Open Thread: Body Armor

Assume Joe Normie just twigged to the Red takeover of FUSA.

What body armor and carrier should he get and why?

Specfics and links on model, vendors, and prices help greatly.

Start by scanning this thread.

Thanks in advance.

56 responses to “Open Thread: Body Armor

  1. Gag. IRA style resistance doesnt need BDA

    You’re doing it wrong if you need it.

    Speed is life.

    • Not only speed and agility, but the ability to rapidly ninja through holes in walls, culverts, over walls etc. Be like a lizard that can disappear in a flash. Once suited up like Robocop, you will tend to become a big, slow target, unable to vanish into the darkness or the weeds. Not to mention being able to go from combatant to civilian around the corner past the alley. IRA is an apt comparison.

    • Jimmy the Saint

      “IRA style resistance doesnt need BDA”

      We respectfully disagree.
      – 7 IRA dead at Loughgall
      3 IRA dead at Gibraltar

  2. It assumes facts not evidence, it would be logical that the state would ban armor same time they ban guns,

  3. Many will not agree with this, but here goes.
    Hard rifle plates make total sense for combat soldiers. They have made a deal with their superiors that they will attack fortified targets with a high likelihood of being shot, but in return, their superiors will provide the very best trauma care possible, including battalion aid stations just behind the fight. The soldier’s hard plate will stop many of the instant death shots to the central chest. Wounds from shots taken outside the hard plate will probably be resolved with the expected medical care, including medevac choppers etc.

    But for John Q Citizen, a shot one-inch outside the hard plate is going to be just as fatal as a shot to the heart or spine. For JQC, there will be no medevac, no trauma team, no surgical fix. He’ll just die a bit more slowly than if he’s shot in the heart. His family will then be left without their primary defender.

    So to the extent that a hard plate makes the family defender feel like Robocop, they are not a big help for everyday wear. If you have time to get them on in a defensive fight to save your homestead, sure, why not. But to wear them on a daily basis down to the local black market? Not if they make you feel bulletproof. You should act like a ninja shadow warrior, not the Terminator, Mr. BulletProof. You hard plate might be, but the other 90% of you is not, and any bullet wounds are likely to prove fatal without the combat soldier’s waiting medical backup.

    Keeping the mindset that any bullet is probably going to be fatal is going to be better protection than walking down the street with the hard rifle plates. The sniper you don’t see won’t mind shooting you in the head or the hip. Your goal should be to remain unseen, or appear nonthreatening and not even worth a bullet.

    • Thanks, Matt. A smart NYPD detective taught me that he changed from always-carry to seldom-carry once he became a PI for similar reasons.

      YMMV.

      • I’m for carrying concealed at all times in these normal times. My comments about the downside of hard rifle plate body armor were mainly tuned to the presence or lack of expected medical attention. Post SHTF, nothing past your own battlefield blow-out kit can be expected. Any high-velocity rifle bullet wound is going to do terrible damage, and will often prove fatal.

        • Johnny Paratrooper

          Whether or not you have armor, you still may be shot.
          Regardless, consider the following.

          Not too sound excessively optimistic, but, several of my neighbors are MD and Nurses. Including those of all my friends in my vicinity, they have several doctors in their neighborhoods. (With families, so they are probably not going anywhere when the SHTF)

          I understand that this is obviously not the same as having an experienced combat surgeon with a fully equipped operating room, staff, hospital… etc

          But this is better than having nothing.

          Likewise, I may not have air support or indirect fire, which obviously reduces my potential effectiveness, but I still have years of small unit tactics, range time, and a rifle.

          But most important I have the experience. Which is infinitely invaluable.

          Also, treating your wounds is important, but treating the wounds of your enemy is also equally important. You can gain major “Karma Points” with your group and surrounding locals in your area by not having a ruthless record for the treatment of non-local and local hostile persons.

          Look at the infamous Simon Bolivar. He was well on his way to becoming the next George Washington in South America. But his treatment of his enemies was his inevitable end. His reputation is earned, and his end was the fate of all ruthless men, no matter how great, honest, and just they may be.

          George Washington was right. His use of Chivalry and Civilized Warfare was his greatest asset. He never terrorized civilians or soldiers. No mass rapes, or mass murders tarnish his record. With the exception of some French and Indian Warfare exaggerations. Which most assume are exaggerations. They may be true, but Washington was never hunted down for those alleged crimes. So I doubt it. Back then, people liked to hunt down bad guys. You could rank up very fast.

          Consider the following,
          I don’t have the time or energy to manage and watch prisoners or wounded(including myself if I am hit). Yet, executing them or ignoring the results of my actions would scare the living fuck out of every one of my neighbors. Acting human, makes me look like a man who accepts the situation as it is, and then tries to simultaneously fix it. To the best of my ability.

          They however, would have to step up to the plate. Which they are heavily experienced with after working in any hospital in the DC Baltimore Area. Baltimore is full of GSW victims. Most MDs spend several years working at a city hospital full of the “Big 5” (Car Crashes, GSW, Stab Wounds, Mental Health, and Substance Abuse)

          Medical Treatment goes a long way in the third world. Nobody shoots at the doctors(Mostly). When America turns into the third world, whoever purchased medical supplies, and knows how to use them, will be an instantly wealthy and wanted person to have around.

          That’s “Bullet Proof Armor” right there…

          I plan on establishing a FOB type scenario in my area by digging in and leading well. Unofficially of course. I will lead by example, not force.

          I am uniquely surrounded by Arabian Horses, Doctors, Farms, Rednecks, and ranches. I am 100% certain things will all fall into place. Everyone in my area has a 100-110 IQ. The white collars are all accountants and doctors, mostly white, and most important, they are friendly “Americans”.

          I also enjoy having my Indian Neighbors, my Iranian “Anti-Islamic” neighbors who are basically christians, the WASPs and the Japanese family across the street.

          They are well dressed, polite, and clearly work very, very hard.

          They obviously love their families very much.
          I feel good about this. I may say a lot of negative things, but am optimistic we will win.

          Americans ALWAYS win. Eventually.

          This civil war will be the West’s greatest achievement.

          It will be like WW1 in reverse.

        • Yours is an enormously myopic and illogical perspective.

          Firstly, not every wound is now or ever will be centerfire rifle.

          Secondly, because some people may “feel like Robocop” is not a rational reason to eschew armor—illogic akin to banning guns because some maniacs misuse guns.

          The solution to “feeling like Robocop” is… training, not cringing in a hidey hole or running around like a naked crazed triathelete.

    • Sage advice from Mr. Bracken.

    • Centurion_Cornelius

      Roger dat, Matt and CA!

      Plus–the biggest PITA I see are those that ORDER steel plate get told one thing during ordering, and then sweat out a +months long wait waay beyond the ETA published online for actual ARRIVAL, whilst the plastic gets dinged from the get-go. Emails, calls, and curses seeking info all seem to go unanswered once plates are bought and paid for but undelivered.

      YMMV

    • Medical and conceptual rubbish!

      The care and outcome of “a shot one-inch outside the hard plate” depends on the location and character of the wound at least as much as it depends upon the level of available care.

      In my career I have personally cared for four walking/talking patients who have been shot in the head, observed, and discharged without need for further care and without any sequellae.

      That a patient may be “shot one-inch outside the hard plate” with .308 soft point or a subsonic .22LR with entirely different outcomes IN NO WAY REDUCES THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE PLATES FOR THE AREA PROTECTED.

      • Getting shot.
        It doesn’t hurt that much…at first.
        Small calibers many times enter with no exit. They ricochet and bounce around,fragmenting inside the body tearing up shit. Shrapnel is the fucking worst. I have pieces of metal that will be mine until I die. Being a large,slow-moving target has never been a solid modus operandi. Distance,stealth,concealment,cover, training,good intel and comms is key to survival. Armour is false courage. I am a fan of kevlar gloves and liners.
        Fortifications of steel,earth and sandbags work well with a proven exit strategy. I have my well worn TM 5-227 technical manual sitting on my desk. June 1966.
        Rule #1 Don’t get shot.
        Rule#2 Shoot the motherfuckers and leave the area.
        “All warfare is based on deception.” Sun Tzu

    • Your post makes perfect sense.

    • SemperFi, 0321

      Agree with Matt.
      The weight of steel plates is incredible, and for anyone that’s worn a set, unless you take a full frontal or rear shot, it will hit you anyway. Side and angle coverage is nil. That’s a lot of weight to pack for what little protection they offer. Putting a full level III soft vest on underneath adds to the weight and still won’t offer protection from rifle fire, so the whole vest thing is becoming moot.
      So you can do like grampa did, wear your shirt as armor, or armor up and not move far.
      And mission also dictates equipment use.

    • Good point

    • Tagged for discussion/learning. Tend to agree with Mr. Bracken on this one. Am at literal oz.=lbs.=pain stage of life and will trade these things for mobility & lower-profile. I suspect everyone must take their own inventory on that subject, and will be “swimming” in a different body of water from someone else’s environs. If they look hard in the mirror first, good for them. I have “stuff” (.mil & otherwise) but may swim better with a modified fly-fishing vest or non-threatening Indigenous (to my area) ruck, and completely avoid the circumstance where I wish I had a Fwd Surgical Tm 10 minutes away by the chopper I don’t have.

    • Matt,
      Enjoyed reading you on Twitter until your ouster. Do you have a daily publication anything?
      Thanks for all you do.

  4. I agree with bracken. I live in a rural area that has lots of mountains. any shots i may have to take in some sort of partisan situation are going to be at least 100yds from the cover of heavy foliage (Pines, mountain laurel and tress etc). Fire a shot and run. Armor will just slow you down. I do have a surplus PASGT but its mostly for protection from tree branches.

    I am planning to get some rifle plates for home defense situations and to get them before a possible ban.

  5. hard plates are a plus for traveling in vehicles and it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have them- i do. concealable soft armor(like the cops have) makes sense, level IIIA with stab rating will be good to have- i do. i also have a IIIA T-shirt… worn with a windbreaker you’ll never know the diff… i own this one.

    invest about a $1000. and you have what you willnedd for any situation…

  6. Johnny Paratrooper

    Plate Carriers make sense if you are in shape. And the obvious Soldier bulk doesn’t give you away. Like if you are living in the middle of nowhere surrounded by like minded people.

    I cannot wear a plate carrier and walk around Baltimore City. Obviously I will be exterminated by local PD immediately.

    However, a quality second chance soft vest is probably better money spent for anyone really.

    In Baghdad we used bullets to stop bullets.

    Vests are mostly just for that “What-if-Maybe”

    It doesn’t matter what you are wearing when I aim my Match .308 at your dick.

    And it certainly doesn’t matter when I mag dump 30 rounds of AK or AR ammo in your direction.

    To be honest, Half of my troopers literally took their plates out in Baghdad.

    Its kind of a false god.

    • lastmanstanding

      Since I couldn’t respond back to you on the video game link. Here goes.

      I have tried to GIVE my business to several young men. I’m not going to reveal anything more other than to say that learning it was a 5 year paid commitment (with profit sharing if I am impressed with abilities) and that financial compensation was more than adequate for this area…and by GIVE meant FREE…with fulfillment of our agreement.

      You know what the response was…”5 years, I can’t make that kind of commitment.” We’re talking about a biz that I have spent decades building with a virtually recession proof clientele.

      So JP, here’s my offer. You get here at your expense and I’ll cover you on this end. You can stay in my home. I’ll feed you. You can check my shit. You can check the area. You can check the ladies. I’ll introduce you and show you around. You can check other job ops. Who knows where it will end up. I don’t have a crystal ball. I want to help you if I can.

      This is a small town, were we live…about 5k. A larger city an hour a way. Opportunity is great if you have ambition. Want more info, let me know or CA, please give him my email.

      It is the best that I can offer brother. Ball’s in your court.

  7. Old Gray Wolf

    I have a set of plates and a carrier. Israeli polyethylene III+. Light and good enough for most stuff cops or turds(I sometimes repeat myself) will be using. Chances are, I will never use them unless the threat is inside my house, or I am inside theirs. It is no panacea, as Bracken notes. But it is light and if it stops one round that was dead center, it paid for itself. Chances are, if I need the plate, whoever is on the other end of the two way range will suffer degraded performance due to a hail of incoming, some of which connect. If they get off some rounds, chances are good that the bees may sting places other than center mass. Life’s a bitch.

    For any kind of offensive action other than a straight up raid(not my first choice of tactic, maybe even dead last), there will be no fair fight, and thus little need of rifle plates. A vest, maybe. No plates are needed to blast a load of 4 buck from a sawed off through some deserving tyrant as he exits his car three feet from the bushes you fire from. Nor for the unsuspecting turd that gets half a mag from your pistol in the back at contact distance. Plates are, as already stated, for when you are barging into a frontal fight with people who are armed and likely to fight back. Not what a smart guerrila/terrorist/freedom fighter does if it can be helped. We are gonna lose a lot of people who think the fight is gonna be like their experience in Nam or the sandbox, if this thing ever kicks off. People oughta be studying the IRA, Bosnia, the French Resistance, and the Warsaw Ghetto, among others. It might change their training regimen and equipment selection some…

    • Agree on all points. A key factor will also be the ability to melt back into the population around the corner from offing some deserving tard. You can’t do that suited up with armor. You can if all you need to do is tuck a pistol into your belt, or drop it into a passing friend’s open bag, etc. Think Northern Ireland, not Baghdad.

  8. How do you “run” body armor? I had to run in Korean War era body armor during boot camp.

  9. Interesting. I bought and paid for my own level III armor every two years as a cop. They issued armor, junk pure and simple. I aquired many sets over the years. My last two vest sit by our bed, my wife as the newest set, mines a bit older. Keeping your gear in a cool dry place out of sunlight is a good thing.

    12 years ago I started to buy two sets of ceramic plates every year. My children their spouses have sets.

    I’ve got ar 500 plates, in cheap plate carriers for ” guests” I don’t care for the ar500 plates, I worry about spall ? Turning one round into a lot of smaller chunks of flying metal.

    I rarely carry anymore, I don’t want the heat. If it’s dicey, I just don’t go. When I do carry the pistols is to get me out of the shit, not get into a blazing gunfight
    When I carry I carry two spare reloads, gives me a total of 18 rounds to unass the event.

    I carry a million dollar liability policy Via Mutual liberty. You shoot someone your gonna need every penny of that million.

    Dirk

  10. 100% absolutely correct.

    • Hi Dan!!!! Nice to see you’re still alive. Any more chapters for “The Patrol” coming soon?

  11. Look at DFNDR’s offerings in either level 3+ (dyneema) or 4 (ceramic). Yeah they’re expensive, but they’re light enough that you can move almost completely unhindered, which is arguably more important. For overt carriers I like the crye jpc.

    Mind I’m no gunfighter/I’m just a dumb-ass civilian but I have rucked many miles and shot competitions wearing “lightweight” 3+ AR500. Its too fucking heavy. For what its worth, I’m in fantastic shape and am young. Nevertheless that shit slows you down, increases fatigue, affects decision-making.

    Something else to think about in the armor conversation is that you should always be looking for cover anyway. Cover provides better protection and you don’t have to hump it around with you. And if you can’t look for cover I’d surmise you’re fucked anyway. Better to become as low profile as possible, get really, really, really good with a concealed handgun for personal defense (USPSA A-class or better), and if you’re interested in extra-curriculars, learn how to hit small things at very, very long distances with rifles.

    I’m looking for good concealable (like, actually concealable) soft armor. The crye LVS doesn’t do it – little protrusions to the rear of the shoulders give the vest away even through a sweater. If anybody has any recs I’m all ears, would be grateful.

  12. I agree with Matt with one exception.
    If my activities require me to kick down a local government stooges door in the middle of the night and put holes in them. I want the plates..
    Planning as much as possible to account for possibilities, you have to be prepared for the chance that they have a pistol by the bed and get off a shot.
    Very specific set of circumstances and I think that means you would only pick up plates if you have a lot of other things squared away.

    The observation on medical treatment is very true, but I think that leads us to a different discussion that starts with “how do we address that?”

    • Johnny Paratrooper

      ^This dude fucks.

    • I wish I knew a surgeon in my neighborhood, but I don’t. My starting point is that if I get shot post-SHTF I’m probably a dead man, now or tomorrow, and no good to my family. Not getting shot is job #1, and that means thinking like a VC Ninja, not a battle-rattle Robocop. I can’t see any situation where I need to go full frontal against any .gov fortress. No way. If it comes to that, I’ll be looking at it as a total sacrifice one-way mission for some Higher Purpose where I figure I’m not coming out, and I really can’t envision that scenario. But you never know…

  13. I won’t dive into the debate over whether you should or should not wear plates, like everything else – tailor your gear/equipment for the situation and the mission. I will say that I have worn various styles of plates for the better part of the last 18 years, in both “high profile” and “low profile” configurations. I would also note that I have more than a few colleagues that are still upright due to their plates being worn.
    I found that the more I operated in armor, the more I favored the slick plate carriers ( bare bones, no frills). I could run them under a cover shirt if the mission called for it or add a rack system over the top with whatever mission essential gear was called for. In a word, it was a versatile option.
    As far as the plates themselves, steel plates are cheap and will take a ton of kinetic abuse. The newer ceramic and composite plates are nice and light but can be very expensive and for the most part don’t have the multi-strike capability of their steel cousins.
    You can’t go wrong with the PIG carriers, Mayflower, Blue Force Gear or even the old slick Blackhawk carriers (like $40 bucks).

    Will I sport hard plates if I am conducting a recce up in the hills or setting up an OP? Probably not. Will I sport plates if I am going to extract a loved one from the Leroy Jenkins gang headquarters? Yep……it gives me an advantage, and really that is all I ask of any of my equipment.

    • Thank God for such good sense, an experienced thinking man’s response: “tailor your gear/equipment for the situation and the mission.”

      As with so many questions, the answer is, “It depends.”

  14. John Remsdad III

    I bought a basic carrier and level III+ plates from https://www.ar500armor.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?cat=&p=2&q=level+iiia

  15. When I was running non-uniformed operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, there were situations when I wouldn’t wear armor, situations when I would wear a covert plate carrier under normal clothing, and situations when the PC or CIRAS was outside the clothes with a chest rig over it.
    Nothing works 100% of the time-there are times and places when armor is not appropriate, and times and places when you’d better have it. Helmets are the same. If you are overtly carrying a long gun, wearing web gear, and running chicken plates, a helmet is generally appropriate.
    Medical care may or may not be available. Folks have survived battlefield injuries for thousands of years before modern surgery was available. Do what you can with what you have-a gunshot is not a reason to abandon all hope. Some will be beyond your ability or someone else’s ability to fix-others won’t.
    If you’re an out-of-shape fuck that can’t handle another fifteen pounds of armor, then your immediate course of action is to fix your diet and start exercising-like yesterday. Being fit and strong pays immediate dividends in all aspects of life.

  16. Read all the comments; Lot of good thoughts…

    I wear a helmet and full gear when I ride my motorcycle. It may save me. It may not. Other riders make the choice to wear less. It’s their choice; I respect it, but not the choice I’d make. I figure if I do go down on a ride, I’d rather have a few more percentage points in my favor towards survivability than not.

    I’m in reasonable shape. I do my PT. I’m not a door kicker. But after my 5th semi-auto, my 3rd Stoner Platform, my second shotgun, do I need another firearm, or would it pay to diversify and have an armor option?

    I wouldn’t wear plates for day to day, or really more often than training or PT, but wouldn’t I potentially be better off for having the option than not having the option? I can always opt for a more clandestine stance ala John Mosby, or I can suit up if needed.

    Mark me down for the plates. If only to change up my range day.

  17. I agree that mobility trumps armor if one is hoofing it to a bug-out location or moving against proactively ID’d hostiles.

    However, I must cautiously disagree with Mr. Bracken’s conclusion regarding the usefulness of armor overall, in that it did not address the issue of home defense against unaffiliated criminal rabble, which I see as being progressively more likely in the space between decline and collapse. For those of us with young children or a pregnant woman under our protection, this severely limits one’s options and renders the question of mobility more or less moot.

    Speaking for my own situation, the wife and kids are not going to leap from their beds at the sound of breaking glass, slip out the back door right behind me, melt into the night like ghosts, and execute a bug-out plan with whatever we managed to grab on the way out. If someone reading this has a 2 year old or even 10 year old or a pregnant woman who really are that ninja, kudos to you for drilling them so spectacticularly well.

    The rest of us aren’t going anywhere on short notice. One way or another, what happens in the home is going to stay in the home.

    Under those circumstances I don’t see much downside to armor. Yes, I fully recognize that there is still a significant likelihood of getting fatally shot, but even if that’s how it goes down, armor increases odds of lasting long enough to prevent uninvited guests from ever strolling past my bled-out carcass to reach those who matter more than I.

    I am old enough that I am not the future anymore, and I suspect that the same probably applies to most of those reading this. Those of us raising families who’ve not yet made peace with being right behind the guard dogs in order of expendability should reflect on priorities.

    Even so, armor is still optional. Unless of course you don’t have it.

    …and as someone noted in a previous post, those looking for options late in the game will likely be SOL. I’ve been seeing congresscritters toss about armor ban bills for years now. Eventually one will stick. I like options.

    So having said all that, I’d love to hear some recommendations on plates, but according to my limited understanding, there’s not much point shopping for carriers until one knows thickness, cut, etc of one’s plates.

  18. About ten years ago I started to learn the tomahawk. I’ve since purchased several, my favorite being the RMJ Tactical, have a couple. Level III soft vests dont slow these Hawks down. Cuz slash rip.

    I’ve got my eye on a custom hawk, my shoot partner the retired SF, Col, has two stunning Hawks custom made buy a guy in the mid west. his troops out of Kanadhar all carried them. While I like everything about the RMJ, John’s Hawks are not only works of art, they just handle, better balanced. I’m saving for one.

    The reason I mention the tomahawk is over lunch yesterday, my friend told me their starting to run into bangers carry Hawks.

    Kinda like Bikers carrying Ball Peen Hammers. Thought I’d share that.

    Dirk

  19. Why you need body armor: surviving wrecks on 2 wheels or eff’ing tiny cars. Having some soft 3a armor that is comfortable enough to wear always make a squishy jell-o man full of popsickle sticks a tougher casualty for blunt force and penetrating bits. Disagree that surviving firearm wounds is unlikely without a trauma unit and helo evac. Being not-100% in 60 days following such injury without modern treatment is a given, but mere survival, bah. 9mm 115grain fmj and .22lr bulk are the most common weapons and ammo that are out there in quantity (due to cheapness), so why not have a vest that can catch them, along with shotgun pellets and other non-exotics. Avoid incoming rifle fire, and suppress with return fire, if possible. Surplus vests in very nice condition have been available ~$200 over the past decade. If you live in a place where ammo and armor require ID or are prohibited, move from that place: it’s a genocide staging area.
    There are lightweight very comfortable shirts and vests that are GREAT for countering slashing blades and somewhat catch an icepick. Trade some cash for an upgraded wound profile (bruises instead of gaping spurting thing). Surprise! The best ones are exported from the UK. When guns are effectively suppressed (stop-n-frisk, 10 year minimum for possession), blades become the preferred weapon, leading to “Knife control”, like in Londinistan.

  20. Alfred E. Neuman

    Reblogged this on FOR GOD AND COUNTRY.

  21. Johnny Paratrooper

    This.
    If you’re an out-of-shape fuck that can’t handle another fifteen pounds of armor, then your immediate course of action is to fix your diet and start exercising-like yesterday. Being fit and strong pays immediate dividends in all aspects of life.
    -Berglander

  22. lastmanstanding

    No BA for me.

    I am considering night vision. Any recommendations gents?

  23. Good discussion. Having worn both, obviously wearing plates sucks. I have soft armor behind my rifle plates. I also have a seperare set of soft body armor. If I’m wearing a jacket the soft armor is concealable. If it comes to the poor that I feel like it’s necessary to wear my soft body armor, I’m probably not leaving my house anyways so it really doesn’t matter much.

    I guess the point being you should have both in your house. Or car.

  24. I’ve spent several years working in both soft and hard armor. I have a few of each and think they have value. A couple of observations…

    Having armor gives you options you don’t have otherwise. The most obvious being you can choose to wear it or not. If you don’t have it that option isn’t available to you. If you have it and only wear it as you drive across town as you bug out it provides you a degree of protection you don’t have without it. For that matter you could just hand a single plate to every passenger and they could wedge it between them and the door.

    As a police officer and trainer we have quite a few people who can’t get into their head the concept of transitioning to other target areas if center mass shots aren’t working. Last year in some simunitions training we had several officers empty three magazines into the chest of their attacker who was visibly wearing plates over his clothing. This being the day after live fire training where we worked weapon transitions and failure drills. (mags were loaded with only 5 rounds each due to the cost of simunitions marker rounds.). If trained officers have a hard time with that the average idiot will probably be worse.

    As has been said, if you are pretty well set logistically I’d add it to the list.

  25. It’s better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, much the same with quite a few things I own. Examples are many, “why do you have…” Because I fucking do, ok? But, I’m old, so what the fuck do I know? How’s that old saying go? Oh yeah…
    “…be wary of old guys in a profession that usually kills the young”.
    I’m old, so what the fuck do I know?

  26. deacon matson

    I bought the AR500 plates and carrier for PT. Pair that with regular rucking and you get the idea. Several guys in my suburban nightmare do this with me. My neighbors are used to it after a couple of years.

    I have no intention of being a mall ninja – ever. I will however put it in my truck along with a rifle if I’m moving through or plan to be near trouble at a large scale. Appropriate tools in a toolbox. Aside from that, it’s just another heavy object that I lift on a regular basis.

    As for EDC? I carry where appropriate and concealed means concealed. Be the shadow, be the gray man. Be so unassuming that you are not worth the trouble.

  27. “Being fit and strong pays immediate dividends in all aspects of life.”
    –Berglander

    That’s an absolute truth!