Afghanistan: SF Is Not The Answer

H/t Herschel for this myth-challenging report from Tim Lynch.

Hearts and minds.

58 responses to “Afghanistan: SF Is Not The Answer

  1. Thanks to both Herschel and Tim. Maybe these SF guys need to start by reading some T.E. Lawrence.

    • TE Lawrence appears to have made his martial contributions without a beard. It seems superfluous. To blend in? The clothes say it all.

    • TE Lawrence understood the Bedouin mind. And he didn’t try to change that mind./ S//

      • It would seem most commanders who had success in the ME and Africa since 2GW started did much the same thing. We spoke of it before but Vorbeck went on and on in his book about taking the GEA natives as they were and not trying to push them into the Austrian (read every western army…to a lesser level) mold. Lawrence seemed cut from much the same cloth from what I’ve read from him. One would think the lessons learned could be applied inside the US as well, in terms of integration/mentorship/utilization of people in say…the Alleghenies. 😉

  2. Detroit III

    Good.write-up, but thr author needs and editor.

    Sited= cited.

  3. Mr. Frosty

    So, are we trying to win the war or win “hearts and minds”?

    Winning the war means killing and destroying anyone or anything that the enemy can use to make war. It doesn’t matter if your enemy thinks your shoes are ugly or your hat is worn in an unprofessional manner.

    Winning “hearts and minds” would involve converting to Islam and joining their fight against the nonbelievers. In Islam (like Judaism) anyone outside the faith is sub-human and treated as such.

    So…what’s our goal again?

    • TheyCallMeRockstar22

      To send our fighters outside of the country while guys like Anthony Weiner can diddle our teenage daughters.
      Meanwhile, Mexico has invaded and started a breakaway gov inside our country.
      So much for Muh Freedumb.

    • Hearts and minds is invalid unless you are as policy willing to kill every living thing. It seems to not have worked for us EVER. Maybe we just have not implemented it correctly (sounds like Communism that way).

    • What about non-muslim ancient people and cultures being threatened by the Taliban and Al Qeada?

      Did anyone to to them for their hearts and minds?

      • Mr. Frosty

        The oldest Christian communities in the world, the descendants of Abraham who accepted Jesus as the son of God, are currently being wiped from the earth. The US/Israeli/Saudi mercenaries, called ISIS, are burning down churches and villages, gang-raping nuns and enslaving Christian children. No one cares.

        Yet, if you fire a glorified bottle rocket at Israel, it’ll be on the news for 3 months and Israeli warplanes will bomb thousands of people. Amazing, it seems that whole killing Christ thing really worked out for them.

        • Jimmy the Saint

          “The oldest Christian communities in the world, the descendants of Abraham who accepted Jesus as the son of God, are currently being wiped from the earth.”

          They aren’t breaking overly much of a sweat to defend themselves, and their co-religionists aren’t breaking much of a sweat to help them, either.

        • “The Saudi mercenaries, called ISIS, are burning down churches…”

          Corrected that for you, Mr Fucktard.

    • What about non-muslim ancient people and cultures in Afghanistan being threatened by the Taliban and Al Qeada?

      Did anyone to to them for their hearts and minds?

      • There are not any non Muslims in Afghanistan. They were all killed, exiled, or assimilated long ago.

    • “Hearts and minds” is the American hubris. Lawrence was successful because he did not try to “win” hearts and minds. He just accepted them the way they were and used them.


      • “Hearts and minds…,” New SF. (Yes the infection began early — but not from within SF.)

        “[A]ccepted them the way they were and used them.” Old SF. Sounds callous, but you’re not going to change the indig. That was the genius of Lawrence.

        There are apocryphal stories of Lawrence’s indignation after WWI about the resulting ME chaos. Pff.


  4. Why are we in Afghanistan? Why? I don’t give a shit about the state of SF on their ops, why do they have ops at all there? Did we declare war on Afghanistan? If so, when, why? What were/are the objectives in that country?

  5. and once they leave .mil they have great cop skills.

    storming compounds and homes…

    • TheyCallMeRockstar22

      I actually caught up with a bunch of friends recently due to a suicide.
      Half of them are cops.

    • wendystringer48088

      ” …once they leave .mil they have great cop skills. storming compounds and homes…”
      Yes, I agree with what you are implying. And apparently they get to use their military training and skills with a much less restrictive set of ROE.
      And to top it off, apparently they purge the decent human military veterans from the police forces.
      Oh well, even the bad-ass SF guys have their weak spots, limitations and vulnerabilities. They may be invincible in a stand up fight, but they are limited in number, don’t stay around long, and abuse and piss off the locals. Plus I suspect many of them have their own personal problems.
      I plan to just keep working on improving myself, that is the only thing I have control over.

      • Basic truism. The only thing you will ever have control of ,is your own actions:hopefully.That is as local as you can get.Local,local,local.

      • Just like Santa, make your list of good and bad. Have a plan for the bad and his family. But alas we don’t have enough ammo.

    • Correct. A few I know think they’d make good cops because they know how to kick down doors.

      Basically that’s the only pre-requisite these days.

      Vets are a hot commodity these days for cop shops.

      • i’m starting to lean towards disarming the T.W.O.T vets and sending them to a psyche facility. there’s obviously mental issues with anyone serving these days.

    • According to you (for what that is worth) you live in Canada. What do you care what US cops do?/ S//

      • the poo poo have outlived their welcome. they need to be disbanded and put on trial for their crimes against the people.

        there is not one who is innocent…

  6. Article has some truths & misses some not so true.
    The pic in the article is Eric Curran was a soldier of West Virginia Army National Guard at that time.

    Much dis-mis info as usual.

    SWRichmond your a POS & LIAR for your comments behind a keyboard.
    I will make it a point to remember you.

    • TheyCallMeRockstar22

      The photo/story that wont go away.
      If they wanted to fix SF they would.
      They (globalists) are trying to turn everything into a mess

      • They can’t fix it in it’s current azimuth. Double standards for the Women fudging – fuzzy math scores on the schools. The plan is for an international Army blending of EU etc. for the coming planned CW here. That way Article 5 of NATO works for them towards containment. Whatever that looks like. It’s a shit sandwich of fodder. The Goyim know the plan & the Zionist’s would be better to run, hide in disgrace & shame. When the Moose-limbs figure out the recipe formula all bets are off… Epic Fail


    Culture and chemistry have played a major role in the ability of the Amerikan military to successfully pursue overseas tasks. This was originally pointed out by T.R. Fahrenbach, in his landmark work: THIS KIND OF WAR-A STUDY IN UNPREPAREDNESS. The military will not succeed if, every time they deploy, they need ice cream, Total Gym machines, Pizza Hut, and other incentives to get the “Millenials” to fight and die for “new markets.”
    This is just another straw in the wind which signals the further deterioration of the Amerikan War Machine as a whole. In 1971, while I was still in, a thoughtful officer penned a very prescient article in the Army Times titled: THE DEATH OF THE ARMY. His metaphorical description was: “…a dragon with a huge tail and tiny teeth.” I saw it first hand on active duty and when I was an active reservist from ’79-’87.
    You can crow about our successes in Desert Storm and Iraq(!?). But, we have not really had our heads handed to us since the debacle during the first year of the Korean “police action.” And, I hope for the sake of those few dedicated and hard-working men and women in uniform, that day never comes.

    • TheyCallMeRockstar22

      Dont forget, they are attaching all the cute Air force chicks to their units so they have something to do.
      The wives love that.
      SOF is broken.
      Its just dudes with H&Ks breaking stuff and doing power cleans.

    • 50,000 names carved in black granite in DC say we got our assess handed to us in Vietnam. Last I checked team Hammer & Sickle won that one. Full stop. The city we lost all those fine Young Americans protecting is named after Him Chi Min now. Right?

  8. Which is why I keep pointing out the difference between Old SF (my generation) and New SF (the “Mosby” generation). These days ODAs are little more than (badly) over-trained Ranger squads./ S//

    • TheyCallMeRockstar22

      They are obcessed with taking out “That one Bomb maker” like thats really gonna make a difference.
      They aren’t thinking big picture because they are just angry meat heads with H&Ks.
      SF is a dying breed.
      I went to selection twice and was frankly glad I didnt get selected because the guys they choose were all cheating on their wives and obcessed with painpills/coke/guns/whiskey.
      Thats 82nd/Ranger/Marine BS. Not SF.
      Pretty disappointing.

    • TheyCallMeRockstar22

      When did you get out SGT?
      Makes you wonder what happened.
      Its like the SF has turned into a 6 figure($$$$$$) Contractors stepping stone.

      • Funny, I never went SF Was only light Infantry in a LRSD unit and have never had any problems getting a contracting gig. I love the six figure income.
        And talking about the cheating,pain pills,coke,guns and whiskey…well thats pretty much the military in general, especially combat arms.
        It is was it is.

      • ’73 — ’97.

        It would take a lengthy article to explain what happened to SF. I was witness to the destruction. In a sense it was doomed from the beginning. It was in the Army but not of the Army. Such a creature is a “sign of contradiction.” Sure to bring down upon itself persecution.

        The Russians got it right. Their спецназ is GRU, not army.

        Suffice it to say that probably the last ODA in SF with more than half Old SF (deliberately culled — our ODA was sneered at as “Grandpa”), was shattered and scattered to the winds by New SF types after we mutinied — strictly according to regulation of course (yes, there are regulations governing mutiny).

        One suspects that most New SF types go to Selection for exactly that reason.


  9. TheyCallMeRockstar22

    Can confirm.
    Did 7 years in Bragg, got out.
    I have a bunch of SF friends.
    You ask “What’s Up”
    They say “Same Old”
    The SF is just The Wild Cat version of the Airborne with no uniform and their weapons say “H&K” on the side.
    However, SF and Friends have been pretty successful in Africa. But Africa is a disaster so pretty much any decision is the right one.
    What needs to happen is Hollywood needs to STFU about SOF and they need to operate WITH regular army.
    I hated operating with SEALs and SF in Baghdad. We always had funny/cool stories afterwards but the problem was that SEALs and SF are certified Assholes. They would show up for missions we “couldn’t handle” (Insulting because 18 year old Paratroopers are fearless) and they would ruin months or years of work in the AO.
    In short SOF became synonomous with “Shoot something, run away, let the Airborne clean it up”
    I hated it. That whole “Leave no man Behind” is BS, after they pull their triggers, they fucking book it and left us on the ground to clean up.
    Fuck those assholes.

    • In the old days the only SF type you’d know about in your AO would have been a rather unobtrusive LNO who would suggest that there are certain areas you ought not poke your nose into until he said it was OK. And life would have been somewhat more easy.

      But to an extent you are right. The New SF crash and smash folks are arrogant.


  10. I’m not certain if SF has ever abided by their original code they were plank owners for. Force enhancement of indig capability is Job One. But then again, how does the west win COIN? #1 Never start it and by the Gods, don’t listen to the British.

    There is a reason the west has yet to best a Muslim insurgency since the end of the War to Save Josef Stalin.

    Barry is correct in his assessment; they arrive in country for six months to get their war-face on and kick down doors and murder folks in their homes. That has started to wind-down b/c permission to leave the wire is about zero now.

    Funny, I got in hot water at 1-1 SFG(A) b/c I actually read Barry’s Resister and had copies in my desk at work.

    I’ve actually trained the AFG Commandos and SF Kandaks in the north and the western SOF community does a piss-poor job of FID and simply don’t know UW at all.

    On another point, the conceit of a country like AFG having Special Forces organizations on the western model is foolish at best and dangerously ineffective. SF is a first world luxury, very expensive and the training pipeline is very long. Not that the return in effectiveness of SF on the ground justifies the expense.

    There is zero reason to have any western combat forces in the ME especially while spooning with the wretched and corrupt House of Saud which is ground zero for Wahhabist Salafist Sunni jihadism in the ME.

    But then again, the Army is broken as a warfighter across the board.

    Full disclosure: I am not and have never been a certified meat-eater 18-series like Barry, Mosby or the late and great Hognose, merely an intelligence support MID CDR and S2/SIO at BN.


    Bill Buppert

  11. But they sure look cool doing it.

  12. Saw the video, and from the looks of it, lots of blow in
    place stuff. I think one time they used a bangalore torpedo
    to blow in place. I have a picture around of the time we made
    our own bangalore torpedos by packing two engineer stakes
    with C4 and sandwiching it together with tape.

    Besides that, as it all goes here at home – “When the Cats are
    away, the rats play” So… “Home is where the heart is”

    “Every man to his family and his belongings”

  13. This whole discussion may be summarized by recognizing the devolution of faith, morality, political legitimacy (such as it may ever have been), and civilizational cohesion in the West, esp. America.

    All the symptoms enumerated above result from these… in other words, from the triumph of com/symp/progressive destruction of western culture and values.

    No amount of critique of SoF or restructuring of .Mil will mitigate these problems in the slightest.