion, and I spend my time typing about it in turn. Go home internet, you’re drunk.