Free Speech? Or Acceptable Speech

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31 responses to “Free Speech? Or Acceptable Speech

  1. The video of the Oafkeepers turning into little SS enforcers was priceless.
    @$$clowns on parade.

  2. Confederate miner

    And why am I listening to this woman?

  3. Paraphrasing Pope Leo XIII (well over a hundred years ago and many popes before Him), “If once you accept liberty of speech you have placed truth on the same level with falsehood and you will be swamped in a deluge of lies.” And here we are.

    Are we astonished that Oath Keepers blubbers 1970s Leftist drivel?

    There is no Right Wing in this country. None whatsoever. There is only the Other Left.


    • a follower

      Do you think the popes ever read the Bible? There are ways we are to respond to lies and liars.

  4. wendystringer48088

    Watched the YouTube video. I think she spells it all out pretty well and makes some good points about free speech. We can’t become like the left restricting “hate” speech, and the OathKeepers teling the guy with the Pepe meme signs “son you are leaving here one way or the other” and putting him in a choke hold was hard to watch and is making me rethink my views of them.
    As a solution to the Alt-Lite/Alt-Right division I think that maybe there should be seperate, non-competing Alt-Lite and Alt-Right rallys with a bit of mutual respect and consideration for the other side’s views given.
    Also I think a little common sense goes a long way. I wouldn’t bring a Pepe meme sign or Kekistan flag to a rally where all the other flags were American flags, for instance. And if I was asked to take something down or leave by the
    organizers of the rally or whatever I was at, I would respect them and comply with their wishes.
    But that’s just me.

  5. Why does the Patriot Bowel Movement have Ft. Sumter-holm Syndrome… while at the same time calling everyone else pussies in Europe… and in the USA Bigly?

    Or, is it just that the Patriot Bowel Movement is just strategically and tactically waiting to see the back of their eyes?

  6. What is the point of the alt-lite anyway? One might strongly disagree with the alt-right and Spencer, but at least he has something coherent to say.

    The alt-lite? Flaming homo Milo, self-promoting Cernovich, who likes Asian transexual hookers?

    Some “conservatives” there.

  7. Lauren does a good job with this question.

  8. No speech is truly free from the consequences appertaining thereto.

    Come say ‘it’ to my face… see what happens.

    That’s how it works when assumptions/beliefs/values/heritage become irreconcilable, with extinction as the goal….

  9. Number of medical schools? Number of doctor students? Content of medical school? Content of medical license tests? Government decides. Medical license and education reciprocity with those hellhole no-tech countries like Germany, France, Britain, India, Mexico? Surely you jest.

    If you do the IRS questionnaire about are you a contractor or an employee, who controls your work and how much, you discover that anyone who touches a patient is a government employee.

    There’s nothing unforced about the choices Mr. Broken Arm had. He is not free to treat himself, or organize an alternative. He couldn’t even go to a veterinarian.

  10. The golden handles she’s wearing are a nice touch, and eminently practical.

  11. Virgil Kane

    One man with common sense.

  12. good looking girl.

    wonder what the rest of her looks like?

    and does she know how to make sammiches?

  13. a follower

    Can we support free speech yet teach acceptable speech? Would acceptable behavior follow?

  14. Amateur ruckhumper

    There’s a necessity for a balance. No right to free speech can be totally unrestricted, but harsh censorship isn’t the answer, either. No, your free speech doesn’t cover false accusations of crime, and that’s as it should be.

    That kid in Texas walked into someone else’s party, where his message wasnt welcome, and got thrown out. Is that “censorship”, or a group throwing an unwanted guest who’s being disruptive?

    I’m a Proud Boy. We’re not WN, and we support free speech far enough that on an organizational level, we’re not trying to shut people down. But just because we’re not trying to shut the WN down, that doesn’t mean we want them promoting their message at our events. They’re welcome to attend, but since we’re multi-racial, they’ll need to set that part of their ideology aside and focus on something else for a few hours.

    I have friends who are WN. If they had a rally, I might attend to listen to the speech, but I certainly wouldn’t show up in the Proud Boys uniform, with our black, Jewish, and Hispanic members in tow, trying to spread our message. I might not agree with my friends on everything, but I’m not looking for trouble.

    Criticizing the gov’t should be fine, and legal. I’m furious that we’re still in Syria, when we have no right to be.

    Advocating for Islam or Communism? No. BFYTW. NAMBLA? Fuck you, and here’s a free bullet to make the point.

    Its a balance. This is a war, and peacetime rules don’t apply. At the same time, if people refuse to self-censor in the name if getting along, society will censor them in order to protect cohesion.

    Simply put, don’t be an asshole, know when it’s not the place and time to bring certain issues up, and don’t intrude on someone else’s party.

  15. The sign I saw didn’t say hate speech isn’t free speech, it said “no hate speech” indicating the bearer thought hate speech was wrong but did not specify a remedy.

    If the Oath Keepers have permitted an area for a rally they can probably be held responsible for it and for activities taking place therein. If that is the case then they do have a right to kick out people who are not representative of their cause, the choke holding the guy is certainly excessive. You simply get 6 or 8 guys pick up all this stuff and begin walking him and his stuff out of your area.

  16. Detroit III

    Another pretty gal who won’t breed.

  17. Lot’s of (((actors))) out there these days in movement land. COINTELPRO was real. Gary Webb is still dead. Rabbit holes run deep.–396458/

    If rounds are coming from that direction, those are the bad guys.

  18. true freedom requires tolerance.

    when people are free, Party A will do and say things that are objectionable to Party B. Party B will do and say things that Party A finds objectionable.

    at this point, there are two possible responses: Party A and Party B tolerate the words/actions of the other and let them be, or Party A and Party B do not tolerate the words/actions of the other and attempt to instigate prohibitions against the other group.

    in the first instance immediately above, FREE SPEECH is operative; in the latter instance immediately above, ACCEPTED SPEECH is operative. put another way, in the first instance, true freedom is present; in the latter instance, true freedom is absent.

    it is time to realize that ‘i may not agree with what you say, but will always defend your right to say it’ should become the operative ideation when the idea of ‘free speech’ is in the spotlight. anything less is the absence of true freedom.

    the point must be made that ‘free speech’ does NOT include the ability to harm my person, or my personal property. in fact, those actions violate MY RIGHT TO BE FREE and renders the aggressor a criminal who should be punished accordingly for violating my person and/or my property.

    to come full circle, we arrive at the beginning: true freedom requires tolerance.

  19. Some very good points made here,the presenter is a smart cookie in that tis hard to stand up for free speech you disagree with,that said,must be done.

    I also agree as with many actions free speech has consequences though do not believe violence should be one of them.

  20. Free speech is raucous. It is often impolite. Interrupting assassination porn with the full knowledge that you will be arrested and then the porn will continue is an exercise of free speech. It is not the same thing as hitting someone on the head with a metal object because you don’t like what they are saying. Using violence against someone’s speech is suppression of that speech.

  21. There is no “right” and “left” … they are all variants of Socialism.

    Their ideologies are predicated upon Authoritarianism.

    Not a one of ’em is “protesting for freedom”. They want nothing more than to inflict their own favoured version of Collectivism upon their neighbours.

    That’s why, irrespective of whether the “left” or the “right” has political power, there is never any fundamental change.

  22. The next generation of Freedom Hating Demon Spawn steps up to the plate (the one without the white powder on it):

  23. I’d like to put that alt-whatever bim “in a really interesting position”.

  24. 6.26.2017

    Biblical proportions go lie eth down. What could possibly go right? Wrong? Accessing Random Access Memory. RAM this? Ready for some fire works? Free Speech perhaps? Let me assure you, you don’t have to read it. But, if you do you should think about it, whatever it may be, that is>)”o”(<

    Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands.JC

    Assessment: US are screwed! Why, you may ask? And the short answer is, them can’t read the writing on the wall! The party is over! The Climate has Changed and the Science is settled. WE need a independent counsel to investigate the Gigantic SUCKING sound of party politics. The real story is the dead party walking, both of them. Pick any issue, the joke of healthcare AFFORD ability, the color of education money, CLIMATE Change non-science, 110,000 IRS money changers, not to mention, but I will the revenue disservices of the states, local property tax actors for profit. The Federal Reserve (WTF), the military Industrial COMPLEX of private business contract, the politically connected to the cultured drug addiction PIG Pharma cartels, and an endless list of those alphabet soup of agencies, bureau’s of BS, office of the who the hell cares and cubical of the Authority. What do they all have in common other than diversity of one mindedness with liberal multi banal culturist of It’s not really Butter, spread liberally, thicker than snot, but has a yellow streak, what do all of them have common? The short answer is the paycheck protection programs, elected, infected and injection by the appointed and anointed the infectious disease into the Abilene Paradox. WELL that seemed like a good idea at the time, didn’t it? Which obviously most were not good ideas, however politically expedient them were! Just like PT Barnum said of the sucker born every minute of our well fed gov.

    Them the WITCH HUNT, independently, un-biased, sans the politic, or so them say? Which witch to hunt the only issue of skeletons in the closet, fly's on the wall all with recording devices and data collection services the only question is which witch is more expedient in the great deceptions? Again the question is which witch to burn at the stake? Obviously, for the sake of the American people’s viewing pleasures of witch hunting, the thrill of the adventure, the agony of defeated elite snobs, cry foul. For all the world is staged, parts played and the stake is just a prop, when the curtain calls. Never mind the man behind the curtain with the gun. Witches are the villain in the Greatest show on earth’s circus. That is to say, clowns to the left and joker to the right and I AM stuck in the middle with you! The witch is obviously being complicit and the most popular vocabulary word of the day, collusion which are the STATES! To hell with investigating the Russians, investigate the UN-Americans!!!!!!! The witch’s brew is the state of the states exchange rates and cash flow. CASH COWED out! Milk money is the education, as it were, is what it is all about. It is that simple. Government has become the Golden goose that laid the Golden goose eggs. That meaning ZERO’S all 12 + of them in a shit storm of DEBT! Funny money with funding. Not so obvious to all are the prune faces if you ask any of them,”where did the money go?” And would it not be prudent to have some idea of exactly where and what was appropriated and for what purpose were those funds, funded? Yet them are clueless, them don’t know? However, I do know a lot of people and business that know exactly where their money goes and why and where every last RED CENT was spent. But Government is above all that, isn’t it? Why, because it is way to easy to spend other peoples money. that is why!

    Shall we discuss the USURY? Assume the national debt is 20 trillion, UN funded and off books another 200 + trillion with T is fourteen zeros and even if Da FED set interest rates in the negative the issue in either direction is the definition of the word US-ury, which is the witch to hunt to with hunt dogs. The illegal action or practice of lending money at unreasonably high rates of interest. At any rate, the interest rate on the debt is only 266 billion per year, so far according to thebalance dot com is 14.7 trillion The public debt is $14.7 trillion. That's debt owed to individuals, businesses, and foreign central banks. Most (95 percent) is Treasury bills, notes, and bonds. The remaining 4 percent are TIPS, Savings Bonds, and other securities. SEC, securities and exchange the pick pocket of INTEREST on the BET, or perhaps DEBT? You see, it is all in the calculations, don’t you see, or most appropriation should say you don’t see, said the blind man. Usury is the giant sucking sound of the political hands, both parties in the national cookie jar of government living well FED beyond its means. Meaning you pay the INTEREST on their DEBT! TAX that!

    The money cleaning machine with lots of detergent to mask the collusion of any sort of suspicious activities is of course we all pay taxes, don’t we? The short answer is NOPE! In the business, the tax is paid by consumer for the product and or services, business pays no tax, it is tacked on to the product and of service. So, the other day one of the advocates of the replacement society of UN-American activates, made the statement of the illegals of the invasive specie's pay taxes too. WELL, that is not exactly true and I think he knows it but, build the backfire anyways. Truth of the matter is, they pay no tax at all from the hand out, because where did the handout come from, TAX? What he really said without knowing it is, churning tax money. Bleached and white washed in the spin cycle. Money laundering by any other terms of endearments is still illegal! Yet government does it every second of every day and all 356 days of the year spinning with circularity. Now we have funny tax money in the mix. The dirty money laundering secret is tax is taxed, I mean except if them quality for the EARNED INCOME CREDIT on the low end life and Business TAX credit on the upper end of the US-ury fed well. GEE HAD man, you been had! And of course been used like a dirty rag and thrown away is the middle classlessness of clowns and jokers that I call them..

    The US-ury id of course the Da FED, or as I like to call them, them rats of interest rates. A tax be on you for everything you do pay to pay and pay and squeeze every last RED CENT out of you that buy the products and service of the RENT SEEKERS. RENT a life in goo old USA US-ury, the United States of IN debtedness . Well of course them pay to play with your money. Rent seekers, Rent-seeking is the use of the resources of a company, an organization or an individual to obtain economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits to society through wealth creation. An example of rent-seeking is when a company lobbies the government for loan subsidies, grants or tariff protection. Tanks to investopedia for dat. That pretty much sums up the dirty little secret of which we call GOVERNMENT.

    I may have said this before but here it is again, It’s the Government, Stupid! Not that you are stupid by any means justifying the ends, it’s just that you need to identify the root cause of you implied consent, and of course the consent of the governed. So my question is, did you consent? I think not, however, by not consenting you did, ya know?

    Second gear, shifted to a seemingly change of subject but perhaps not.

    Assume the position and of curse give me 50, pushups. Don’t know if they still do it but, it was down the overhead bars or you don’t get breakfast, proceeded by the mess sergeant with buttered fingers went down and back on the over head bars before you eat, boot camp, Fort Campbell KY 1971, big mean looking (smiling white teeth and jacket) black guy in chief chef staff Sergeant clothed all white greased the bars and remember to wash your fingers. On more than one occasion the entire company marched over the top of me while I was doing 25, usually for not paying attention, usually a distraction that they, meaning the DI was not attentive to a got cha. I was not the only one, and I could do pots and pans pretty well too, KP was extracurricular activities, I had practice, a lot of practice, because mostly they were smarter then me, or so them say of my smart assness! I did not get my Marksmanship badge out of boot camp, mainly because the targets had holes about the size of a mans head at 600 yards in the mans head and I shot through the mans head which did not knock down the target, silly me, I thought the object of the game was to take them out, not knock them down for points. That pissed me off, a lot, because some did dirt shots and the dirt knocked the target down. Life lesson, it ain’t about dirt shots, it is about taking them out, head shot! Some got badges, I didn’t. However, I think it was before Mel Brook Blazing Saddle, where we don’t need no stinking badges, badges. Long story shot (short) E-4 in three months, two strips (Corporal) in three months. Why, because I could read and write and do the math and and and take no shit from any rank, YES SIR that is a fine idea! And of course walk my post from flank to flank and take no shit from any rank. And I could do a spit shine boots better than most. in other words I had my shit together! Most often. But that was then. Then now being a long time ago for which I played the game. Game ain’t over yet!

    That is where I learned if you walk around with a clip board and act like you are doing something, they pretty much leave you alone and so it was for my two years, eleven month, and 29 days wearing the green and marching machine. Which left me just shy of a good conduct and a rain coat, both three years to get. However, an interesting fact, most of the DI’s upper NCO’s been there done that! So, you could tell if they said something it was worth listening, other then the BS, which was fun, unlike the officers that had not been there and done that. Especially at the end of the day, when training was over and the real training began, real life experiences over a beer, told by someone that been there and done that. That was the real training most did not get… Never got a chance to use any of that, yet I remember the guy in a body cast, and the guy in the hospital bed and the guy that left something there, because he had been there and done that. That is me, and we don’t need no stinking badges! I come from a time when men were men and everyone knew the friend that did not make it. Time was?

    Obviously I AM nobody and I know No thing. I know nothing, or perhaps I do? Ya never know, ya know? I envy the guy that can take a two thousand yard shot and hit consistently. I AM not that guy, I AM happy to be consistent at one hundred yard, yea me! Even closer is better for failing eyes. Recently saw a question on what would be the replacement for the LIBERATOR. cheap and easy. My suggestion is the M-3 grease gun, in the ever popular .45 ACP, however could be 9mm. Yes, spit lead is just the ticket, rapidly. Ugly as sin, made of tin, will you merry me? Happy relationship. Me and a machine gun. And you could put an muffler on it, too, shhhhhhh… A couple of tubes and a bolt, couple a springs, a magazine, What more do you need, I mean other than ammo? I am pretty sure a good machine shop could whip one out in about an hour if needed. I could be wrong, however ya never really know do ya? CNC?

    Some time back, during WWII gun control was an issue in France so the US air dropped in some inexpensive arms to the resistance. One of these was the FP-45 Liberator which was suppose to be cheap to produce which was about two dollars a copy. Stamped sheet metal and a tube nicknamed the Woolworths pistol. Along those same lines, if a person or group were of a mind to produce something cheap, or perhaps inexpensive but a bit more effective than the Liberator, the replacement for the Thompson sub-machine gun comes to mind the M-3 Grease gun, not very pretty, however cheap and effective to produce. Certainly the ATF$E would not approve. But then in times like that who need stinking badges anyway? It is simple design with few moving parts, a couple of springs and a couple of tubes and a little machining and welding, bang bang bang. Anyone with a little know how and machine shop could do it. Fact of the matter is the popular ar 15 bolt, barrel and trigger could be adapted to a metal tube and redesign barrel nut could be conceived. With gas piston system with a little engineering to give it a locked bolt and selective fire. The only suggestion I might add would to design in the system a suppressor, built in the gas system. Don’t see the need for such a thing right now, but then neither did the French, Chinese, several South American countries and those of Africa, I suppose, not even considering the middle east conflicts. The issue is planning for the future which none of them did, until it was too late, that is. Carl Gustav has nothing on good old American engine new it “T”. Model “T”. Ford them all! Ann, struggle of Atlas. Or, was that Animal Farm, by George, or well, maybe perhaps FA Hay Yak? Mises Perhaps Missed? Perhaps Murray Roth Bard? O Avon, me thinks, suffer surfer dude. shoot the tube. wave on! I imagine, perhaps I imagine too much?

    Trees. Joyce Kilmer. How poetic? Think photosynthesis here, perhaps water.

    “I think that I shall never see
    A poem lovely as a tree.

    A tree whose hungry mouth is pressed
    Against the earth's sweet flowing breast;

    A tree that looks at God all day
    And lifts her leafy arms to pray;

    A tree that may in summer wear
    A nest of robins in her hair;

    Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
    Who intimately lives with rain.

    Poems are made by fools like me,
    But only God can make a tree.”
    That was my wife's favor rite, or perhaps something about a purple dress? One never knows for sure. ya know? Embroidered on a small pillow by her Grandmother, I think I sill have it, or perhaps not? Yet I remember. Mine? Swing low sweet sword of Damn a Cleves, shallow, Jeff Copper? Pick up a rifle and you change instantly from a subject to a citizen.

    We shall not discuss WATER, or perhaps we will, ya never know, ya know? Davidoff Cool Water for Him. The essence of the ocean for the man that forges his manhood in the heat of action. Intense freshness. Stinks, I think not, I like it. Because, as you may have guessed, that’s r= the the way I like it , ah ha, ah ha. Perhaps night sights two?

    But before we get to that, that, that may be, meaning water, shall we discuss righty tighty? Da math is pretty simple. Rocket science is not involved, yet heartstring and purse strings will be pulled every which way but loose money collectors.

    Every state must secede from the Union, which is the United States of America if it is to survive as a nation. While that may seem like a contradiction it is not. What it is, is to divorce from the reality of institutionalized Government. Let US call that separation of church of state (da FED) and state or the separation of the congregation from the church… of the states religion. The National church and religion of money. Please explain to me why it is necessary to have both a Treasury and Federal Reserve. Monetary Policy perhaps? And the follow up question is, just exactly how is that working out, I mean is reference to the Lie Ability, ineptness of debt and just exactly who is reaping the RENT, or should I say raping the entire nation with the notion of interest? The last part is of most interest rats are the rent seekers. Don’t believe me, check and see if your WF account is fee free? WF obviously missing the T, as in WTF? So, them can debate all the pet projects and programs all them the problem is who participates in the programs and projects? And of course why them Participate. The short answer is money, a pay check.

    The big idea is fairly simple, stop the money churning which is the witch hunted and found of all evils, has you may know Treasury Bills, US-ury to our indebtedness Rent seekers, da well fed gov… A simple adjustment in accounting practice to stop the IRS. Let’s call that the paperwork reduction and of course deduction from the IRS of individual tax collection and of course all interstate commerce aside of the commerce clause, meaning, what happens within the state stays within the state. For example a simple law passed by the state and or states. And because it is not interstate commerce it has nothing to do with the FED gov. No direct tax on any individual income except by the state! That was pretty simple, was it not? The result is the IRS only collects tax from the state, or 50 tax returns. That would mean the first step is of course secession. Think of the possibilities of ending all the fun with funding? Then the witch becomes more manageable, you see? So, my question is how many IRS employees does it take to do 50 tax returns? I believe it would be less than 110,000, I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. And to ease the burden on the Well FED Gov. the state would pay the wages and benefits of all the FED gov. employees representing that state. Hmmmmmmm, wouldn’t that be fun? Maybe I imagine too much. Just maybe that would stop the well fed gov. of Fxxxing up everything it touches, maybe? However, not good for HR Block.

    The next item is even more fun with funds. Death to the National party of the politics that piss me off. No state money in local elections and no national money in state elections and all candy dates have to submit to a drug test, a personality profile, psychological evaluation and proof of residence to include Judges and not be a party to any political party! Wouldn’t that be fun?

    So, here is to your hope and change, what it was really all about, trillions of dollars. Perhaps we should investigate the investigators?

    Happy 4th of July and of course bomb away.



    More on the components of water, elementary my dear Watson. Told ya we would get to that which that is water.

    My apologies for my recent rant on your site )unsaid(. It may seem incoherent and painful to read as some have suggested, even arrogant to comment at length. I admit. But nothing says junk science more then Climate Change as promoted by our previous potus and most all government agencies, presumably to protect their paychecks the reason they don’t speak out. I would offer the VA as another example of the failure of the administrative state, among others like education. There is no question among scientist that the climate does change. However, the idea it is settled science is dead wrong on it being man made because if it did, scientists have some explaining to do about several ice ages when the population was a fraction of what it is today and was not industrialized. Yet we have the settled science. That should have been a wake up call for an FBI investigation on why the polar ice caps melt periodically. I say that somewhat humorously. Then to blame natural occurring gas such as CO-2 for the greenhouse effect, it is because of that green house we live. You see in your area of expertise you know certain things, I am sure and you also know certain things that are better left unsaid, I am sure of that too. With the exception of your web site the un said and congratulations to you for pointing out some of the deceptions. Then, just exactly where in the US Constitution is the FBI authorized? Or, any other of the alphabet soup of agencies of the administrative state?

    Bare with me now, it ain’t all bad. Back 2015 I read an article on the FBI wanting a new sidearm, one of the specifications was night sights. Tritium is the stuff that glows in the dark used in night sights, watches and is a hydrogen (component of water, H2O) isotope H-3 and is radioactive to a small degree. It was discovered in 1934 by three physicists. While small amounts are natural occurring it is also produced by nuclear weapon explosion and by nuclear reactors controlled. In other words, scientist did not know about it until 1934. But are now uses in boosted fission nuclear weapons. Gases of deuterium and tritium greatly increase the efficiency of the device. Billy Clinton said that civilian facilities cannot produce tritium for military purposes, why is that? Yet Mrs C sold out the country of 20 % of uranium reserves to the Russians, why is that? And as I had Gee Had read, it would not take much to gather up a bunch of watches and night sights to do what? Glow in the dark? Or exponentially increase the blast radius?

    It is my hope you do not think that I an some sort of mad conspiracy theorist. You see, I spent most of my life, go along to get along like most everyone else, not so much anymore. Because what is going on, is beyond belief and few will say anything for fear of being called a racist bigot and perhaps loss of paycheck and or life. Now, what does Global Climate Change have to do with the FBI and junk science? More than any are willing to admit, or even investigate, just don’t know the truth, perhaps better left unsaid. It is the force of Federal law, FBI which is similar EPA, FDA, and so many others that enforce the law administratively, yet they have the imaginary guns to the head of the general population. Why? What a country? It is more than just party politics, isn’t it? Collusion and complicit of the body politic with Glow Billity, isn’t it? That’s why raving rage of the lunatic left and of course who is complicit on the right,that they will be found out. Will it be war? If it is, make damn sure to identify the real enemy and exit strategy, then RoE, there are none. All is fair in love and war and this certainly ain’t love, or perhaps it is?


    • All those harmless electrons killed, and for what?
      Just to see your Unabomber manifesto on the screen??

      • he exceeds even Aesop in sheer loquaciousness. More paste than electrons though.

      • a follower

        Kiss? Whatever happened to keep it simple stupid? Not many will read a manifesto as Asepo called it. Harmless electrons, chuckle.