A Modern Liberator?

From Gab comes the question-set below:

@wrsa, @ProGunFred, @DemonTwoSix – thought experiment if you’re interested – can you favor us with 1-2 gab posts about your criteria for a “modern Liberator,” and what that would entail?

1. quick to manufacture
2. cheap
3. disposable
4. materials/manufacture
5. sourcing
6. financing
7. distro

Eis Augen PRO · @EisAugen

What the world needs is a modern Liberator – single shot 9mm that can be reloaded quickly, rudimentary suppressor option, made as cheaply as possible in a third country, to supply to our people.

Thoughts?

64 responses to “A Modern Liberator?

  1. Centurion_Cornelius

    Methinks the two limiting factors (among many) are: single shot and effective range. The original FP-45 in .45ACP with unrifled barrel had an effective range of about 25 feet (8m.) Try fiddle-fart reloading a second round at those close quarters with adversaries within 8 meters.

    Not saying a modern FP-9 can’t be made, prolly via 3D printing, epoxy, and polymer, but, why horse with such a single shot project when you can buy a sub-compact 9MM like the Taurus G2 Millennium with a 12 + 1 capacity for less than $200?

    Yeah, yeah–I hear ya: “For the masses” clarion call , but the record during festivities from ’42-’45 do not show nor build confidence using the FP-45.

    Sounds to me like somebody wanted to frantically “do something–anything” and GM’s coffers were filled and 300 workers got a paycheck for 11 weeks of production. YMMV.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “why horse with such a single shot project when you can buy a sub-compact 9MM like the Taurus G2 Millennium with a 12 + 1 capacity for less than $200?”

      Just a guess, but $200 guns start to get expensive if you keep having to dump them.

    • ExGeeEye

      IIRC the goal was not long-range shooting *or* combat with multiple adversaries.

      This was an assassination arm.

      The idea was to get close to someone with the “good stuff” (usually but not limited to a Wehrmacht private with a K-98 and a few rounds in his pouches), away from his buddies, pop him and scarper with his goods.

      Someone once wrote a good article about “:what good is a pistol against an army” that went into greater and better-documented detail. Recommended reading.

  2. What country needs this right now? Are they talking about the US?

  3. I keep coming back to it … the guns are NOT important.

    If you had any fight in you, then you wouldn’t find yourself disarmed.

    You could airdrop 10 million of these things to the Brits. No-one would use them.

    • Best point of the whole thread.

      In the US – the guns are not the problem. There’s already plenty for the asking. With 80% lowers, the profusion of machine shop technology and equipment thru-out the land, etc – I don’t really think it’s a “gun” problem.

      It’s a will and understanding problem.

    • “You could airdrop 10 million of these things to the Brits. No-one would use them.”
      Precisely; and most of them weren’t used at all. Large quantities were OSS-dropped in the CBI theater as well; most never heard from again.
      Besides the fact that Defense Distributing has gone down this road (w/o speaking here to tooling/infrastructure needed). And the spec of “suppressed” tells me we’re not talking about 1 round for Grandma’s lawful personal defense – you should take better care of Grandma. “Ball-peening” individual yokels at an inner-city BLM party…? Might be another matter.

      If the intent is simply mass armament, there is a separate lesson to be learned from a Jedburgh team that was dropped with a full SAS contingent. The hi-speed/low-drag SAS’ers saw themselves as the big hammer & everything else a nail. So the first thing they did (without ID’ing resistance leadership, personnel vetting, training, etc. as the Jedburgh team would’ve done) is to call in airdrops of weapons & just “hell, let’s arm everyone.” This caused a spate of uncoordinated, trivial & out-gunned attacks by Les Bubbas that did nothing but call down the reprisals on villagers & also got them swarmed out of several base camps. Whether a single-shot, a purloined K-98, or favorite black rifle it’s the intended use that needs deliberation. Just a thought.

  4. Third country supply? I would prefer domestic, and if it has to be third country, I propose North Carolina.

  5. Modern and reliable (repeating) firearms are readily available, and many instances, inexpensive used. If the talk now is of needing weapons to be passed out, why not buy used and put them aside?

  6. Why????? America IS NOT like a disarmed Europe in 1943. There are enough handguns in the US to arm every man and woman twice over. Due to the sheer NUMBERS of firearms in the US involuntary disarmament of the American people has become impossible in any military sense. American gun owners out number the combined force of all the worlds governments and if they wish to resist disarmament by force no single political force could disarm them. So again, WHY? I have nothing against the idea of a cheap disposable untraceable murder weapon, to be used to “liberate” an oppressed populace. I just see no need of one in the US. The leads to my question. WHY do YOU think that a weapon that is cheap, suppressed, untraceable and disposable. A weapon intended from the outset as a murder weapon, is a good idea? Because that’s exactly what the “liberator” pistol was meant to be. A weapon to be scattered from aircraft at random over occupied Europe and used to MURDER German solders.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “WHY do YOU think that a weapon that is cheap, suppressed, untraceable and disposable. A weapon intended from the outset as a murder weapon, is a good idea? Because that’s exactly what the “liberator” pistol was meant to be.”

      Probably the exact same thing for this new one. It’s a throw away piece for doing nasty things.

    • Grenadier1

      If you are French then the Germans needed MURDERING!!
      Thus the name Liberator.

    • Not sure how you thought this was for domestic purposes. The rest is exactly correct.

    • Cassandra (of Troy)

      Lee Enfield/05May17@07:29,

      Re: The Welrod

      Posted the plans for it/other diy bangtoys from weaponeer.net quite awhile back & got crickets in response. Just tried the site & it comes up Error 503, dunno if it’s dead & gone or it’s my rig that’s funky & won’t let me get in. Mebbe you’ll have better luck, my fave’s the Sleeve Gun which is a Welrod w/o the mag pistol grip. Nice piece but it requires kissing the dog which is well outside most folk’s comfort zone, funny thing about that finickyness is how many seemingly have no prob using a shiv or garrotte.

      Another item that’s rather interesting is the medical air injector, as w/ a shiv/garrotte/Sleeve Gun it requires closeness but has lotsa possibilities.:

      http://www.healthline.com/health/type-2-diabetes/insulin-jet-injectors

      & this is a hi-tech improvement of the above.:

      http://news.mit.edu/2012/needleless-injections-0524

      Used w/ insulin or, say, another appropriately debilitating substance & combined w/ a carrier like DMSO, such a system’s more versatile than the aforementioned w/ the added benefit of being less immediately identifiable as a weapon. Posted info about it as well & as before got insect noises.

      Dunno why, could be that such methodologies aren’t ‘manly’ enough &/or too ‘dishonorable’/’unfair’, like how snipers are seen by some in the mil which is strange since those who lay mines/set up boobytraps don’t seem to garner that attitude from their compatriots.

  7. anonymous

    Cobra derringer in 9mm is just above $150 at Buds Gun Shop. Not suppressor friendly though.

  8. The path of least resistance (my favorite path) would be to use a factory or aftermarket threaded barrel, rather than trying to manufacture one. Unless you’re already set up for that sort of thing, it would be the hardest part of the project. I estimate that a decent threaded (Glock 19?) barrel would cost around ~$90.

    As some of you already know, the threads must be concentric to the bore or you will get baffle strikes on your suppressor. I would also recommend a thread protector as standard issue.

    So, what’s left? A breech block of some sort, firing mechanism, grip and sights. The sights don’t have to be adjustable, but please make them so that the user can get a good sight picture. Most of the user base will probably have less than 20/20 vision. An example of what we don’t want in sights would be the thumbnail sights found on stock GI 1911s – see the pistol on the right:

    Here’s an example of what would be better – Walther PPQ:

    Dots are optional.

    The grip shape and angle will ignite a Holy War of OMG Glock vs. 1911 etc. Since this is supposed to be a single shot, I see no reason not to make it modular.

    This won’t please everyone, but it will greatly improve the signal to noise ratio.

    I am also partial to some sort of attachment that would allow for a shoulder stock to be used. This could be one of the options available with the modular grip frame – 1911, Glock, stock attachment. A shoulder stock would greatly increase first-round hits and extend the range of the pistol. Of course, if would also be verboten under many, many laws.

    But this is all hypothetical, right? 🙂

    • Anonymous

      A shoulder stock on a pistol is illegal. You wouldn’t want to do anything illegal, that would be wrong. Better just get on the boxcar quietly, comrade, you wouldn’t want to make any grave moral errors.

  9. SemperFido

    Actually doesn’t need to be foreign made. 3D printed with only the spring, firing pin and barrel made of metal. Just spread the print instructions far and wide.

  10. Randall Flagg

    A wise man once said, a pistol is nothing more than a tool one uses to fight their way back to their rifle. (~Boston T. Party).

    Rifle up, boys.

  11. nick flandrey

    Hmm, like this only scaled up??

    https://serbu.myshopify.com/products/gb-22-plans

  12. I may be talking out of my ass here, but for a real one-time, DIY, fire once and drop kind of gun, I can’t imagine anything better than the black pipe/4 winds/Richardson “guerrilla gun” style shotgun.

    I would wager that shotgun ammunition is less controlled and more accessible than handgun ammunition to civilians in restrictive areas around the world. The UK has banned just about everything, but one clean guy with a shotgun license could buy cases of ammo and distribute it to the neighborhood.

    It can be made as long or short and as fancy or simple as you want with literally nothing but hardware store supplies. Disassembled, it looks like plumbing parts. Loaded with buckshot, you’ve got something that a teenager can afford and assemble that can put out the equivalent of a submachine gun burst.

    Making these things in the U.S. is mostly an academic exercise, though, because to quote Dale Gribble, we have literally oodles of guns.

    • Bad Attitude

      As I consider various scenarios, I tend to agree that a single-shot slam-fire shotgun made from plumbing parts is a more practical “liberator” type firearm than a handgun. A slam-fire shotgun can be made using only a few simple hand tools from parts that can be purchased for a few dollars.

      Scenarios I envision are more of the nature of neighborhood defense, where it may be desirable to distribute firearms to more than a few people.

  13. Herman Gothe

    Would have to be used on communists not the true liberators as was done during the bad war.

  14. With the profusion of 3D printers – and also the ubiquity of small lathes and even cheap build it yourself CNC technology – both of which use internet share-able file formats like .dxf – and can be programmed thru G-code (which is also easily share-able) ……..

    It should not be too hard to come up with a design that could be easily replicated in any of thousands (more likely hundreds of thousands) of “home shops” that dot the landscape in this country.

    The barrel needs to be metal – but it’s easily small enough to be something that could be turned out on a desktop lathe. A handle – and a body – are easily something that could be printed in any of cheap 3D printers that are out there now – that people are BUYING AS HOBBIES ( go look at places like Dell – they sell them as hobbyist machines – and they wouldn’t be selling them at all – unless there was volume there).

    What is needed here is a GOOD DESIGNER and one or maybe two acceptable designs. These will be refined by the “community” – until a good standard is reached.

    The third world country does not need to be involved.

    • +1.

      I’d also add that, given the current environment, a reliable, common magazine would be easy enough to source and design around for the proposed pistol to be an SA design, as others have alluded to.

  15. wendystringer48088

    First, before discusiing anything related to the Liberator .45 acp single shot pistol, I think this article is required reading: http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/07/vanderboegh-handgun-against-army-ten.html
    Aside from that, my personal opinion is that some things sound like a good idea but iare not as useful in actual practice. Did any partisan actually sneak up on a single German soldier and get close enough to shoot him with one of these Liberator single shot pistols and take his K-98 / MP-43 / Luger / whatever before the rest of the local Wehrmacht reacted to the gunshot and blew away the partisan? I doubt it.
    In any event, times have changed. You can buy a perfectly legal and factory made 9mm pocket pistol for around $250 – $300. If you are worried about someone coming in your house and taking them buy more than one and put one in each plastic emergency survival storage container you bury along with your cans of SPAM, jars of peanut butter, water purification tablets, change of clothes, flashlight, am/fm radio, spare batteries, candles and Bic lighters.
    Aside from that, get a couple (or more) 80 percent AR Lowers and learn how to make yourself something that you can put your own serial number on (like “BFYTW001, BFYTW002”, etc.) if you don’t want to fill out a 4473 form and pay a FFL transfer fee for a completed lower receiver. https://www.80percentarms.com/
    The bad guys (drug cartels and other armed gangs) have AKs. ARs, Glocks, etc. high quality semi-auto weapons. Buy and build and train quality if you are serious about it. Your time is worth money too, even if you are not paying yourself so much $$$ an hour, you are spending your time, which like money you have a limited supply of.
    I am also biased in my views on building a modern day Liberator or similar weapon because I feel too many patriots have gone to prison or otherwise gotten into trouble for gun related crimes (like Randy Weaver with his shotgun 1/4″ too short) and many other cases. Building illegal guns that are going to be ineffective anyway is not worth the risk, in my not so humble opinion. Just my thoughts.

  16. Seeing as how cheap stutterguns can be fabricated from scrap metal in Brazillian slums (see The Firearm Blog for examples, some even sport rifled barrels made on site…my favorite story is the Santa Claus guy), I figure somebody can figure out how to put plans up for something cheap…
    Maybe.
    Or grab a few of Smith’s SD9VE’s, my local FunShop has them under $300 this month and there’s a rebate…
    Just saying.

  17. 3 D Printing. That is all

  18. Bill Cthulhu

    If we’re thinking 21st Century version, go derringer. Also, one design that Liberator did right, rounds in the handle. My thoughts on this, one round in each barrel, 6 or so rounds in a hollow handle. Ejector ideas, anyone?

    Do consider – if things get multi-generationally hot in FUSA, we need to homeschool our children – and grandchildren – in concepts of polymer strength, repair of everything, and hoarding of key items (springs, rods, strong metals). The classic show “Junkyard Wars” comes to mind. It was a family date show while we homeschooled the brood.

  19. Thomas The Tinker

    My dear sainted Auntee worked on these at the ‘Guide’ plant in Indiana. Ehhhhh…. Thanks No.. Over the years I have found (and have to this day) several old break top 38s.. 38 short colts.. 38s&w… none cost me over $110.oo as they where always in that pile on the gun show table labeled “Best Offer”… HomeDepot ShotWaffen…… Mine cost me $11.34. Works. It is resting in a plastic bucket out in the barn with a sandwich bag of assorted loads…. I’ll know where to hide when the Orcs come!

  20. Buy a HighPoint! There is currently no shortage of guns in the US. In the gun free utopia of Chicago thugs are switching over to ARs. Thanks to Obama MX is flooded w/AKs, plus there is 3-D Printing!

  21. The liberator was supposed to be used to get a rifle from an enemy soldier. Single shot mostly. Point blank. The Taylor Street zip gun in Chicago was a handy. 22lr or 22 short made form a car antenna.

  22. While not hand guns, I started purchasing older quality shotguns during the M4 surge. Most were pre register guns, and cheap. Although they were older, most had very ligh round counts. In fact most appeared to have only a few boxes of shells thru them.

    I’m a big Ithaca 37 featherweight fan, was able to pick up several of them in great shape. Lots of older Remington’s, model 11s semi auto, and a couple model 10s, which are also bottom loaders and ejectors. Bitchen old shotguns.

    Also picked up several 500s, for under 125.00 the early models had the steel internal parts, not plastic.

    I cut every other SG barrel at 18.5 inchs. Some got the stock shortened up. Some didn’t need it. The goal was to purchase a viable defense weapon, that required zero after market parts and are disposable, for under 150.00.

    Estate sales, and yard sales are great places to discreetly shop for thes kinds of tools. Contact the home owner, and quietly inquire into possible firearms for sale.

    The art of negotiations is critical.

    Dirk

  23. Also, take a cue from criminal cultures in disarmed countries – UK, South Africa, Palestine, prison. You want a cheap, disposable weapon that works at close range? Look to the knife block in your kitchen. The Liberator was pretty much a point-blank weapon. A butcher knife is, too, it’s quieter, and you already have one.

    Like other commenters said, it’s about the will to use it. The gun isn’t a magic wand. You still have to be willing to kill the other guy. A chloroform rag (got bleach and acetone?) over the mouth and a pointy thing pistoned in and out of the jugular, caratoid, subclavian and/or brainstem…lights out.

  24. DWEEZIL THE WEASEL

    We have Liberator pistols. They are the Kel-Tec PF-9’s. Have you ever tried out one of those heavy-triggered, jam-o-matic pieces of garbage? It’s good that Zimmerman did not need a second shot. His jammed after he shot Barry’s son.

  25. Serbu’s GB-22, build it in 9mm.

  26. even a hi-point is going to be more useful than a single shot, they’re cheap and available, probably even cheaper slightly used.
    I think if there is a need for weapons for the masses, getting a low cost battle rifle into production would be way more beneficial.

  27. I suspect the idea of the post’s request for a cheap gun is to flood France, Germany and Sweden with cheap guns to help natives defend themselves against the invasion. How do you get a butt-load of guns into the hands of people quickly. We don’t need this type of weapon here in the US. We need to shower to folks in Europe with them.

    • Ding ding ding – see below.

    • Notarealperson

      Problem with sending them overseas to say France or Germany is that you will run afoul of the ATF, FBI and European police forces who are intent on keeping native Europeans disarmed at all costs.

      What is needed are weapons that can manufactured locally with small shop with a maybe a lathe and milling machine along with some sheet metal tools. With a set up like that you could easily build your own M-3 “grease gun”, or Sten and shot guns galore. Along with some very nasty IED’s.

      The thing is getting them the ammo. Whatever weapons being designed would have to use ammo that is commonly found in Europe right now. Probably 9mm, 7.62 x39mm, 12 GA rounds.

      It would be very easy to convert a bedroom into a small but very useful workshop for about $4k or the price of one modded out AR-15.

    • Again? We shipped em 100,000s of guns in WW2, where are they? They willingly gave up their guns in the 1990s. I won’t waste my blood or treasure playing White Knight to a bunch of socialist fucks, let them earn their Liberty, for once, the same goes for Europe!

  28. AK’s can be had in third world utopias for almost nothing. And paperwork? HAHAHAHA.

  29. I don’t think that the issue is what is available in the US – we have lots of guns, and that’s not a problem. The issue is making things available to our Schutzbund Gebrueder that are overseas.

    Building a receiver is not a big deal – steel stock, an angle grinder, and a MIG welder will suffice. The problem is barrels and ammunition.

    An unrifled zip gun can be Jerry-rigged [pun intended] using tube steel, but that’s not a very good weapon. An auto-loader with a rifled barrel would be much preferred, and even a magazine-fed rifle would be leaps-and-bounds better than a zip gun.

    Presumably, the Schutzbund would opt to violate import/export restrictions, and bring in key parts that are not otherwise available in the subject area. A better way to discuss this would be to first determine what materials are available in the subject area:

    Ammunition
    “Spare” parts
    Magazines
    Tooling
    Steel stock

    I’m willing to wager that ammunition and barrels are going to be the key pieces. They’re critically important, and they generally require specialized tooling to manufacture.

    Here is a technique to make button-rifled barrels using simple tools:

    Really, it comes down to ammunition supply.

  30. Hi everyone, I was the original poster, and the Gab format limits us to 300 characters for postings. This is NOT an appropriate tool for the US. We are awash in quality combat weapons. It is more of a thought experiment for a theoretical outside support of resistance members in countries with serious restrictions on combat weapons. The Liberator was one example in WWII. The CIA Deer Gun was created in the 60s and is closer to what I was thinking of originally as a scalable modern solution.

    Additionally we know that this is not a combat weapon. It’s for obtaining better equipment or for liquidation.

    My thoughts on the criteria:

    1. 9x19mm – since this is the most common handgun cartridge in the world. For example: all Euro law enforcement and military use 9mm.

    2. CHEAP – this is a sliding scale. There is “CIA Deer Gun” cast aluminum single shot cheap, then there is Hi-Point cheap. Further, we can get into a better grade of weapon, like a Kel-Tec PF9, which is “cheap” but would be more useful overall. Finally, we can consider the making of an inexpensive Welrod type weapon, compared to the Swiss-made, high quality VP-9 “Veterinarian’s Pistol,” given the philosophy of us (which is open to discussion).

    3. PHILOSOPHY OF USE – It’s all about the concept of arming people in a third country in the most effective way for the dollar spent. In Europe, for example, we are seeing the beginnings of massive street brawls, but all that does productively is build forces and toughen people mentally. It really accomplishes nothing r.e. the problem they’re facing, and effective people can get rolled up by LE.

    If a developing resistance force in a theoretical fictional country had the ability to be supplied from the outside with weapons, the best use of those weapons would be “Clinton Rules” type applications. Single shot or low-life semi auto handguns, like a Deer Gun or a Hi-Point, would suffice for this. The ability to go suppressed would be valuable, especially if the weapons could be built to accept a simple disposable suppressor if desired. This is where a Hi-Point may not be great. Maybe it would be fine.

    4. MANUFACTURE – while we can talk about 3d printing, etc. my idea is a manufacture in a real facility, wherever, i.e. not worrying about “80% receivers” or “deniable materials” or anything like that. I am talking cheap and good enough for the purpose here to be conceptually similar to a Liberator. Imagine CNC, how would we keep the costs down? Materials? Simple designs with as few operations as possible? Casting? Stampings?

    5. FINANCING – I am envisioning a crowd-funded operation where people can donate via BitCoin. Pretend that this is being carried out in a libertarian paradise outside of the reach of INTERPOL, or whatever.

    6. MINIMUM STANDARDS – what are the minimum standards for this to be useful/appropriate? Fifty $10 weapons or five $100 weapons?

    • What you want is a couple of short billy club-length steel pipes and a nail or metal screw through a threaded end cap for a firing pin on the larger one, with the inner pipe being the proper size for a standard 12ga shotgun round (0.725 in.), as manufactured for use on sharks in the ’60s, and described for the fictional drug retailer extermination program and CIA audition for Tom Clancy’s “Mr. Kelly/Mr. Clark” in Without Remorse.
      At that point, the victim’s torso serves as the suppressor, and just about any torso hit is a mortal wound.
      Alternatively, making the device just a bit longer than a fist, and used icepick-style on the head, or at the cervical hump below the base of the neck from behind rather than in front, will serve about as well.
      The overachievers could make two such, and it would look like they punched someone, rather than eviscerated them (until gravity kicks in and the exsanguination follows), and anyone would always have a ready follow-up shot in their second hand.

      If you have a locale lacking 12″ x 3/4″ or so plumbing pipe and 12 ga. shells (though obviously, the concept would work sized down to anything, even .410 shells), you have bigger problems anyways.

      Unless you find a crated pallet-load of actual Liberator pistols free for the asking, that’s probably the simplest, cheapest solution you’ll get.

      And for a bonus, the same technique works to construct toe-popper IED land mines, if one can find a use for such (as the VC frequently proved with .30 and .50 cal. ammunition). And if made of PVC instead of metal pipe, just about undetectable with mine detectors.
      Just saying.

    • If the goal is to produce a simple, cheap, single-shot, one-time-use weapon; and if legality and regulation are not issues; then a zip gun is the natural choice.

      Two pieces of tube steel, threaded at both ends – one for the barrel and one for the action.
      One double-threaded “bolt” to join the two tubes, with a hole for the firing plunger’s firing pin.
      A round firing plunger with one flat end, an integral firing pin, and a cocking knob/bolt on the side.
      A spring to drive the plunger.
      A pipe cap to seal the plunger spring in the action tube.

      Some minimal machining and filing will be necessary to produce the plunger and keyways in the action (don’t forget a half-cock position). Everything else can probably come off the shelf, assuming that the appropriate tube steel can be located.

      This is a cheap and easy as it gets. But nobody would not consider this an effective combat arm, and I doubt many people would have the chutzpah to use this as an assassination tool against armed troops. And if there are such people with such chutzpah, then it would MUCH more cost effective to give them real weapons from the get-go.

      So if the “real” goal is to arm our overseas Schutzbund Gebrueder, more thought should be given to the illicit manufacture and transportation of real combat arms. A blowback subgun is the natural choice, and is what Maquis forces historically used instead of the Liberator – one $14 Sten gun is more cost-effective than five $3 Liberators. This is a lesson from history, and we should remember it.

      • Excellent points, thank you!

        I like the idea of an integrally suppressed PPS-43 in 9mm better than a STEn for mass production – not that the Poles will give up their remaining stockpiles to their neighbors – but they could be easily converted for Polish use.

    • I stand by my 12 gauge pipe gun, but if you’re sold on 9mm, and some sort of standardized, scalable workshop production item, PA Luty’s designs are floating all over the internet, and the design has been proven in Brazil, Palestine and Australia:

    • Like many others, this doesn’t answer your question…

      It sounds like you want a manufacturing facility and distribution. From Afghanistan, to Brazil, to Russia, to the USA, there are small shops able to secretly produce weapons. What I suggest is instead of distributing guns themselves, is to distribute plans for simplified and cheap manufacture. These plans would adapt for any locally available ammunition and would work for additive (3d printer) or subtractive (lathe/milling machine) manufacture. There are many DIY plans available, some even linked here, they need to be even simpler. Example: “Change caliber? Change these 3 dimensions this much.”

      To answer your original question though …

      Reliable. It needs to work every single time. This type of weapon can never fail. A corollary: It needs to be safe until it is fired. Never a discharge no matter what kind of mishandling it gets.

    • wendystringer48088

      “It is more of a thought experiment for a theoretical outside support of resistance members in countries with serious restrictions on combat weapons.”

      I would say for the trouble (metal materials, machine shop, skilled labor, acquiring ammunition, packaging, transporting and distributing and not to mention breaking all sorts of Federal and International laws in the process) to just build 9mm Sten guns. It’s a proven design, plans available, and they worked just fine for Britan during WW2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt70ilN_PgU

      Besides, the way you described the uses you had in mind for the silenced single shot disposable 9mm handgun it sounds like an assassin’s gun, and I want no part of something like that. As I understand it, “liquidation” means killing a prisoner for political purposes. Something the Nazis and Communists did a lot of.

      It’s one thing to defend yourself against an attack by a crimminal gang or enemy soldiers, and quite another to suddenly up the ante to get an advantage in a street conflict. That will work once big time as you’ll have allt he advantages of the surprise and shock on your side. But after that the other side will modify / escalate their methods to match yours. Remember when making plans, the enemy always gets a vote too.

  31. The Modern Liberator Pistol is the Hi Point C9

    It is durable, accurate, reliable, CHEAP, and effective.

  32. Hells Bells!… 300+ million Guns in America and someone thinks a liberator is needed?. Guns are everywhere. Pick your favorite.. hell pick a different one for every day of the week.

  33. Grenadier1

    You guys have very little imagination.

    Two lines of thought here.
    One would be a gun that uses a few metal parts that are easily available to the average DIY resistor. The rest of the gun is all polymer and 3D printed. This means the file can be shared and the materials are not easily traced to the manufacturer, thus providing a means to catch our resistor. Since we are doing this thing for MURDER purposes already just go ahead and make it integrally silenced as part of the base design. No need to worry about a tax stamp if you MURDER the government that issues them!
    This all assumes that we are doing this domestically and that they will be used domestically to do MURDER stuff when the time comes. You MURDER the commie, antifa, local commissar, bad dude, then you drop it in a storm drain. Bonus points if the polymer dissolves with long term exposure to water.

    Second line of thought
    Assume we are doing this OCONUS and we are thinking they will be needed to either smuggle into a disarmed US or into Europe for the coming CounterJihadocaust 2.0. 3D printing is probably not as good of an option so materials could be stamped metal with a smooth bore. Just like the original but in 9mm. Could also remake the Sten Mk1 to drop as well. Might as well give the end users a chance in case there are not as many opportunities to obtain weapons from the MURDERED commies. All suppressed integrally of course. Run silent Run deep.

    • You and a handful of other folks are getting it.

      Not sure how people came to the conclusion that this would be relevant in the US.

      • Probably because that’s where something like 90+% of its readers live.
        Just spitballing.

      • wendystringer48088

        “Not sure how people came to the conclusion that this would be relevant in the US.”
        Quoting post from Eis Augen PRO · @EisAugen”
        “What the world needs is a modern Liberator – single shot 9mm that can be reloaded quickly, rudimentary suppressor option, made as cheaply as possible in a third country, to supply to our people.”

        “…to supply _our people._” is what threw me. I (like I suspect many here) by default assumed the U.S.

        Maybe it’s a Fourteen Words thing: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” 🙂

  34. Not only Europe, but there are people in Mexico that could use something to make activity more difficult for the cartels, and give the Autodefensas more bite.

    I think it will be tough to get cost of production much below $100, and adjusted for inflation that is a bit more than the Liberator cost to make in WWII.

    It would be a nifty project, but like many worthwhile activities, it will take more than just pennies to make it happen.

  35. Mark O'Ryan

    Why a specific implementation of a technology, rather than a broader technological base which is implementable in a wider range of Technological Readiness Levels (TRL)?

    For instance:

  36. Already exists. You may have heard of it. “high point”…..