Not necessarily easy.

6 responses to “IFF

  1. Had this been understood by so-called “patriots” during the Mahleur thing, the damn war might’ve been over by now.

    • Uh…how, exactly do you get that?

      I am going over it in my head…the IFF thing. Just who was F and who was F? I’m thinking here and from some distance removed, the F/F equation would not have been possible for anyone in that situation to determine, certainly not at that time, and absent a whole lot of work on the part of essentially non-participants, post occupation, murder, arrest and trials, some Foes have been identified, but the Friends part of the equation remains elusive.

      The jury, for instance, in Group I trial turned out to be a fairly friendly crowd, while the jury for the Group II trial proved a tad more malleable to the government’s narrative.

      Some patriot groups made an appearance on the ground to, up close and personal, shove the knife in, while other patriot groups did so from a safe distance, mostly using alt media proxies. As an aside, I hope we in this group have resolved to never again allow that situation to stand, unchallenged.


      The alternative media certainly did not identify as Friend, in any manner timely enough to have aided in the conversation, explanation, or direction. Most alt media talking heads did not have a clue what the issue(s) were, and are…and as a result, in this case certainly, did not have the qualifications necessary to render an opinion, independent of third party musings, of the action. I do ponder the possibility that many who could have been of some assistance conferred gravitas upon low information alternative media personalities, who had rather hastily, and without additional research and/or
      independent confirmation, conferred gravitas upon high maintenance Patriot Personalities for direction in narrative, and as a result, quality advice and effective assistance was denied to a core of principled, sincere, outraged, gutsy, inexperienced men and women, whose short term association with the “PATRIOT” brand could have in no way prepared them for the ego driven, principles challenged, drought of discernment so prevalent in persons who while capable of quoting Jefferson and Adams, were provably
      devoid of the character required to actually emulate same. So, does that make those who allowed the narrative to dictate, friend or foe? From here, I think neither, really. (Note to Fellow Travelers Here, and Wherever Else We May Find Them: Do not allow alternative media comfort upon the alters from
      which legacy media has been unceremoniously dumped.)

      I do not understand your assertion. Might you elucidate?

      • I was referring to at the time, not the post-op. Good people finally stood and “patriots” treated them like punching bags…because they didn’t stand the way they wanted. I’ve got plenty more if the thread”s opem later, but that’s the gist of it.

        Just look around since—“You’ll do things the right way or we’ll kill you.” The irony is that anyone thinks it’s a drop different in principle from the commie-libs. Well it isn’t and that’s the fact of the matter, no matter what fantasies anyone dreams up.

  2. The Hells Angels have a very old saying. Three can keep a secret, if two are dead. Words to heed. To think you can occupy a federal resource and their not be snitches implanted is a given. The real question is how many!

    Gump, got it right. stupid is, as stupid does.


    • Yeah well, I care about the liberty of the stupid as well as the smart. That’s because I understandon’t liberty. Your career choice might”ve blinded you to that. OTOH it’s never too late.

      Not being stupid, I’ve always figued a 20% infiltration rate for ANY group…in the absence of any direct evidence of course.

      If the thread stays open, I’ll have a much fuller response for Icen when I get to a real keyboard.

  3. Iceni26AD your analysis is fine, keen even. Probably you’re underestimating the simpleton I am (very common) and especially the broad principle of which I speak, also very common. And yes, you make a great point that many “patriots” did indeed stand–morally and physically–with that crew. So mea culpa for over-generalizing; there’s nothing but individuals out there after all.

    The fact is that the majority of so-called patriots came right out of the box to decry all the mistakes they were making. Or worse, why they were wrong on the issue itself.

    The point I was making was quite a bit broader—that some individuals decided to ACTUALLY, like in reality, stand against the Leviathan and a high percentage of what’s known as FREEFOR basically said, “No, you shouldn’t do that.” And then got so tied up in trying to “prove” why, that the basic nature of the action was overlooked. And let’s not minimize that it WAS action, in opposition to nearly everything in the so-called “freedom movement” theretofore. That part of my position is important…big difference between talking and doing.

    Also, let’s remember context. The opening battle of this war was the Cliven Bundy standoff and that ended–at least that one battle–as a total victory for FREEFOR, without so much as a shot fired. Complete surrender…not forever maybe, but then and there yes. This was followed closely by Eric Cantor–chief mouth of the chief looters–being resoundingly put out of his job. Not a minor incident IMO, foreshadowing the Trump phenomenon.

    IOW momentum was strongly in favor of the Good Guys. Please understand…I’m not saying anyone should have done anything for the Ammon Bundy crew. People have to pick their spots carefully and there may be a zillion reasons that wasn’t the spot to pick. But to stand AGAINST them–and plenty of “patriots” did and still do–well, that’s just a little more than I can stomach silently. To me, it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what liberty IS.

    THEY picked THEIR spot and went with it. It’s THAT action which deserves support, no matter if it’s someone else’s spot or not. THIS is the nature of liberty…who the hell owns you and by extension, who the hell owns them?


    So that’s the general principle. Meanwhile you can take a glance around here and see the many instances. Apparently the strategy has changed from, “I seek to have long-established principles of American liberty prevail again,” to, “I want to see everyone do the right thing.” Ho-hum, just like the commie-libs.

    This was the point of the IFF post and notice the phrase “(potential) friend.” The Ammon Bundy crew plainly qualified–they concluded how they sought to change what they didn’t like, and all the naysayers qualify under the “foe” attribute—they were busy yapping how the others should’ve done it, the “right” way to do it, the principles “we all” must share. It’s a crock of shit, and perfectly opposed to the individual freedom–and yes tolerance–that was the hallmark of American liberty and individualism.

    See, my values happen to closely align with many of those here. Except for one—I recognize that this doesn’t matter at all in any SOCIAL context. In THAT context, only one thing counts…do you intend to force it upon others, or do you intend to deal consensually with others? Period…there’s nothing else to it. One chooses the NAP or one chooses rulers and ruled. It’s an either-or and the reason it’s going to be different this time is because regular folk are beginning to understand the choice and that those who do choose/promise the NAP are going to have to defend the choice. Physically. Strongly.

    That’s never happened in all of history and it’s why the beloved(!) tfA-t is right about one thing. All the commenters here who are busy telling everyone else what to do and how it’s gonna be…are in truth nothing but a bunch of losers. Talkers, not doers. Collectivists, not individualists. Wannabe thugs, not capitalists.

    IMO that’s why they failed to see Mahleur for what it could’ve been…a giant and important win. It’s fine to disagree with that, but it’s not fine to stand against courageous self-motivated Americans who actually have the balls to try and straighten out what they can…at least what’s important to them in their own lives.

    Wish I had the time to make it clearer because it’s VERY important. But i don’t presently. Hope it helps to clarify at least a bit.